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Zombie Survival All zombie survival, all the time. Rate Topic: -----

#901 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:15 AM

That shotty was the Maverick 88, made by Mossberg. The only real difference is the safety is on the trigger guard as opposed to the tang. Otherwise, a great shotgun.

Still, Mossy 500s aren't that expensive (under $300 at my local Walmart for a sporting configuration, right at $320 at the gun store for the "riot gun" configuration), so if you'd prefer that, get that.

EDIT: And before you get that .300, you might consider a good .22LR. That .300 will be useless if you can't shoot it well. A .22 will allow you to master the art of practical field riflemanship for minimal investment. And you can stockpile enough .22 to last a LONG time through the Zompocalypse. That might be tough with any of the .300s.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 20 June 2011 - 10:50 AM

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#902 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 11:28 AM

View PostPistolWhipped, on 20 June 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

EDIT: And before you get that .300, you might consider a good .22LR. That .300 will be useless if you can't shoot it well. A .22 will allow you to master the art of practical field riflemanship for minimal investment. And you can stockpile enough .22 to last a LONG time through the Zompocalypse. That might be tough with any of the .300s.


This.

.22s are very versatile. Everything from plinking, target shooting, cheap training, survival hunting, etc. can all be accomplished.

And yes, in a pinch, a .22 can kill zombies.
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#903 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:31 PM

View PostThalion, on 20 June 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:



View PostJack the Ripper, on 19 June 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

A .38 and 9mm are virtually identical though.


Wrong. Very, very wrong.

A .38 special and a 9mm may have similar bullet diameter, and similar weight bullets. However, a bullet from a .38 special travels significantly slower (under 1000 FPS, typically in the 690-980 FPS range depending on bullet weight/cartridge load).

Given two objects of comparable mass and diameter, but one traveling substantially faster, it is clear that the two are not going to be "virtually identical."



I wans't talking about the case and charge, but rather the actual round itself. A bullet is the lead/copper part, a case is the brass( most of the time)and usually that also covers the charge, and round is the whole assemble.

9mm = .354330709 .38 Special caliber is actually .357–.358 inches (9.0678 mm)
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#904 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:38 PM

View PostPistolWhipped, on 20 June 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

That shotty was the Maverick 88, made by Mossberg. The only real difference is the safety is on the trigger guard as opposed to the tang. Otherwise, a great shotgun.

Still, Mossy 500s aren't that expensive (under $300 at my local Walmart for a sporting configuration, right at $320 at the gun store for the "riot gun" configuration), so if you'd prefer that, get that.

EDIT: And before you get that .300, you might consider a good .22LR. That .300 will be useless if you can't shoot it well. A .22 will allow you to master the art of practical field riflemanship for minimal investment. And you can stockpile enough .22 to last a LONG time through the Zompocalypse. That might be tough with any of the .300s.



Thanks for the shotgun info, that was the gun I was looking for.

TO sum it all up without much arguing, a .22/5.56 is a varmint round. It only leaves a 1/4" hole in a target. I want take down power with one shot. And yuo'll have to stock up on .22/5.56 rounds for the zombyecalypse cause it takes a ton of ammo to kill one( just ask out troops)

I have nothing against the .22 family. I like how there accurate and long range shooting. But they dont quite have the take down power of a .300 or bigger. And I'm not an idot, so I know bigger isn't always better, but I perfer a larger round for zombi killing.
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#905 User is offline   CMDR Cronus 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:05 PM

View PostJack the Ripper, on 20 June 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

View PostPistolWhipped, on 20 June 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

That shotty was the Maverick 88, made by Mossberg. The only real difference is the safety is on the trigger guard as opposed to the tang. Otherwise, a great shotgun.

Still, Mossy 500s aren't that expensive (under $300 at my local Walmart for a sporting configuration, right at $320 at the gun store for the "riot gun" configuration), so if you'd prefer that, get that.

