Special Ops Paintball: .50 Caliber - Special Ops Paintball

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.50 Caliber The new standard?

#16 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:39 PM

Ok, so they are trying. BUt none of us have seen any real physical proof or held one to test for ourselves. So sorry if we are sticking to what we know and have seen with our own eyes. >_> I know you are happy they are going into this tech. That is great. New technology is always awesome. But that doesn't mean it works or has been proven to work yet. He can say all he wants about how he created a new ball and it does x and x, but until we see actual proof or shoot one ourselves, it is all just smoke and mirrors.

I have fired .50 balls, i have seen how they work and react. So until i am shown otherwise, i will hold my beliefs. We are on a free thinking fforum. We are allowed to have differeing opinions on things. :dodgy:

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#17 User is offline   Pirate 

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:39 PM

View PostTim Burton, on Jul 21 2009, 01:07 AM, said:

It seems the guys saying this is the revolution have a well respected reputation.

The Gardners have a respected reputation?

.50cal paintballs are dumb. No one will want to switch their guns, barrels, and loaders over to a new size so they can get more balls in a case to bounce off people.
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#18 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:51 PM

View PostPirate, on Jul 21 2009, 11:39 PM, said:

View PostTim Burton, on Jul 21 2009, 01:07 AM, said:

It seems the guys saying this is the revolution have a well respected reputation.

The Gardners have a respected reputation?


Quote

.50cal paintballs are dumb. No one will want to switch their guns, barrels, and loaders over to a new size so they can get more balls in a case to bounce off people.



While I don't know them, after reading a number of forums, even people who downplay the caliber, still say he and Richard are well respected and that if they say it, they mean it.

I am not big into PB. I enjoy it, but I don't live it. In fact I have taken off about 4 months of playing due to a bad experience, an experience that included my brother getting scarred on the back of his neck due to a speedballer shooting a 460fps.



Quote

.50cal paintballs are dumb. No one will want to switch their guns, barrels, and loaders over to a new size so they can get more balls in a case to bounce off people.


Well, come October we will know if the balls bounce....
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#19 User is offline   Viherkogen 

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 05:50 AM

As much as I would like to believe that a better paintball is going to replace our .68 norm, I doubt the move will be made. Smartparts would not have recently made two new .68 markers if they new the caliber is dead. From what I've read on MCB and longer press releases, the new .50 paint is going to be used as a cheaper alternative for rec ballers and new airsoft converts (compared to .68) without sacrificing the better properties of range and breaks. If you can reduce price while retaining satisfactory results, you'll see many more people begining to play, those who play little playing more, and regular players able to play more recball, practice, and small games amongst friends.
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#20 User is offline   HYPESNIPE 

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 09:26 AM

Quote

No, your objection was how do we know if it is splatter. It is an unknown, because we don't know how it would splatter.

It is obvious a hit would be a smaller blob.

Let me reiterate, splatter would look more like a hit using .50 than it would be with .68. And if you were at a game where both were being used, it would be much harder to determine what's .68 splatter and what's a .50 hit. Just to clear this up, my point ISN'T how it'll splatter, it ISN'T how it'll break, but IT IS about the volume of paint and making good calls as a referee when what's considered a hit is qualitative.

Quote

Again, this is an assumption that can't be presently proved. You are assuming they are using the same formula.

If I told you that a company was coming out with what is a low calorie chocolate that tastes like chocolate that doesn't melt at regular tempertures and you responded, "Chocolate melts at 86 degrees and to make it otherwise would make it too expensive."

