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Obama Gonna Win? Retrothread #14 Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 08:25 PM

Now Vortex, this is no fun! You need an explaination so everyone can argue! This is your thread! sorta...
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#17 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 08:38 PM

View PostThe Stuntman, on 27 August 2011 - 02:47 PM, said:

For the record - I voted for McCain last time, but I may be forced to go with Obama this time if the GOP nominates anyone other than Romney.


I would have figured you'd be good with Ron Paul.

Everyone acts like he has no chance, but he did take second in the Iowa straw poll, far ahead of a lot of the supposed "front runners." Granted the latest polls haven't shown him up there, but I really do think he's got a better chance than the media wants to give him credit for.

It's anyone's candidate at this early into it, but I really like Ron Paul and his libertarian leaning ideas. So far, he's got my vote as the best candidate from either party.

This post has been edited by Thalion: 27 August 2011 - 08:41 PM

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#18 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 08:44 PM

Haven't heard much about RP in a while.

This is odd, by next year's election, my opinion will actually matter as I will be able to vote...
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#19 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 08:57 PM

I'm sure someone will accuse me of wearing a tin foil hat, but I think the reason we don't hear about Ron Paul as much is because the media and most of the establishment of both parties is horrified of him -- He's a true believer in what he says, unlike most in politics.

Or in other words, the media reports on who they want to either generate controversy with or who they want to support. Which is why you hear about Bachmann (controversy) and Romney (the media wants him because if he gets in, the status quo is unchanged)
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#20 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 09:01 PM

Meh, I'm more of an armadillo shell guy myself. And i completely agree with that statement...
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#21 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 09:31 PM

View PostThalion, on 27 August 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

I'm sure someone will accuse me of wearing a tin foil hat, but I think the reason we don't hear about Ron Paul as much is because the media and most of the establishment of both parties is horrified of him -- He's a true believer in what he says, unlike most in politics.

Or in other words, the media reports on who they want to either generate controversy with or who they want to support. Which is why you hear about Bachmann (controversy) and Romney (the media wants him because if he gets in, the status quo is unchanged)

Hmmmm.... I think its more about him having decent general principles, but he starts to sound a little crazy when he starts talking specifics.
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#22 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:22 PM

I wanna vote for a republican I can actually believe gives a crap about anyone who makes less than $100,000/year.
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#23 User is offline   Tenacious221 

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:50 AM

View PostI.K.E., on 29 August 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

I wanna vote for a republican I can actually believe gives a crap about anyone who makes less than $100,000/year.


Why does it have to be a republican? You vote with whoever lines up best with what you think needs to be done to fix the country.

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#24 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:28 AM

View PostTenacious221, on 30 August 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

View PostI.K.E., on 29 August 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

I wanna vote for a republican I can actually believe gives a crap about anyone who makes less than $100,000/year.


Why does it have to be a republican? You should vote with whoever lines up best with what you think needs to be done to fix the country.

-Tenacious


Fixed.

Obama may very well win but only because the Republicans are a cluster right now. I lean to Mitt Romney as my favorite, but I wonder if America can elect a Mormon (:dodgy:... maybe). I want to like Ron Paul but he has a tendency to be a bit of a whackjob imo, not on the level of Howard Dean crazy, but still a little off.

This post has been edited by ger: 30 August 2011 - 09:28 AM

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#25 User is offline   Eagle Eye 

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:34 PM

I'm on the same boat with Romney, IF he ever makes it past the primaries. As for electing a Mormon, hell race was defeated last election, and women are making a larger showing, anything can happen. All the old rules of being an old fart white guy with questionable military background have been broken it seems,
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#26 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 04:36 PM

View PostTenacious221, on 30 August 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

View PostI.K.E., on 29 August 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

I wanna vote for a republican I can actually believe gives a crap about anyone who makes less than $100,000/year.


Why does it have to be a republican? You vote with whoever lines up best with what you think needs to be done to fix the country.

-Tenacious


My point was simply that they don't exist. Republicans care only about people who have money, lots of money.

I don't have much nice to say for Democrats either. I happen to think that they do a better job of recognizing the needs of people who make less money, but they suck at doing anything worthwhile about it. When I think of the last 8 years (the back and forth of control between both groups) I find more pluses on the Democrat side. One of which was the credit card thing. Requires credit card companies to be more up front about the fact that it will take forever to pay the dang things off. While I'm not excited about Obamacare, it at least has people TALKING about ways to do things differently. I'm trying to think of anything the republicans have done that wasn't just to support big business or rich people.

Socially, I agree more with republicans. Not a fan of gun control, anti abortion, etc. Its too bad they're just buttholes at the same time.
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#27 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:51 PM

This is where you're wrong IKE...