EDIT: And before you get that .300, you might consider a good .22LR. That .300 will be useless if you can't shoot it well. A .22 will allow you to master the art of practical field riflemanship for minimal investment. And you can stockpile enough .22 to last a LONG time through the Zompocalypse. That might be tough with any of the .300s.



Thanks for the shotgun info, that was the gun I was looking for.

TO sum it all up without much arguing, a .22/5.56 is a varmint round. It only leaves a 1/4" hole in a target. I want take down power with one shot. And yuo'll have to stock up on .22/5.56 rounds for the zombyecalypse cause it takes a ton of ammo to kill one( just ask out troops)

I have nothing against the .22 family. I like how there accurate and long range shooting. But they dont quite have the take down power of a .300 or bigger. And I'm not an idot, so I know bigger isn't always better, but I perfer a larger round for zombi killing.


you don't need an excessive amount of stopping power. The reason we soldiers sometimes don't like the 5.56 is because it doesn't have much of that. Head shots, they work just fine. Any round that can pierce the skull is sufficient. there is no need to invest in the bigger guns, at least for that reason. Besides, if you hit a zombie in the chest, no matter what size the round, it won't do anything. It might knock it off it's feet, but will just get back up anyways.
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#906 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:59 PM

I'll say true to the fact that IF your good with your firearm, then no size doesn't matter. Me and my brother are pretty good with guns and shooting, to we can "kill" with any size round, but not every shot is in an indoor range with no wind with the target set up precisely still. Example: My brother has a Gamo whisper pellet gun( will post pic. It shoots a .177 cal round st an average of 950-1200 fps( depending on the round) with an average foot pound energy of 14 at 25 yards. We had a pig that was gona be dinner, so we took his gun and shot the pig in the head( at a precise spot about the size of a quarter) and dropped it. Now it wasn't no piglet, it was a 350 bl meat pig( we did weigh it). A few months later we where needing more meat, so back to the pig pen. Dad brought his .38 and had to shoot the pig 5 times in the head to finally drop it( we also did a spine shot to guarantee a kill afterwards). Both times where head shots, but unless you know exactly were to hit, you are not always guaranteed a kill. Its not like in the games, one head shot doesn't always stop the bad guy, so it helps to have a bigger round some times. And just to be clear, I'm not saying that the .700 express is the fix all to shooting zombies, but a larger than .22 round is sometimes needed to stop something.

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#907 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:15 PM

Since when was a .22LR long range? It's Maximum Point Blank Range is something like 125-135 yards. What it is, is piss cheap. $20 can get me about 60-80 rounds of 7.63x39, or over 500 rounds of .22. That's a hell of a lot more warning shots, head shots, target practice, and emergency hunting.

5.56 is not .22. It is not even .223, which you likely have confused it for. And all of the above will kill a zombie with a hit to the brain. Hell, it'll reliably kill a human with a round to the face or neck, and if no medical attention is available, a round to the gut is a slow, lingering, painful death.

Varmint rounds are known for accuracy and cartridge efficiency. Both would be prized in a zombie apocalypse.

As for "take down power" no normal round has that. Handgun rounds operate by punching holes into a target. Rifle rounds do the same, but also introduce hydrostatic shock, the shockwave created by the velocity and subsequent pressure vacuum. Even 12 gauge shotgun rounds will not normally deliver the kenetic energy required to bowl over an average human male.

"Stopping" can be accomplished in one of 5 ways.

Electrically, as happens with a brain/CNS shot (and the only reliable way to stop a zombie). Any round is capable of this.
Physiologically, Destruction of the heart, lungs, etc, which cause the body to be unable to support the brain. Works on people and animals, not the undead.
Hydraulically, by causing the target to loose enough blood to cease being able to continue action. Again, useless for zombies.
Structurally, by destroying supporting bone structure, making action impossible. With the undead, you get a crawler.
Psychologically, the "I JUST GOT SHOT" reaction. Zombies don't have this. Many animals don't even have this.