You'd be wrong: http://www.guardian....-melt-chocolate


Yup. You're right. Why wouldn't we want to change the formula to paintballs so they don't melt, they just get bubbly :ninja:

Changing a paintball formula is complicated. The paint has have the right viscosity and density, the shell has to be hard enough to break on impact, yet not explode from the bolt hitting it. And by claiming that they will change the formula would make it MORE expensive. Don't you think that quality companies are already using materials that have the quality we need and the low cost to drive a profit? Therefore, to change the formula would mean to either A) use cheaper, lower quality ingredients or B)use more expensive, quality ingredients. Selling it in high volume is negatable because with the .68, it uses more material, but with the .50, there are more per package, and by some surface area and some simple calculations, you could calculate which is more cost efficient, but at this point in time it is not the focus.

/rant. /caring about this thread




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#21 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 10:46 PM

View PostViherkogen, on Jul 22 2009, 05:50 AM, said:

As much as I would like to believe that a better paintball is going to replace our .68 norm, I doubt the move will be made. Smartparts would not have recently made two new .68 markers if they new the caliber is dead. From what I've read on MCB and longer press releases, the new .50 paint is going to be used as a cheaper alternative for rec ballers and new airsoft converts (compared to .68) without sacrificing the better properties of range and breaks. I



This is a very good point. I am unsure why SP would make a new gun. Especially since Gardner is in on it. Possibly trying to bridge the time between the two?

Quote

Richmond Italia has formed a creative union with Bill and Adam Gardner of Smart Parts,


http://www.propaintb...m-announcement/


Quote

f you can reduce price while retaining satisfactory results, you'll see many more people begining to play, those who play little playing more, and regular players able to play more recball, practice, and small games amongst friends.



Quote

Let me reiterate, splatter would look more like a hit using .50 than it would be with .68. And if you were at a game where both were being used, it would be much harder to determine what's .68 splatter and what's a .50 hit. Just to clear this up, my point ISN'T how it'll splatter, it ISN'T how it'll break, but IT IS about the volume of paint and making good calls as a referee when what's considered a hit is qualitative.


True, but less than the splatter/hit issue is the larger one. What if the round flies farther? If the round flies farther and more accurate, I definitely expect to see scenarios limit what can be used at their games.

As with my smooth-bore/rifled-bore analogy, people won't like playing witha .68 when guys on the other team are shooting a .50 that can reach out another 20 yards and be more accurate.

I guess one way to tell the difference is different color paint. Pink for .50 and green for .68. See a small amount of pink your out, see a small amount of green you're in.


Quote

Yup. You're right. Why wouldn't we want to change the formula to paintballs so they don't melt, they just get bubbly :)

Changing a paintball formula is complicated. The paint has have the right viscosity and density, the shell has to be hard enough to break on impact, yet not explode from the bolt hitting it. And by claiming that they will change the formula would make it MORE expensive. Don't you think that quality companies are already using materials that have the quality we need and the low cost to drive a profit? Therefore, to change the formula would mean to either A) use cheaper, lower quality ingredients or B)use more expensive, quality ingredients.


All sarcasm aside, this is a very good point. As a person who has been a project manager in bringing products to market and partially through my MBA, quality chemicals do not necessarily mean higher price. There could be additional factors. Pure cane sugar (high quality) is actually cheaper than HFC syrup (Low Quality), except the tariffs added to importation to protect a few farmers in LA and HI makes PCS higher in price.

I will absolutely agree with you, if they can find better chemicals, why hasn't other companies? Outside of a patent issue, I can't think of why they wouldn't transition to a better material, especially if it is cheaper.

I really hope that they open up the information flood gates soon. While, bringing the product to market at the WC sounds great, I'd think they'd want to be building hype through-out the period to the game.
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#22 User is offline   Eggmoe 

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 11:49 PM

What about RAM (Real Action Marker), they already have .43 caliber paintballs, with casings like a real bullet that eject. Pretty cool IMO.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=B1wahzV2lIE
Rap4 has some crazy different balls too.
http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/paintball...tiles-c-23.html

Soo.... I'm confused. Whats new?
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#23 User is offline   blackcelldrumr15 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 12:18 AM

Eggmoe, I'll tell you now before the fire starts here...

