Special Ops Paintball: Abandoned buildings for play - Special Ops Paintball

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Abandoned buildings for play Opinions please Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Snatch_Patcherson 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:19 AM

Where I live it's very, very, very cold, US players, whatever your coldest day is, well it's colder here, many days in the dead of winter we have -40 degree celsius weather (incase you're wondering at -40 the celcius and fahrenheit thermometers are the exact same temp) so I could also say -40 fahrenheit or even a little colder. Also we have about 3 - 4 feet of snow right now. So the natural hunt for an indoor place to play becomes priority, both to escape the cold and the snow. I realise somewhere abandoned will obviously not have heat, and will not have electricity, however my grandfather used to own a construction company for 2 decades until he was diagnosed with cancer and closed it.

I myself am a foreman ironworker, I've worked in residential construction as well and have access to kerosene and propane heaters, as well as tarps and lumber to close off any large openings. So if necessary (and I'm sure it will be) I can heat a fairly large space to manageable levels, if I have to I can also grab a generator and a few electric heaters as well. So now here lies the question, what can I do to convince neighbours of this building not to complain about us using the building, (heres a link to it) http://www.ontarioab...chemsawmill.asp click the pics to enlarge naturally. It looks structurally sound (if anyone knows its me), hasn't been abandoned all that long and I believe it has a great amount of potential. Also the stairs you can see in that pic are actually a set of stairs removed and leaned against that post, not leading to the upper story so no risk there. I will however check out the upper story to see if it is safe.

Now structural business and safety aside what I was wondering is this. What can I do to convince the neighbours not to complain? the only neighbours is one house in sight and a small demolition business who does work for the mines, I've met these guys before and they're pretty relaxed folks. As for the houses I will simply knock on the door, explain to them what we want to do, that we will not vandalize the property, and that were are all mature adults, all in our 20's and some in our 30's, not just punk kids. I'll promise they won't have any issue with noise, and that no balls will be fired outside of the building and that we will have very strict rules on safe and no fire zones (all rules will be printed off and presented to them) also I'll provide them my name, address and cell number if there is any issue.

So if anyone has any input please, please contribute, there is a group of about 20 of us desperate to play, and want to try something other than the woods, theres good potential here for scenarios and just all out no point fire fights =)

Eventhough I have addressed safety issues I still welcome comments or questions about safety, because lets face it, there should be no form of work or play performed unless you are safe because everyone needs to go home, plain and simple. I also welcome suggestions for obstacles and anything that could make it a fun play area. As for the owner, he died a few years ago and the property now belongs to his son, who now lives in Toronto (6 hours south) and basically has nothing at all to do with the property and has left it to whatever ends may find it. If there were a local owner I knew of I would offer to pay a daily rental fee and sign whatever waivers he likes but this isn't the case. As long as we don't receive any complaints I don't really see an issue with it, we aren't there to destroy the place, to burn it down or smash it with sledge hammers, we're the lesser of two evils you could say lol.
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#2 User is offline   busta 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:42 AM

hmmm..sounds good man!! sounds and looks like a place with a lot of potencial. we play around some abandonded factories too. the place we play in used to be a fish farm. i'll try to get some pics up.

that looks like a good place to use cars for playing =P love that.


btw, i was just wondering, how can celcius and fahrenheit be the same temp at -40? that's kinda impossible isn't it?
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#3 User is offline   ranger111133 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 04:50 AM

lol i've always wanted to go to Detroit and just play in an abandoned building

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#4 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:11 AM

Do you own the building? Or know the person who does? If not, that is tresspassing, and you could be arrested for it. Also for vandalizing their property. Not vandalize as in you guys trash it punching holes in walls, but covering it in paint is vandalism. You may want to check with the owner so no police end up showing up
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#5 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:41 AM

Whether you own it or know the person that does, check you local laws. You may not be allowed to discharge your marker in unapproved areas.
For example, here in Kingston: If you are North of Highway 401 you can play in your back yard, front yard, middle of the street(not recommended by a long shot). South of the 401 though it's against the law. If you're in your own garage and a neighbor complains, well... Tickets, fines, court appearance, jail time are all very possible.

All it takes is ONE cop, or anyone not informed, to drive by and see something suspicious. People in camo skulking around a building can easily be seen as that.
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#6 User is offline   JackRock 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:00 AM

+1 for Puzuma. There may be a legal issue you're setting yourself up for.

Now, as I read the original post, your question boils down to "what can I do to get the owners to let us play there". First thing is to ask. If you want to know how to convince them, well, there are 6+ billion people in the world and each one of them are different. For us to know what it'd take to get these people to let you play there is just impossible.

Go in with your information, safety, answers to potential damage concerns, etc. Let them know that there would be water-soluble paint on the walls. But all in all, be aware that there are just some people in the world that will deny you everything on the basis that they don't think anybody should have a good time. Others will deny you because of reasons they can't give out. Others just won't return your call.

