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Racism and Paintball Over a team name? Dirty Acronym? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Delta Force Zero 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:14 PM

I am, was the captain of a team called "The German Army", until four days ago. Our team was recreationally and competitively based, and we chose German Army because there were so many WW2 oriented games, we figured we'd always play for the German side, thus the name. We'll the first month or two were great, lots of support from people and what not, and then, all of a sudden, I get a single email. It say's "YOU ARE A BUNCH OF BOINKING JEW HATING RACIST FATHERLESS MEN!" I was stunned by the email, and sent a message back to the sender stating that we were not associtated with the Nazi Army in any way (it even states this on the front page of our website in big, bold verdana fonted letters!!). Well, I don't hear from him or anyone else for a good 12 days. Then, my guestbook and email are litteraly SWAMPED with emails with the similar title, and all different messages inside them, stating how we hate Jewish people and what not. I responded by posting another article saying that: We were never, and will never have anything to do with the Nazi Army. We were %100 against the beliefs of the Nazi Party, and supporting them would be disrespectfull and offensive to both members of our team, and some members of MY family. This only draws in more hate mail, and some of the things I read were extremely good at putting me in a very depressed mood. So, we changed the name and everything on the site, and get emails saying "That'll show ya, you Nazi's!" still! Reading further into the emails, I noticed that a lot of the senders were fellow paintballers (I could easily tell just by the terms they used), and thought "How can this be happening, and why?". I am annoyed, hurt, confused, and extremely outraged by this. I mean, at D-Day, there are unit's that were based after WW2 units, and no one gets mad. And again, DDAY IS FOR FUN TO!!! JUST LIKE MY TEAM!!! So we are now the D.E.C.C., or Dangerously Effective Combat Controllers, and believe me, I truly hate the name. So this being said, anyone else had similar expirences? Let me know. -Delta
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#2 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:18 PM

Why do you care so much what others think? Name your team whatever the hell you want and let the others go to hell. You know you aren't anti-semitic, that's all that matters.
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#3 User is offline   Delta Force Zero 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:24 PM

It was mainly because they were posting in our guestbook, and leaving absoloutely horrible messages, and when we'd try to get kids to join, there parents would take one look at it, and the answer would be no. We'd delete them, and it'd be there within the next day. Do these people try to harass me for the fun? It really just is totally... err... out of hand at best. I mean, there is nothing I can do to stop this either. Email isn't required, and it's open to anyone (that can't be changed) so they just keep posting and posting and posting. It's almost mentally damaging when I go to delete some of the horrible thigns that they said.
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#4 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:28 PM

Well that sucks. But all it takes for some people to go off the deep end is an implied association. Calling yourselves "The German Army" is about as short of a connection as you need.

I've been shaving my head for many years. I've been called a skinhead on more than one occasion. But I owned a shirt that seemed to cause me to hear that more often.

There's a company called Primal Wear that makes cycling clothing. I had purchased one of their tees called Tread head. The image was of a ram skull and the horns were made to look like bike tires. Most people failed to see the detail of the horns, especially in low light. I made sure not to wear it in the dark. I thought nothing of it, my friends all knew I wasn't a skinhead in any way, shape or form. The bald head and ram skull were enough to cause many people to jump tot he wrong conclusion.
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#5 User is offline   Small Block 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:29 PM

That's BS! You choose a name you like and stand by it. Who cares what others think, don't put up with that crap and defend what you feel/think is right.

You know who you are and what you believe and that's all that counts.

Change your forum hosting or set ups so that you need to use an email and have to be activated .
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#6 User is offline   Delta Force Zero 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:31 PM

View PostSmall Block, on Nov 5 2007, 10:29 PM, said:

That's BS! You choose a name you like and stand by it. Who cares what others think, don't put up with that crap and defend what you feel/think is right.

You know who you are and what you believe and that's all that counts.

Change your forum hosting or set ups so that you need to use an email and have to be activated .

I would do that, but the forum and guestbook are different things. The guestbook is open to anyone who views the site, and the forum is for private/members. And because we are a bunch of kids without any money, we can't pay for a real site at the moment, and use free hosting. That just adds to our problem.
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You could be really nice and sign our guestbook so we can get 1000 signatures, and get our site for free!

