Special Ops Paintball: "Air Issue" with a Tippmann A5 - Special Ops Paintball

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"Air Issue" with a Tippmann A5 Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   VD26 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 09:49 AM

Hello All,

This may be in the wrong section of the forum. Moderators please take note and let me know, I apologize in advance.

So this past Big Game, I went to try out my new marker set up, as I have recently installed a bunch of internal goodies for the cyclone feed, as well as a new bolt for the marker itself. I attempted to run a remote line off of a 12oz CO2 tank, just fully filled moments ago. As I began my chrono test, I was puffing out gas, but none of the paintballs came out. At the time, I was using a 30 round tac cap. At first, it seemed the cyclone was "crammed" with paint, so I took some out. A few went through, but the gun continued to fire dry. After about 14 shots, the marker reacted in the same fashion that the C02 tank was empty *sputtering the bolt.* I had the tank checked, the tank was full. I went back to the chrono with a new hopper to avoid any issue with the cyclone blades being obstructed, and again, hooked up my remote line to the CO2 tank. There was no sign of leakage from the tank, or even the marker. I go back to the chrono with the same issues; Weak velocity, dry firing, 10 shots or less the gun runs out of air. I used a rental for the rest of the day.

The next day, I took my marker out, took it apart to see that everything was together accordingly to the diagram from the manual. The O rings seem to be in good shape both on the CO2 tank and inside my marker. I assembled it back together, hooked up the remote line to see if things had changed, but again, the same issues are present. The marker runs out of air, yet there's still plenty in the tank. I tried directly connecting the tank to the marker itself, in which it actually performed worse! The weather has been between high 30's and low 50's, but I've experienced CO2 in these conditions before without the problems I'm experiencing now.

This is EXTREMELY frustrating. I'll admit not to be such a "gear-head," so my out of the box thinking as far as mechanical repairing is a bit lacking. I am 100% confident, though, that I have my marker assembled with 100% compatible parts.

Would anyone care to take a bite on the subject? I've dumped so much time and money, I'd hate to look into seeing this off to the graveyard.
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#2 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:30 AM

View PostVD26, on 29 November 2010 - 09:49 AM, said:

Hello All,

This may be in the wrong section of the forum. Moderators please take note and let me know, I apologize in advance.

So this past Big Game, I went to try out my new marker set up, as I have recently installed a bunch of internal goodies for the cyclone feed, as well as a new bolt for the marker itself. I attempted to run a remote line off of a 12oz CO2 tank, just fully filled moments ago. As I began my chrono test, I was puffing out gas, but none of the paintballs came out. At the time, I was using a 30 round tac cap. At first, it seemed the cyclone was "crammed" with paint, so I took some out. A few went through, but the gun continued to fire dry. After about 14 shots, the marker reacted in the same fashion that the C02 tank was empty *sputtering the bolt.* I had the tank checked, the tank was full. I went back to the chrono with a new hopper to avoid any issue with the cyclone blades being obstructed, and again, hooked up my remote line to the CO2 tank. There was no sign of leakage from the tank, or even the marker. I go back to the chrono with the same issues; Weak velocity, dry firing, 10 shots or less the gun runs out of air. I used a rental for the rest of the day.

The next day, I took my marker out, took it apart to see that everything was together accordingly to the diagram from the manual. The O rings seem to be in good shape both on the CO2 tank and inside my marker. I assembled it back together, hooked up the remote line to see if things had changed, but again, the same issues are present. The marker runs out of air, yet there's still plenty in the tank. I tried directly connecting the tank to the marker itself, in which it actually performed worse! The weather has been between high 30's and low 50's, but I've experienced CO2 in these conditions before without the problems I'm experiencing now.

This is EXTREMELY frustrating. I'll admit not to be such a "gear-head," so my out of the box thinking as far as mechanical repairing is a bit lacking. I am 100% confident, though, that I have my marker assembled with 100% compatible parts.

Would anyone care to take a bite on the subject? I've dumped so much time and money, I'd hate to look into seeing this off to the graveyard.


Haven't heard of any issues like this myself, but I'd have to guess possibly some issue in the steel-braided hose or valve itself...maybe dirt or something clogging the line. :huh:

Oh WAIT - I remember a kid who went out with his brand new gear/tank (CO2) and it wouldn't work - gun worked just fine with my HPA hooked up...it could be TOO full. If so, the pin isn't being depressed enough (in the CO2 tank) to let it fire. Just see if you can try with a friend's HPA tank or press the pin of the CO2 tank down on the corner of some concrete or something (point AWAY from anyone or anything it could harm - it's liquid gas at SUPER low temperatures) and bleed out a little.

:)
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#3 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:21 AM

What mods to the cyclone did you make? there are several small steps that could be easily missed and cause this problem.

