Special Ops Paintball: Side project: Dagger - Special Ops Paintball

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Side project: Dagger Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:54 PM

Science says a longer control bore will increase accuracy up to about 9.5", a=at which point the accuracy gained (if any) is offset by the increased chance of breaking and the loss on efficiency. The shortest length an greatest accuracy comes at around 4.5". This is assuming that you are matched to paint size. So if your snub is around 4.5" and matched tho the paint, you'll have all you need, the rest is all for porting which reduces sound signature.
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#17 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:11 PM

View Postger, on 04 January 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

Looks fun.

I don't have a problem w/ the car stock on there, but a sliding/folding stock would definitely be better since you are purposely making it a cqb setup. The cars look cool but that's the extent of their usefulness.

The barrel length is awfully short, so you would have no choice but to play close for accurate shots. Shortest I've played w/ is an 8" Lapco Bigshot, it is noticeably less accurate than a 13" Palmers. What Supergyro was reffering to was super_stanchy, he's a member on mcarterbrown & can probably machine that stubby barrel to accept iFit inserts - which would be pretty cool. Or you could drop the cash to get a full iFit kit & put you're barrel on it, only adding a couple inches.

Shipwreck wisely suggested using a chrono if switching barrels mid-game - bore size & length changes both affect the FPS. You'd have to check w/ your field, but our field doesn't have a written rule against switching barrels in the field because most people aren't going to take the time to do it.

If you're not putting an rt or e-grip on it maybe go w/ a smaller hopper. W/ a tight setup like you have that thing just looks huge :D.

Overall I think it looks great, plus I like the paint job :tup:.


Dude that barrel lenght is awfully awesome! For close quarters, you should try it out sometime!

Is iFit a quick change system? If so AWESOME! If not, I found switching barrels with the standard A-5 threads a massive pain in the a**. It took a long time cause the threads were so fine, at least a long time for the middle of a paintball game. But then even if it is a standard thread system, if you have the iFit fitting built INTO your stub nose like they said it would'nt matter, you could fire effectively at anytime while threading in or out the other barrel, because the stub nose is always attached! So dope call!

Yeah definently chrono, remember set whichever barrel has the HIGHEST fps to the 280fps standard. You don't want to chrono your slow barrel to 280fps then bust someone's goggles with a 400fps monster from your fast barrel!

I concure dude, if you're not gonna go auto ditch that ginormous hopper too! It's so awesome to have a super compact gun! In fact, I would recomend the new mag feed kit for yours, I'd love to see your gun with one of those on it... BUT they're not out yet, unproven and now they're expensive to boot. If you like that idea, I'd wait till they come out, and get one used and cheap from someone that pre-ordered and didn't like it...

As for the car stock: I've got a car and a g36 folder, and tried both with my stubnose setup. I found that with any long barrel on there, the car is basically useless for close quarters because the guns still super long with it collapsed. BUT I also found that the car stock is actually works fine for close quarters as long as you're using the stubnose.

Basically the perfect size of a cqb gun is no longer than your shoulders are wide. If it's only as long as the width of your shoulders, then you know it will fit anywhere you can fit through, while maintaining a shooting stance, so you're always ready vs. aiming your barrel down to go through doorways, then trying to wip it up quickly before you get shot...

Anyway fully collapsed CAR stock with a stub nose, for me, barely makes that cut. BUT any kind of folding of fully collapseable stock will still work wayyyy better at the same thing! With a full collapseable or folding stock you can even make due with your full length barrel at close quarters if you don't have time to switch to stub nose. And if you do have time to switch to stubnose with a fully collapseable or folding stock... That is the ULTIMATE cqb gun! It just gets unbelievable manuverable, for "fighting in the phonebooth" as they say.

Point about the CAR stock being: if you don't want to buy a new stock for any reason, the one you have will do fine. But if you want to go all out, there are better options...

EDIT: added an "n't" up there...

This post has been edited by Shipwreck!: 04 January 2011 - 10:17 PM

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#18 User is offline   Cobrakai 

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:41 PM

View PostShipwreck!, on 04 January 2011 - 02:17 AM, said:


That gat's actually pretty legit! I used to have a 3 inch stubby for my A-5 they're dope! The range is really only good for about 20-30ft. But that's not the point, the point is manuverability at close quarters, and for that there is NOTHING better. And with the thick threads on those 98's if you're playing a field with wide open spaces and you DO need some range occassionally, it'll be pretty quick and easy to switch to the stock barrel or any aftermarket barrel you have.

When I had the stuby for my A-5 but the standard threads on that gun are really fine so it took like 30 seconds to switch between the stub and the stock when I need to switch for range or manuverability and I was paranoid I'd get shot constantly while doing that. Then I moded the socket for the barrell adapter to be a 1/4 turn quick change, then it was dope, I just left the barrel adapter on the stub nose barrel, and I could switch between the awesome range of my FLatline and the unparraleled manuverability of my stub nose in like 1 second! 2 seconds at the most if I was slow. So yeah, stub nose very bueno!