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#7 User is offline   QUEEG 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:35 PM

People are wayyyy too quick to judge, and total idiots!
If you like Germans, you're a nazi, if you like Russians, you're a commie.
Screw 'em.
I get called a nazi alot. Especially last year, when I was reading a nazi book.
Imagine a skinny kid with a camo jacket and blonde hair and blue eyes sitting alone reading a nazi book and you've got the reason people judged me so quick.
I was simply interested.
People eventually got the point and left me alone. I can get away with the image now though.
Anyways, that really stinks, but I still wouldn't change the name.

This post has been edited by QUEEG: 05 November 2007 - 09:35 PM


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#8 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:35 PM

I'll say the obvious: there are a LOT of uninformed or overreactive people out there. However, I DO see both sides. From a gameplay perspective, someone has to be the bad guys, and in this case the bad guys had a lot of the coolest stuff during the war. From a history perspective, what the Nazis did was awful, beyond horrible. What they fail to realize was that the common soldier usually had little or no knowledge of what went on in Hitler's camps, and that roleplay helps us remember history. What you probably fail to realize is that people still have a very strong, visceral reactions to such things, because those bits a history have fortunately NOT been forgotten or minimized.

So what could you have done? Perhaps a differently worded and more strongly presented anti-Nazi statement would have helped stem the tide. That wouldn't stop them all, of course. However, I suspect you were the target of an organized campaign, due to how suddenly it came and went. A properly presented statement would have probably prevented the campaign from taking root. Chalk it up to forum sensationalism. We have seen similar things here, such as when people mobilize to shoot down anti-paintball legislation. Such widespread communication has both good and bad effects. This is one of the bad ones.

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#9 User is offline   Philipp122 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:36 PM

Look, people are idiots. You probably don't realize that the majority of this nation doesn't know a thing about WWII. People love to hate, so when they hear Germany, they think Nazis because their narrow-mindedness and complete ignorance makes them think that people in Germany dislike Jews, worship Hitler, or that there are still Nazis. They don't realize that just because the Nazis were stationed in Germany doesn't mean they were German. They don't realize that the only reason people followed Hitler at first was because he promised them world peace.

No, as soon as they hear the word Nazi in the same sentence as Germany in grade-school, they immediately begin with the discrimination. If you think you have it bad, try being German and living here in America where the teachers don't teach you what you need to know for crap. Just ignore them. If they actually associate the name of a paintball team with religious discrimination, they fail at life. I don't see what happened to so many people that makes them so stupid, ignorant, and narrow-minded, but the smart, open-minded fellows have to deal with it.

So basically, just ignore them. They fail at life. Miserably. Anyone who would write an e-mail like that should definitely not be playing paintball because paintball requires some common sense and the use of your brain, an exercise they obviously don't partake in.

This post has been edited by Philipp122: 05 November 2007 - 09:37 PM

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#10 User is offline   Small Block 

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:40 PM

View PostPuzuma, on Nov 5 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

I've been shaving my head for many years. I've been called a skinhead on more than one occasion.


I'd just like to quickly point out that not all skinheads are racist. Look up S.H.A.R.P. skinheads.

View PostDelta Force Zero, on Nov 5 2007, 11:31 PM, said:

View PostSmall Block, on Nov 5 2007, 10:29 PM, said:

That's BS! You choose a name you like and stand by it. Who cares what others think, don't put up with that crap and defend what you feel/think is right.

You know who you are and what you believe and that's all that counts.

Change your forum hosting or set ups so that you need to use an email and have to be activated .

I would do that, but the forum and guestbook are different things. The guestbook is open to anyone who views the site, and the forum is for private/members. And because we are a bunch of kids without any money, we can't pay for a real site at the moment, and use free hosting. That just adds to our problem.


Is there anyway you can eliminate the guest book? Leave a email addy for anyone interested in contacting you for real reasons. Just a thought. After that if anything like the past comes up just delete it without ever reading it.

Good luck man, but I think you should stand your ground. Too many people give in far too easy anymore.
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#11 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 02:01 AM

View PostPuzuma, on Nov 5 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

Well that sucks. But all it takes for some people to go off the deep end is an implied association. Calling yourselves "The German Army" is about as short of a connection as you need.

I've been shaving my head for many years. I've been called a skinhead on more than one occasion. But I owned a shirt that seemed to cause me to hear that more often.