But if you ARE denied, take it with grace, thank them for their time, and save the rest of the conversation for looking for another place to play.
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#7 User is offline   CapnStank 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:48 AM

This is what I would recommend:
1) Speak with the neighbours. Sit down and talk to them logically, don't show up at their door with your marker and say "THIS IS WHAT IT IS, NO HARM, SEE SEE?!" Explain to them about how you'll be save and if any vandalism comes to their properties you will personally take responcibility to right any wrongs. If they are friendly people they will let you do your thing. Maybe cut a deal with them explaining that you will inform them when you'll be playing so they know what is going on. Remember, there are always those people who are far to suspicious and will still say no. If that's the case I'd say you're out of luck. Getting people like that to hate you will just get trouble.

2) As mentioned above make sure you have the property owner's approval as well :D.

3) AFTER convincing the local residents then speak with your local law enforcement (RCMP or otherwise). Explain to them how you've spoken with the residents and they are okay with you using the lot. As long as the popos have no real issue then you'll be okay. I say to speak with them last however because if you go to them first it will go something like this:
-Can we use xxx 1st street for paintball?
Option 1:
Cops: No. Go away.
Option 2:
Cops: Sure, is it okay with the residents?
-Uhh, haven't checked...
Cops: Talk to them 1st.

So then you're back at square 1, where you'll have to go find the neighbours, talk to them, then go back to the cops. In reality the cops don't care what is and is not legal if the local residents are going to complain of trespassing, vandalism, and noise complaints. If you go over their heads it will only mean trouble in the end. Guaranteed.
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#8 User is offline   Snatch_Patcherson 

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:42 PM

View Postbusta, on Jan 14 2009, 05:42 AM, said:

hmmm..sounds good man!! sounds and looks like a place with a lot of potencial. we play around some abandonded factories too. the place we play in used to be a fish farm. i'll try to get some pics up.

that looks like a good place to use cars for playing =P love that.


btw, i was just wondering, how can celcius and fahrenheit be the same temp at -40? that's kinda impossible isn't it?



As for the temperature thing, http://www.learner.org/courses/essential/p...thermometer.jpg
andddd http://twilit.files....thermometer.jpg so as you can see, the -40 on the Celcius/Fahrenheit thermometers match up =)

translation you can little freeze off your DO NOT DODGE THE FILTERS warning issued here =), today was -34 celcius.
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#9 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 05:29 AM

Busta, Don't ask me why -40 is the same. It's just how the math works out. From Celsius to Fahrenheit the formula is (C * 9/5) + 32 To convert the other way (F - 32) * 5/9

If you do get permission to play and the cops are ok with it, make sure you give them notice as to WHEN you will be playing. Give them a written notice indicating the number of players start time and projected end time. This way they can inform their patrols and the switch board so they can be ready for the "guerrillas are attacking!" calls.
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#10 User is offline   josef_k 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 05:43 AM

Also, when you do receive permission, get it in writing! If some malicious property owner, who has something against paintball, verbally tells you "sure" but then goes and calls the cops on you for tresspassing/vandalism, you'll be up a creek without a paddle unless you can show something to the contrary in writing.
There was a group a couple of years back that wanted to do a game in one of the buildings on the edge of downtown Detroit. The property owners were open to the idea provided that they made a little money off of it...until it was determined that the building was no longer structurally sound and the owners' insurance carrier refused to allow it/cover liability for the event.


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#11 User is offline   Archie21 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 09:30 AM

We used to play in an old factory, some great days of paintball were played out there. The guy who owned said it was cool and didnt really care. It was always stand up respectable players that played out there, but one day some punks went out and shot up the brand new in operation factory that was right next door. Well the factory got mad and the one we played in was boarded up and No trespassing signs were posted.

If you can i would try to have a way to close it up when not in use or keep the place on the downlow. It stinks that it only takes one person to ruin a good thing for everyone.

Also factory ball is a whole different game, saw alot of speedball and scenario players come out thinking this was there game and end up getting it handed to them.

Side note: that website with the abondon places is pretty cool, i love exploring out abondon buildings and such.

This post has been edited by Archie21: 15 January 2009 - 09:35 AM

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#12 User is offline   Snatch_Patcherson 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:31 PM

Well turns out the property was sold to the people who owns a small home near it, I've met them before and they're pretty cool, what I'll do is tell them they'll get $10 per person who plays per session, and given that right now there is no where to play in the city it won't take long to have 30+ people there, making for a decent pull for the owner =) gonna talk to them today about it.
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#13 User is offline   Niceguy74 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:47 PM

get the owner hooked on the game....next thing you know its a year round deal, soon a business. good luck.
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#14 User is offline   Snatch_Patcherson 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:51 PM

It'd be nice but a little unlikely, the park in the city has 14 different settings, has been here a long while and has diehard users, and with the insurance rates given to parks without someone with at least 3 years of working in the field you're looking at ridiculous rates. Too bad though considering the guy who owns the place has about 30 acres there including wide open field, forest, light bush, everything ya could ever want.
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#15 User is offline   Violator 

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:48 PM

Aside from the legal concerns, don't forget safety, please. I know you mentioned it, but be extra careful. Many abandoned buildings, even if you have permission and they have been cleared out, can harbor all sots of hazards. Crumbling brick and concrete, decaying wood and rusted metal can all cause stairs and floors to give way, broken glass and jagged metal can cause serious injury, and many old factories and warehouses can have hidden dangers ranging from asbestos to chemicals and heavy metals that can cause all sorts of problems.

Just make sure you know as much as possible about where you might play, and go through the place to make sure it is safe and free from hazards.
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