That' it. That's how terminal ballistics work. There is nothing that walks this Earth that has not been killed by a .22 LR (including an account I read of someone killing an elephant). Don't get me wrong, I usually like a .30 caliber round for many purposes, but your perception of smaller caliber rounds is skewed. Shot placement trumps caliber.

Bigger is not always better. Many refer to the Taylor KO energy equation to determine "take down power".

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A round of .223 is undeniably more lethal than a fast pitch soft ball, but by these standard measures, the softball has more kenetic energy and "take down power" based on weight and velocity figures.

The difference between a .22 diameter bullet and a .3 diameter bullet is less than the thickness of the blade of a pocket knife. It is an inconsequential increment, and will not be a factor in determining whether you hit or miss your target. That .270 of yours is plenty of rifle for distance shooting, and the flatter trajectory would make long range shooting simpler by reducing required holdovers.

Learn to shoot, THEN look to upgrade.

Also, learn to reload. MUCH cheaper than commercial ammo.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 20 June 2011 - 07:18 PM

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#908 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:35 PM

Thats what I just said, but you put it more colorfully :) Bullet placement is always paramount, but now every shot is taken in perfect conditions.

I have done years of study on .22, .223, 5.56 and just about every ammo type out there. That is why I haven't bought a gun yet, I'm still doing research. I got the .270 as a gift, and it dosent stop pleasing so far. I'm looking into the best of all worlds, travel( distance), ftlb energy on target, penetration and availability of ammo. And I'm just not seeing it in the .22 family ( includes 5.56 cause it IS a .22, more accurate its a 0.218897638).

O and by the way, heres a neat little chart that my dad found for me one day, comes in handy. http://www.airgunhom...alculators.html

This post has been edited by Jack the Ripper: 20 June 2011 - 07:36 PM

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#909 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:42 PM

View PostJack the Ripper, on 20 June 2011 - 06:31 PM, said:

I wans't talking about the case and charge, but rather the actual round itself. A bullet is the lead/copper part, a case is the brass( most of the time)and usually that also covers the charge, and round is the whole assemble.


Nice try, but I'm not buying it.

Here's why.

You said:

View PostJack the Ripper, on 19 June 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

A .38 and 9mm are virtually identical though.


A ".38" or a "9mm" is not a valid "bullet" description, but rather a cartridge description (specifically, the .38 special or the 9mm Luger aka 9mm Parabellum).


View PostJack the Ripper, on 20 June 2011 - 06:38 PM, said:

TO sum it all up without much arguing, a .22/5.56 is a varmint round. It only leaves a 1/4" hole in a target. I want take down power with one shot. And yuo'll have to stock up on .22/5.56 rounds for the zombyecalypse cause it takes a ton of ammo to kill one( just ask out troops)


Are we shooting at hostile survivors or at zeds? Against the undead, the only reliable shutdown is electrical, which PW already covered. Anything in the right spot will do this.

Against hostile survivors? The 5.56 will work fine, and can theoretically contribute to any of the 5 "fight stoppers."

If you're looking for "he fell over and never got up no matter what", well, you'll need to get into the realm of the ridiculous to achieve it, and have so many disadvantages that it negates your single advantage.

You're not going to have, even with one of your .30 type rifles (.308, .30-06, .300 Win Mag, etc), a "instant fall over dead" shot, unless you have succeeded in stopping them electrically.

Am I saying a 5.56 is just as good at everything as a .308 is? Absolutely not. But you are completely misjudging the capabilities of smaller caliber weaponry.

If I only got one long gun to survive a short term disaster (talking realistic events like tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc), if my choices were a 5.56 carbine (such as an AR-15) or a .300 Win mag rifle, I would pick the 5.56 carbine 10 times out of 10. It offers more advantages for the situation than the .300 Win mag does.

View PostPistolWhipped, on 20 June 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

*snip*


/Discussion.

And rep for you sir.


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View PostJack the Ripper, on 20 June 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

Bullet placement is always paramount, but now every shot is taken in perfect conditions.