There's a company called Primal Wear that makes cycling clothing. I had purchased one of their tees called Tread head. The image was of a ram skull and the horns were made to look like bike tires. Most people failed to see the detail of the horns, especially in low light. I made sure not to wear it in the dark. I thought nothing of it, my friends all knew I wasn't a skinhead in any way, shape or form. The bald head and ram skull were enough to cause many people to jump tot he wrong conclusion.


I've run into that too, for about 90% the same reasons...lol...

BOT....

10-1, the idiots that did that on your guestbook are likely pbNation-ites with nothing better to do, than spam your guestbook. If you ever put your team's website in a forum link, that's how it got around. Nationites are real morons and will recruit others at the bottom of the gene pool to ridicule, demean or otherwise harass people...just for the sake of doing it. They are E-Thugs of the lowest order...

Now my personal suggestion:

With anything involving "German" in the Paintball/MilSim genre, you need to understand that this is going to happen. That is something that occurred in history that garners harsh and ill-feelings [and with good reason] towards that Country in that era. They were the single-most, hated race on the planet - Period.

Uniforms and insignia will garner the same sentiments...regardless of your [lack of] affiliation to what 'went down' back then.

Playing a German in any scenario (IMO) is the epitome of playing the "underdog" and is sometimes done to illicit some kind of "shock-value" in the game...because of the nature of historical events.

White Supremacy and related Hate groups, [just about] all align themselves with some type of Germanic or Ancient Nordic belief system. Most use the ancient symbols and writings (specifically, Nordic Runes) to have a 'visualization' of their intent. "Tyr", the Warrior Rune, is used by almost every white Supremacy group known in our database. It is the shape of an arrow head, pointing straight up. The Rune itself is innocuous because it only depicts one 'translation' of that particular letter/Rune...a 'warrior.' I wear this Rune...and I am the farthest person from racism there is. To me, the Rune dpeicts Power in Struggle and Overwhelming Force in Battle...what it's intended to mean. But people will bastardize things for their own use.

White Supremacists, think of themselves as the "warriors for the white-race." They couldn't be more wrong, but that's how they feel about it. It (Tyr) has been bastardized (like most other ancient symbols) to fill a need of that particular group. The Pentagram and Swastika are other example of this. The Pentagram is a Wiccan symbol, used during incantations or rituals. The 5 points of the star represent Earth, Air, Water, Fire and Spirit. One idiotic person ::cough ANTON LAVEY cough:: wrote the Satanic Bible...and viewed the Pentagram upside down, and in an apparent drug-induced state...thought it looked like a Ram's head...or his version of the representation of Satan in his animal form. The Swastika was an ancient religious symbol...ironically translated to mean "peace."

Mysticism, folklore and ancient customs aside, people of today could care less about the origins of things. They only care about what the most 'extreme' meaning is...and how they can get their 15 minutes of fame because of it. It's a plus when the juveniles of today can screw with someone, based upon their lack of humanity or reluctance to absorb information.

You also need to develop a thicker skin. Today's world is a cut-throat one. If someone can make themselves feel better in your misery (and they do), they will. If you let it get to you...or more to the point, control you...you will be battling this for the rest of your life. Do you want to "give up" or "succumb" to someone, every time they disagree with you? Or would you rather say "shut the _____ up; YOU are the idiot!"......?

Return the team's name to what it was before...and SCREW those idiots.

This post has been edited by druid: 06 November 2007 - 02:08 AM

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#12 User is offline   DZ Unit-1 

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 02:33 AM

View Postdruid, on Nov 6 2007, 03:01 AM, said:

View PostPuzuma, on Nov 5 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

Well that sucks. But all it takes for some people to go off the deep end is an implied association. Calling yourselves "The German Army" is about as short of a connection as you need.

I've been shaving my head for many years. I've been called a skinhead on more than one occasion. But I owned a shirt that seemed to cause me to hear that more often.

There's a company called Primal Wear that makes cycling clothing. I had purchased one of their tees called Tread head. The image was of a ram skull and the horns were made to look like bike tires. Most people failed to see the detail of the horns, especially in low light. I made sure not to wear it in the dark. I thought nothing of it, my friends all knew I wasn't a skinhead in any way, shape or form. The bald head and ram skull were enough to cause many people to jump tot he wrong conclusion.