Only thing is if you're playing an official field there might be a rule against switching barrels, which would be lame. If not all you have to do is make sure whichever barrel you have that has the highest fps, is chrono'd 280 so the other will be less which sucks but it'll be the stubnose and you're not doing ranged fighting with that anyway so it don't matter too much...

Yeah the short barrel is obviously for extreme close quarters scenario's. I love being versatile and my friends and I play some hostage scenario's where breaching tactics fall into play, that's where this guy comes in handy. Good to see someone else on here who likes this idea! :laugh:

View PostShipwreck!, on 04 January 2011 - 02:36 AM, said:

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on 03 January 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

You should swap out the CAR stock for a BT MP-5-style sliding stock, and get a slightly longer barrel-and an E-Grip, make a hell of a little pray-and-sprayer.


No way dude, screw e-grips and a longer barrel, that's what you keep your stock barrel around for. Just switch if you need the range! Good call on the stock though, get that MP-5 stock it'll be even more compact it'll be the PERFECT gun for your close quarters shootouts! Once you try a gun that's shorter than your shoulders are wide, for going through breaches, you'll never go back to a long gun. Except switching barrels for range, when you're fighting in the open...

But if you're usually fighting in the open and you just want something light to run around with, don't bother with the stub nose, the only significant difference will be the lack of range. As far as weight goes, a full lenght bareel is only going to be a couple grams or so heaver than your stub nose, so won't make any difference as far as carrying the thing around, or spead of rotation.

If you're going extreme close quarters on a regular basis, THEN the stub nose is the best mod you can possibly have for that purpose. and the significant difference it makes in that case is a lack of over all marker lenght which is incredible. It's really nice being able to go through a breach with your barrel up ready to shoot, vs having to aim down, then wip your gun up on the other side, cause your barrel is too long...

Agreed, that's why I have the stock barrel like you said for instances when I need to bust out something with a little more range. As much as I'd love to dump more money in this guy, I think I'm going to put a couple more small upgrades on it and save for a longbow.. Problem is finding one. :(

View Postger, on 04 January 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

Looks fun.

I don't have a problem w/ the car stock on there, but a sliding/folding stock would definitely be better since you are purposely making it a cqb setup. The cars look cool but that's the extent of their usefulness.

The barrel length is awfully short, so you would have no choice but to play close for accurate shots. Shortest I've played w/ is an 8" Lapco Bigshot, it is noticeably less accurate than a 13" Palmers. What Supergyro was reffering to was super_stanchy, he's a member on mcarterbrown & can probably machine that stubby barrel to accept iFit inserts - which would be pretty cool. Or you could drop the cash to get a full iFit kit & put you're barrel on it, only adding a couple inches.

Shipwreck wisely suggested using a chrono if switching barrels mid-game - bore size & length changes both affect the FPS. You'd have to check w/ your field, but our field doesn't have a written rule against switching barrels in the field because most people aren't going to take the time to do it.

If you're not putting an rt or e-grip on it maybe go w/ a smaller hopper. W/ a tight setup like you have that thing just looks huge :D.

Overall I think it looks great, plus I like the paint job :tup:.

Yea, great advice. I think a smaller hopper and the smaller stock (as stated before) are both great ideas.. I love the Mp-5 slider.. When you've been playing paintball as long as I have it is always fun to try to make things more interesting/challenging. If I'm playing with beginner players I don't like to beat up on them too bad, so I'll use this for a challenge.

View Postcdrinkh20, on 04 January 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

At Shipwreck: except from what I hear, the stock barrel is JUNK :P



View PostShipwreck!, on 05 January 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

View Postger, on 04 January 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

Looks fun.

I don't have a problem w/ the car stock on there, but a sliding/folding stock would definitely be better since you are purposely making it a cqb setup. The cars look cool but that's the extent of their usefulness.

The barrel length is awfully short, so you would have no choice but to play close for accurate shots. Shortest I've played w/ is an 8" Lapco Bigshot, it is noticeably less accurate than a 13" Palmers. What Supergyro was reffering to was super_stanchy, he's a member on mcarterbrown & can probably machine that stubby barrel to accept iFit inserts - which would be pretty cool. Or you could drop the cash to get a full iFit kit & put you're barrel on it, only adding a couple inches.

Shipwreck wisely suggested using a chrono if switching barrels mid-game - bore size & length changes both affect the FPS. You'd have to check w/ your field, but our field doesn't have a written rule against switching barrels in the field because most people aren't going to take the time to do it.

If you're not putting an rt or e-grip on it maybe go w/ a smaller hopper. W/ a tight setup like you have that thing just looks huge :D.

Overall I think it looks great, plus I like the paint job :tup:.