Which is why I want volume to be shot rather than raw power.

I'd rather boost my odds of a good hit with 2-3 rounds of 5.56 or 7.62x39 than a single shot of one of your ".300s" you keep talking about (btw, do you mean .300 Win mag, .300 Whisper, .300 Weatherby mag, which?)

One shot at a time is foolish except for an ideal (or somewhat close to it) conditions shot. But, in the real combat world when you have to be shooting on the move? Forget it.

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I have done years of study on .22, .223, 5.56 and just about every ammo type out there. That is why I haven't bought a gun yet, I'm still doing research.


For all your claimed research, you certainly missed a lot about it. Folks like PW and I haven't spent years "researching" the Internet like you; we've actually been out there shooting stuff for years with a range of calibers. Our information is backed by both practical experts and by our own practical experience, not exclusively a theoretical figure from a guy with a calculator attempting to guesstimate.

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I got the .270 as a gift, and it dosent stop pleasing so far. I'm looking into the best of all worlds, travel( distance), ftlb energy on target, penetration and availability of ammo. And I'm just not seeing it in the .22 family ( includes 5.56 cause it IS a .22, more accurate its a 0.218897638).


1. The .270 Winchester cartridge is capable of bagging nearly anything on the North American continent, and even a fair amount of African game if done correctly. If it's not pleasing to you, consider the other factors because it is not the caliber.

2. You're really, really, really missing the point, because you keep on coming back to the diameter of a .22 bullet. This argument of "but it's a .22" regardless of cartridge (.22 LR, .223, or 5.56) proves you don't get it.

3. No manufacturer anywhere measures their bullets to that far a significant figure. All of them stop at 3-4 significant figures. I don't know where you are getting this information, but it is full of 100% crap.

Oh, and it's actually .224" by significant figures :D

This post has been edited by Thalion: 20 June 2011 - 07:52 PM

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#910 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:50 PM

Your hearing the back side or years of research into ammo, and specifically the 5.56. I could( but wount) go into the whole story about why I do or done like the 5.56 or .22 rounds, I just skip ans say that I dont like the .22 or 5.56, simple as that. I recognize the effectiveness of the .22/5.56, its distance capability and penetrating power, but its just not for me. I actually dont mind the rounds, but NOT for killing ANYTHING other than varmints.
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#911 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:59 PM

I can't believe I'm falling for this.... I'm starting to smell trolling.

View PostJack the Ripper, on 20 June 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

Your hearing the back side or years of research into ammo, and specifically the 5.56.


I'm sorry, but I've already commented on your "years of research" in my last reply.

Fact is, you're going up against people who've been doing this almost before you could walk (and in PW's case, since he could barely walk). We grew up doing this.

You're not going to win with uncited, undocumented "years of research" on the Internet. Especially when it's not telling a consistent message with reality.

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I just skip ans say that I dont like the .22 or 5.56, simple as that.


And we're telling you it's good for zeds and for survival. We're not saying you run around using a .22 LR as a tool to fend off humans or dangerous animals.

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I recognize the effectiveness of the .22/5.56, its distance capability and penetrating power, but its just not for me


By your posts, I can tell you do not. It's one thing to say "it''s not for me." For example, I have little interest in the 10mm cartridge. It doesn't fit a role I need, it's expensive (to some degree), and I can do a better job with another caliber.

But you're arguing that "a .22 is a .22" and that's about the extent of the argument you've put forth.
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#912 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:04 PM

Last time this happened, I ended up banned. So I'll take my opinions elsewhere, thanks you for your time :evil:
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#913 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:09 PM

I think this says it best:

View PostPistolWhipped, on 20 June 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Learn to shoot, THEN look to upgrade.

Also, learn to reload. MUCH cheaper than commercial ammo.

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#914 User is offline   Lt.Col.Vortex 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:13 PM

Can do both
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#915 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:13 PM

Irock a Deaglefor mah zombie survival. :dodgy:
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