Republicans care about nobody, period. The Democrats equally care for nobody, period.

They all are out for themselves. The Democrats disguise their policy as being "for the little guy" but the truth is they maintain it and almost perpetuate poverty for the sake of having more voters going for their rhetoric. Don't believe me? Check out LBJ's war on poverty, and how it's done. No new social program designed to help the poor has done anything to reduce poverty (ie -actually solve the problem).

I'm not rich by anyone's standards (well, anyone in the US. I'm sure third world Africa would disagree). The Democrats don't help me in the slightest. Neither do the Republicans. But at least the Republicans don't actively hurt me (mostly) with their policy.
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#28 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:25 PM

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.thedailys...---the-top-tier

Obama will win unless,

1. Another Dem challenges him in the primaries

2. The GOP finds somebody who isn't from the Cantwin family. ie. Michelle Cantwin, Mitt Cantwin.

Although they might have something with Rick Perry, as terrifying as that might seem. Americans love the whole cowboy thing. As artificial as it may be.

I'm really getting sick of my two choices being Coke and Pepsi. The Republicans are just as keen to get the country stuck in military adventures and balloon the size and power of government and the Democrats are just as enslaved to special interests as the Republicans and don't mind shredding up your rights when it benefits them. What we need is someone who will stand between the representatives of the Duopoly on debate night and say, "Both of these people are lying to you."

But both parties have had a hand in setting all sorts of traps for a potential third-party candidate. Ross Perot got the closest in 1992. You can watch the debate on Google Video. He was made Clinton and Bush sweat by bring up issues neither of those two wanted to talk about because both parties had a hand in creating them, like the debt, outsourcing etc. Of course afterwards the bipartisan presidential debate commission" took over the process from the League of Women Voters who previously organized the presidential debates and ensured the Republican candidate gets an automatic berth, the Democrat gets an automatic birth and any other contenders must raise an absurd amount of money to have his or her voice heard. It's crooked at the local level too. Look up your local ballot access laws. The two parties will argue that they don't want any "silly" candidates running. "Why, if we let just anyone run, there'd be a 'No Pants on Mondays' candidate. It'd be chaos!" Ah yes, limit the choices of the voters. That's democracy folks!
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#29 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:19 PM

http://www.slate.com/id/2302761

What about this guy?

Or are common-sense positions like, "oil companies should have a reservoir of resources for immediate cleanup" and "sunlight cures and heals" (in relation to campaign contributors) "too radical," for the GOP (or rather the GOP's donors?)
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#30 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:32 PM

View PostThalion, on 30 August 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

This is where you're wrong IKE...

Republicans care about nobody, period. The Democrats equally care for nobody, period.

They all are out for themselves. The Democrats disguise their policy as being "for the little guy" but the truth is they maintain it and almost perpetuate poverty for the sake of having more voters going for their rhetoric. Don't believe me? Check out LBJ's war on poverty, and how it's done. No new social program designed to help the poor has done anything to reduce poverty (ie -actually solve the problem).

I'm not rich by anyone's standards (well, anyone in the US. I'm sure third world Africa would disagree). The Democrats don't help me in the slightest. Neither do the Republicans. But at least the Republicans don't actively hurt me (mostly) with their policy.


I agree that the Democrats don't actually care about us. As far as Republicans "actively" hurting us, you bet they do. Every time they move to enrich themselves, they have to take something away from us. So the Democrats keep poor people poor? The Republicans are doing everything they can to shrink the middle class.

We're both right, and both wrong. No one gives a crap about us. They just want our votes. They want our money. So people get ticked off and vote for change. They vote in the democrats, and nothing much happens. Then they vote in republicans. Nothing much happens. They vote in the TeaParty. Nothing at all happens.

MaDuce is right about the 3rd party stuff. That would be a refreshing change. The only thing he's wrong about is the fact that no matter what organization is doing whatever to prevent it, if people ACTUALLY wanted a 3rd party, there would be one.

But in the end...party or no party... I hold slim hope that anyone in politics is actually going to get something worthwhile accomplished. Who's to blame? We are. Voters. No one seems able to align behind someone who is more about reality than politics. Simple stuff that just plain makes sense.

Because I'm a teacher, I tend to judge an overall candidate by their take on education. So far, I've not seen much intelligence in the field of candidates. All of 'em are jumping on the stupid NCLB train (Including Obama) thinking that you can run schools like businesses, that scores can be mandated and regulated, that children are commodities. Well, anyone with any sense knows that any kid on any given day can fail any given test for any number of reasons, 90% of which are beyond the control of teachers! Yet we should be judged on such? That kind of stupidity applied in all aspects of governance explains why our economy is the way it is, why congress can't work out intelligent solutions to important problems, and why voting for the same old crap is a waste of time.
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