Also, what internal upgrades did you make? Certain ups dont work with certain springs. List them and other A5 users (like myself) can help you out.
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#4 User is offline   VD26 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 12:29 PM

Upgrade Kit List:

Rufus Dawg RAPS Cyclone Feed Paddles

Rufus Dawg Wicked Bolt Kit

Tech T Paintball Vortex Mod

Tech T Paintball Lightening Rod

Tech T Paintball QEPH

HELP!

@cdrinkh20,
Thank you for your input. Unfortunately, this did not resolve my issue. I also tried taking the asa and steel hose off, connecting the quick attach/detach "nipple" for the remote line into the asa on the marker itself. This did not resolve my issue, either.

@Benaiah,
The "upgrade" parts I've purchased were used as they came. Each part was packaged with a little flyer of installation steps. Before the big game event, my marker seemed to have been firing without any issues with these new parts installed.
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#5 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 12:42 PM

Hmmm...well I had a 98c with a cyclone and a full TechT kit with no issues...it seems like it might be an issue with the spring not pushing the hammer hard enough (getting stuck?)....might need a new spring, oil...? Just speculating.

If there's dirt in the valve itself it could be causing the pin to stick or something.

Not sure :S
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#6 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

Simpler solutions:

May sound obvious, but is the cyclone greased? make sure every contact point under that hatch is well greased, and use oil in the piston housing. Just a few drops. A little trick i picked up on is to not screw those four screws under the cyclone housing in too far. leave them a little loose to take some pressure off of the ratchet. Also, it helps to line up the flat-head grove on your banjo fittings vertically. This aligns the holes inside with the tube. Not critical, but it helps.

While some of the o-rings may look fine, they may be swollen. In the case of the hammer o-ring, this can significantly slow it down.

Another option is like cdrinkh20 said. CO2 does not have any sort of regulator on its output, while HPA does. A high-pressure HPA tank may give you the extra gas boost to fully operate the gun. If youre still using a CO2 tank, the remote line, expansion chamber, or a little room in the tank may allow the gas to expand more and supply more air. On the note of CO2, a freshly filled bottle will put out less CO2 than a warm one. When chrono-ing with a freshly filled CO2 tank, always chrono about 10-20 fps lower than the max. I have seen someone chrono 280 with CO2 in the morining, then retest later that day at 330. play it safe. you can always rechrono later if you feel youre shooting slow.

More complex problems if the above doesn't help:

Theres a small spring inside the vortex mod ratchet (the darker piece) that you have to cut. Its actually the stock spring, but they say to cut a coil or two off. its the spring that holds the shaft against the notch on the ratchet. if this spring is too strong, it will slow the rotation of the cyclone and could cause missed shots. However, i have heard of issues when combining all those cyclone mods together that the ram pushes too hard and can spin so fast the gears dont catch. you can replace the spring inside the vortex mod with a cut pen spring, clipping one rotation until it works, if you find that the spring could be the problem. Another common issue is the QEPH. sometime it vents too much, and does not give the rod enough force to catch the ratchet. Try replacing the QEPH with the original housing and see if that does anything.

As for the bolt kit, mine currently has a problem where the bolt is too small for the hammer, and the hammer slows down significantly before hitting the pin. This can be fixed by replacing the drive spring with a stronger spring from a kit, but you may need to buy a new hammer. A Zero-Kick hammer would be best, but make sure you use the right drive spring and o-ring.

Another problem i have had is in the valve. the older style has two slots in the side, while the newer one has 4. this is because HPA is becoming more popular, but is less dense than CO2 and requires more room to get the same amount of pressure (complicated fluid mechanics, just take my word for it). If you have one with two slots, you may want to look into finding an after-market valve with increased flow, or the new stock valve. This is all assuming your cyclone is not functioning for lack of air, as mine is. A good indicator that this is your problem is if your marker is consistently chrono-ing way too low. If the problem is in the cyclone, the internals are obviously fine.

Check some of this out and let us know what you find.

This post has been edited by Benaiah: 29 November 2010 - 01:03 PM

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#7 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 01:10 PM

Try it without the remote line. It sounds like you are screwing the pin valve in too much and cutting off the tank's air flow.
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#8 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 01:12 PM

View Postslinkyaroo, on 29 November 2010 - 01:10 PM, said:

Try it without the remote line. It sounds like you are screwing the pin valve in too much and cutting off the tank's air flow.


Quote

I tried directly connecting the tank to the marker itself, in which it actually performed worse!


:blink:
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#9 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 01:34 PM

Then try another tank. If CO2 is overfilled it will close the valve off. If hpa, then regulators act up.

A cyclone mod will not starve an A5 unless you cracked the power tube.
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#10 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:07 PM

If the CO2 tank is indeed overfilled that could be the issue right there. If not...