Dude that barrel lenght is awfully awesome! For close quarters, you should try it out sometime!

Is iFit a quick change system? If so AWESOME! If not, I found switching barrels with the standard A-5 threads a massive pain in the a**. It took a long time cause the threads were so fine, at least a long time for the middle of a paintball game. But then even if it is a standard thread system, if you have the iFit fitting built INTO your stub nose like they said it would'nt matter, you could fire effectively at anytime while threading in or out the other barrel, because the stub nose is always attached! So dope call!

Yeah definently chrono, remember set whichever barrel has the HIGHEST fps to the 280fps standard. You don't want to chrono your slow barrel to 280fps then bust someone's goggles with a 400fps monster from your fast barrel!

I concure dude, if you're not gonna go auto ditch that ginormous hopper too! It's so awesome to have a super compact gun! In fact, I would recomend the new mag feed kit for yours, I'd love to see your gun with one of those on it... BUT they're not out yet, unproven and now they're expensive to boot. If you like that idea, I'd wait till they come out, and get one used and cheap from someone that pre-ordered and didn't like it...

As for the car stock: I've got a car and a g36 folder, and tried both with my stubnose setup. I found that with any long barrel on there, the car is basically useless for close quarters because the guns still super long with it collapsed. BUT I also found that the car stock is actually works fine for close quarters as long as you're using the stubnose.

Basically the perfect size of a cqb gun is no longer than your shoulders are wide. If it's only as long as the width of your shoulders, then you know it will fit anywhere you can fit through, while maintaining a shooting stance, so you're always ready vs. aiming your barrel down to go through doorways, then trying to wip it up quickly before you get shot...

Anyway fully collapsed CAR stock with a stub nose, for me, barely makes that cut. BUT any kind of folding of fully collapseable stock will still work wayyyy better at the same thing! With a full collapseable or folding stock you can even make due with your full length barrel at close quarters if you don't have time to switch to stub nose. And if you do have time to switch to stubnose with a fully collapseable or folding stock... That is the ULTIMATE cqb gun! It just gets unbelievable manuverable, for "fighting in the phonebooth" as they say.

Point about the CAR stock being: if you don't want to buy a new stock for any reason, the one you have will do fine. But if you want to go all out, there are better options...

EDIT: added an "n't" up there...

Again agreed.. I just kinda used resources and accessories I had to put this guy together. I'm torn between an Mp-5 slider and a G36 folding stock.. But that's if I even get another stock.
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#19 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:02 PM

my suggestion, Remove the stock and use the tank on your shoulder, if your going snub nose close quaters, for fun try going as light and tight as possible.

eh. sometimes i run my 98 with a stock, sometimes i dont. just how i feel some days.
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#20 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 05:38 AM

I got the G36 folding stock myself, and I can tell you it works great! It's tough as nails and through the years I've had mine not even the spring has worn out. Although it does have one flaw. I guess the real deal has a cheek rest built into it which of course is a good thing for the real deal, but we know that's the LAST thing you would ever need or want on a paintball version. If anything we need a cheek WELL to accomodate our paintball masks. Well, appearently the manufacturer didn't know that, so as in the real version the paintball one has a cheek rest that wreaks havoc when aiming with the stock. It's actually not too bad, I use a red dot w/45 offset mount and it works ok. Just letting you know it isn't perfect for paintball.

On the otherhand I can't personally attest to the reliability, or lack there of, for the MP5 slider. BUT, it looks like it would accomodate sighting with a mask alot better than the G36 style folder. Agian can't say either way for sure though. The TM7 comes with a MP5 style slider though. You could go down to your local shop and ask to look at their display model with your paintball mask to get a good feel for how the stock and mask will work together.

@Eskimo: I can only assume that he's running remote air with this setup. The folding and MP5 sliding, and even his CAR stock without grip mounted air will all be a tighter setup than using the CO2 bottle as a stock. The CO2 bottle isn't adjustable, it's longer than the CAR stock, and it's WAY longer than a folding or MP5 style stock. So not the best solution for close quarters. Even with a stubnose if you run grip mounted air you'd still have an uber long gun, and you'd have to lower it to go through breaches. You want a CQB gun there's only three good ways to mount air: forward facing grip mounted, vert air, or off gun with a remote line.

In fact if you are running regular grip mounted air, there's not really any point to any of these stock at all. The whole point of these stocks is that they allow you to reduce or extend the overall length of your gun, but if you've got rear air sticking out the back at all time, it doesn't make any difference at all what position your stock is in. The gun stays the same lenght at all times. But I assume you know that, as it sounds like you know what your talking about from above... anyway, what do you do with your air?
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#21 User is offline   Cobrakai 

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 12:37 AM

Can't believe I forgot to post the final product of the helmet.. Well here it is. And yes I like to play with my helmet in the bathtub. haha
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