RAP4 isn't know for their quality products and is often referred to as cRAP4 because of their poor quality. Yes they make those products, but don't expect to be able to use any of them smaller than .68 cal at any organized field. Because of insurance reasons they can't allow it on the field.

Playing outlaw only? Using it would be fine as long as everyone agreed to the use of said products.

Getting back to the discussion. Wouldn't goggles and other safety gear have to be revamped also in order to keep us safe? Tolerances for goggles would have to be tighter in order to not let the smaller .50 cal balls through...

Sounds like too pricey of a process for the sport to go through to really be worth while...
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#24 User is offline   chinstrap 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 06:35 AM

View Postblackcelldrumr15, on Jul 23 2009, 03:18 AM, said:

Getting back to the discussion. Wouldn't goggles and other safety gear have to be revamped also in order to keep us safe? Tolerances for goggles would have to be tighter in order to not let the smaller .50 cal balls through...

Sounds like too pricey of a process for the sport to go through to really be worth while...


Yep.
Insurance companies will also have to be willing to amend their contracts.

This post has been edited by chinstrap: 23 July 2009 - 06:43 AM

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#25 User is offline   CapnStank 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:27 AM

I find it funny about how everyone's assumptions were SOOOO wrong.

Anyone remember this thread?
http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index...howtopic=170680
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#26 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 11:53 AM

I would much rather see a better .68 ball, or rather the technology to make our current paint cheaper or something like that. I'm not buying a new set up for smaller paint. No way.
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#27 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 03:16 PM

View PostStealingYerMail, on Jul 23 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

I would much rather see a better .68 ball, or rather the technology to make our current paint cheaper or something like that. I'm not buying a new set up for smaller paint. No way.



I don't care about the size. I just want more accuracy. I shoot pretty well with a real gun, but I can't tell you how many times I lined up a long shot only to have it move to the side by 6 inches and thereby missing the target.
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#28 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 03:41 PM

I hear you for sure, believe me I would want more accuracy as well. But in all honesty, I get some pretty damn good chrono readings as-is, and get some sick accuracy My Borg can put a ball on a ball quite a ways away. I had some Diablo Heat pull some right angle turns this past Tuesday, but it was breezy, my barrel tip had dirt in it, and it was Heat.

However taking long shots is still a matter of skill. You need to really know your gear and understand it to really long ball. You need to get a break, yeah, but for the whole "bounce/break" thing to happen, you still have to hit them first. Paintball guns are limited, especially in range, but skill can somewhat overcome that limitation.

I would rather EVERYONE play with the limited range of a .68 ball as opposed to some people who can afford a new set up or whatever, and having a range advantage over people with older gear or whatever. The First Strike is one thing... only certain set ups can accept it, and it's a very unique thing at this point. Having a team with 10 people or whatever that have extra range is slightly different.

I support cheaper/more consistent/better/whatever paint for sure. But this sudden over-haul could split up the paintball community in a sense (if it even materializes, that is).

This post has been edited by StealingYerMail: 23 July 2009 - 03:45 PM

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#29 User is offline   CapnStank 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 05:44 PM

I actually plan to really follow this. I use my Phantom 100% now and have been looking for something that can through more paint in the near future. If there is a 'revolution' coming I'll definately take the chance once 50cal comes out.

What I'm worried about though is SP's role in all this. I hope they don't monopolize it and prevent other companies from providing 50cal markers. I will never buy SP so I don't want them to ruin this fun.
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#30 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 06:02 PM

View PostCapnStank, on Jul 23 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

I actually plan to really follow this. I use my Phantom 100% now and have been looking for something that can through more paint in the near future. If there is a 'revolution' coming I'll definately take the chance once 50cal comes out.

What I'm worried about though is SP's role in all this. I hope they don't monopolize it and prevent other companies from providing 50cal markers. I will never buy SP so I don't want them to ruin this fun.

SP isn't that bad.
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