Take the marker back to stock then try it again to make certain it works like you remembered before you added the upgrades. If it does work perfectly, add one upgrade at a time & testing w/ just that upgrade - by process of elimination you should be able to determine which piece is causing the problem. It's time consuming but worth it to narrow down the issue.

The upgraded bolt shouldn't do much to increase the performance of the marker. But, it also shouldn't be causing any of the problems you are having. From my own personal experience: the cyclone upgrades, for the most part, just aren't worth it... unless you are firing at consistent high rates of fire, which you shouldn't be w/ CO2 anyways. I've put all the upgrades in because I have an e-grip but they just caused too many feeding problems. I kept the softer paddles & took the rest back to stock & haven't had any issues w/ the cyclone since.

Good luck w/ the fix & keep us updated on your progress/solution.
ger
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#11 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:16 PM

I had a similar problem with my A5, but my problem was on my ASA.

If you do not have the same problem as I did, I would get the marker to work by putting it back to normal, and then i would change out one piece at a time in order to find which was causing the problem. It will be a long process, but thats my best advice if no one can figure out what is wrong with your A5.
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#12 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 05:12 PM

Ok...lets absolutly forget about the cyclone for now.

The primary problem is the fact that you are not getting full complete cycles from the gun.



  • This could be caused by not enough pressure reaching the valve.
  • Losing presure somewhere in the system during the cycle and not having enough umph to complete the cycle.
  • Weak main spring.
  • Upgraded bolt being too tight to operate smooth and easily.
  • And possibly a worn sear, hammer, or combination of both.


For number 1, sounds like you have tried different tanks and different possibilities.

2...a pretty tough possibility to find. Being a blow back operated gun really makes loss of air in the system a failure in the return cycle the most common problem.
Take a good close look at the power tube. I had an A5 with a cracked tube that randomly performed like this. Replacing the power tube solved the problem...but if yours is not broken there is no reason to replace the power tube.

If the power tube is good you should really look at 3 and 4 in detail.

And lastley 5. This one you just have to look at carefully. The sear and hammer should have good contact points that properly catch when engauged. The few bad ones I have seen in the past tended to be the hammer over the sear, but there is a chance that both might be to blame.

2, 3, and 4 are the most likey culprits and should be investigated in depth. 5 is is something yolu should look at closely when you have it torn down for inspection.

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 29 November 2010 - 05:18 PM

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#13 User is offline   VD26 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 06:27 PM

Thank you all for the support. I greatly appreciate it.

Test #1 will be conducted sometime during the day tomorrow. I have removed the Tech T Paintball QEPH, replacing it with the stock feeder cylinder. I have everything oiled APPROPRIATELY, not in excess or lacking condition. I'm hoping the failed cycling of the entire gun is from the tank. I'll give it a "3rd time's a charm" approach. If the marker is still failing to cycle, as well as the cyclone failing to do it's job, Test #2 will consist of reinstalling all stock cyclone parts, as well as removal of the Rufus Dawg Wicked Bolt; putting back the stock bolt. If this does not resolve the issue, Test #3 will consist of another disassembly and inspection of the marker's guts. Test #4 upon Test #3's failure will consist of, well...maybe a few bottles of beer will resolve some frustration.

@Krazy 8,

Very intuitive approach there, that's some solid guesstimating. I'll be utilizing those guidelines as a foundation for my trial and inevitable error in this process.

@Invictusone,

ASA is good to go, no issues there. Stock part's worked fine, so as stated above, we'll see how the tests go.

@ger,

Thanks for the input on the upgrades. Careful what you read on the label, eh? More research will be done before future mods, that's for sure. I'll still keep my eye on the tank possibility. I've only one C02 tank to work with at the moment.

@slinkyaroo,
Power tube is good to go.

@Benaiah,

Great bit of info. We'll see how the tests go.

@cdrinkh20,

She's clean as a whistle with plenty of love (oil.) I'll keep my eye on the spring idea. Unrelated - How well does the M98 handle the cyclone? Do you run an egrip? I've been meaning to pick up a new M98 as a backup/spare marker for a buddy or myself. Cyclone on an M98 sounds like a good deal.

Thanks again, guys. Wish me luck.
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#14 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 06:56 PM

@VD26 Oops, I did not see that I suggested the same thing as Ger. Also, I am glad to hear your asa is working.
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#15 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 08:07 PM

Worked like a dream, my friend - it was also nice because compared to an A5, it sits further from the marker receiver - gives you more clearance for a scope/sighting down the marker.

Also, it's nice to be able to just hit the front iron sight and have it flip down sideways for cleaning, etc. Mine was ACT and I NEVER chopped a ball (semi-auto though).
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