I've run into that too, for about 90% the same reasons...lol...

BOT....

10-1, the idiots that did that on your guestbook are likely pbNation-ites with nothing better to do, than spam your guestbook. If you ever put your team's website in a forum link, that's how it got around. Nationites are real morons and will recruit others at the bottom of the gene pool to ridicule, demean or otherwise harass people...just for the sake of doing it. They are E-Thugs of the lowest order...

Now my personal suggestion:

With anything involving "German" in the Paintball/MilSim genre, you need to understand that this is going to happen. That is something that occurred in history that garners harsh and ill-feelings [and with good reason] towards that Country in that era. They were the single-most, hated race on the planet - Period.

Uniforms and insignia will garner the same sentiments...regardless of your [lack of] affiliation to what 'went down' back then.

Playing a German in any scenario (IMO) is the epitome of playing the "underdog" and is sometimes done to illicit some kind of "shock-value" in the game...because of the nature of historical events.

White Supremacy and related Hate groups, [just about] all align themselves with some type of Germanic or Ancient Nordic belief system. Most use the ancient symbols and writings (specifically, Nordic Runes) to have a 'visualization' of their intent. "Tyr", the Warrior Rune, is used by almost every white Supremacy group known in our database. It is the shape of an arrow head, pointing straight up. The Rune itself is innocuous because it only depicts one 'translation' of that particular letter/Rune...a 'warrior.' I wear this Rune...and I am the farthest person from racism there is. To me, the Rune dpeicts Power in Struggle and Overwhelming Force in Battle...what it's intended to mean. But people will bastardize things for their own use.

White Supremacists, think of themselves as the "warriors for the white-race." They couldn't be more wrong, but that's how they feel about it. It (Tyr) has been bastardized (like most other ancient symbols) to fill a need of that particular group. The Pentagram and Swastika are other example of this. The Pentagram is a Wiccan symbol, used during incantations or rituals. The 5 points of the star represent Earth, Air, Water, Fire and Spirit. One idiotic person ::cough ANTON LAVEY cough:: wrote the Satanic Bible...and viewed the Pentagram upside down, and in an apparent drug-induced state...thought it looked like a Ram's head...or his version of the representation of Satan in his animal form. The Swastika was an ancient religious symbol...ironically translated to mean "peace."

Mysticism, folklore and ancient customs aside, people of today could care less about the origins of things. They only care about what the most 'extreme' meaning is...and how they can get their 15 minutes of fame because of it. It's a plus when the juveniles of today can screw with someone, based upon their lack of humanity or reluctance to absorb information.

You also need to develop a thicker skin. Today's world is a cut-throat one. If someone can make themselves feel better in your misery (and they do), they will. If you let it get to you...or more to the point, control you...you will be battling this for the rest of your life. Do you want to "give up" or "succumb" to someone, every time they disagree with you? Or would you rather say "shut the _____ up; YOU are the idiot!"......?

Return the team's name to what it was before...and SCREW those idiots.


Amen!!!

-coming from an agnostic here too- :P
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#13 User is offline   Young (ODA-271) 

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 03:17 AM

Does it not have anything to do with:

Quote

You could be really nice eand sign our guestbook so we can get 1000 signatures, and get our site for free!


Which by the way is in your signature. Seems like you asked for it (the spam, not the racial outcry).

This post has been edited by Young (ODA-271): 06 November 2007 - 05:57 AM

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#14 User is offline   Ravenlord 

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 04:23 AM

People suck. The only opinion that truly matters is your own. Return your teams name. Remember that there might be a few that get offended but you cannot please everyone. If you get any more hate mail, do like the church of the flying spaghetti monster and repost it to show the world that to do things like this makes you look like a complete moron with no life.
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#15 User is offline   Evil Fingers 

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 05:32 AM

Players that portray the Role of the German Army arent alone, even WW2 German re-enactment actors and groups like those you see on the History Channel and other WW2 Documenatries get their fair share of idiots that think the same as the idiots who are sending you Hate Mail, so dont worry about it man, let those idiots keep on doing what theyre doing, because the only Fool is the Fool making a Big Thing out of nothin.

Also, myself and alot of other players that played the Role as a German Soldier during a scenario game last year and no one said anything bad about us, except of course we lost the Game, but it was all in good fun.
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