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#1 User is offline   ChickenNoodle 

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 04:24 PM

I am looking into getting a new gun soon and i cant decide whether or not to get a gun capable of a high ROF, X7 Phenom or Spyder MR2, Or a pump, SL-68 ii and ive heard the phantom is good. Which is the better or the two in either set, or overall? The only thing im possibly worried about is buying a new gun and having something go horribly wrong and it either breaks or i have no idea of how to fix it. My previous gun was a 98 Custom if that helps.
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#2 User is offline   Down Range Pain 

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 04:49 PM

well the SL68 II is a good pump, but the phantom is better...the prices are high for a phanton because of that.

as far or electos go i ve touched one of those sence i was like 12 so i cant give any honest advise.
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#3 User is offline   mike7822 

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 04:56 PM

You'll be more happy with a phantom then with any tippmann or spyder.
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#4 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 05:02 PM

View PostChickenNoodle, on 22 September 2010 - 06:24 PM, said:

Which is the better or the two in either set, or overall?


Of the two semi autos you named, the Phenom wins hands down every time over the MR2.

Now, some questions for you -- Do you have HPA/will be able to get HPA? If so, there's many great choices out there for a fast semi-auto marker. Are you specifically looking for that "milsim" look? If so, you may also want to look at the TM7 and TM15. If not, don't limit yourself to "woodsball" markers - a lot of players have been using electros in the woods.

Now, if you really like the Phenom, go for it. Just making sure you know there's other options as well.

As for the pumps, the phantom is usually considered better. It depends on what you want to do with them though, as both pump choices you mentioned are solid choices. The big advantage of the phantom is lighter weight and it's modular (you can switch between hopper fed and stock class fed). The SL-68 is a hopper fed marker only. On the other hand, the SL-68 is cheaper.

As for pump vs fast marker? Only you can decide that. They have different play styles, and as a result you need to pick the one you want to emulate. A pump player has to be a lot more aggressive to compensate for their lack of firepower, and it generally forces you to become a better player. A fast marker works well for shutting down lanes / denying access of areas to opposing players.

I have fun with both, and I often run my electro like a pump (few well placed shots). And sometimes I run my pump like an electro, without the fast firing rate.

If you have enough self-control for controlling your trigger finger, the only real benefit the pump gets you is lighter weight while you carry less (including a lighter marker, less paint, etc) I happen to like pumps/pistols a lot, so I try to play that way for the sheer fun I get from it. Your results may vary.

In short, I'm trying to tell you only you can decide between a fast marker or a pump. Once you have that nailed down, we can help out more with the specifics.

Quote

The only thing im possibly worried about is buying a new gun and having something go horribly wrong and it either breaks or i have no idea of how to fix it. My previous gun was a 98 Custom if that helps.


All markers come with a manual. If you read it, you'll have some idea how to fix it. Worst case, you always post here with photos of the issue/description and see what someone else knows. The good news is that most of your choices aren't known for issues. The Phenom can be prone to cyclone ratchet breaks, requiring a replacement part inside the cyclone system. The MR2 is a spyder, and spyders have their set of problems that they are prone to.

None of your choices will look exactly like a 98 under the hood, but the MR2 comes closest in rough design (open bolt blowback). The SL-68 is similar in appearance but different in function. The Phantom is based on the Nelson valve, and is fairly simple to learn. It's been a while since I've seen Phenom internals, and even then only online, so I don't recall the exact layout to help you.


Out of your choices, I'd pick either the Phenom or the Phantom. The choice is yours though, and the SL-68 is a great choice too. The only one I'd want to warn you about is the MR2.
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#5 User is offline   ChickenNoodle 

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 05:16 PM

View PostThalion, on 22 September 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostChickenNoodle, on 22 September 2010 - 06:24 PM, said:

Which is the better or the two in either set, or overall?


Of the two semi autos you named, the Phenom wins hands down every time over the MR2.

Now, some questions for you -- Do you have HPA/will be able to get HPA? If so, there's many great choices out there for a fast semi-auto marker. Are you specifically looking for that "milsim" look? If so, you may also want to look at the TM7 and TM15. If not, don't limit yourself to "woodsball" markers - a lot of players have been using electros in the woods.

Now, if you really like the Phenom, go for it. Just making sure you know there's other options as well.

As for the pumps, the phantom is usually considered better. It depends on what you want to do with them though, as both pump choices you mentioned are solid choices. The big advantage of the phantom is lighter weight and it's modular (you can switch between hopper fed and stock class fed). The SL-68 is a hopper fed marker only. On the other hand, the SL-68 is cheaper.

As for pump vs fast marker? Only you can decide that. They have different play styles, and as a result you need to pick the one you want to emulate. A pump player has to be a lot more aggressive to compensate for their lack of firepower, and it generally forces you to become a better player. A fast marker works well for shutting down lanes / denying access of areas to opposing players.

I have fun with both, and I often run my electro like a pump (few well placed shots). And sometimes I run my pump like an electro, without the fast firing rate.

If you have enough self-control for controlling your trigger finger, the only real benefit the pump gets you is lighter weight while you carry less (including a lighter marker, less paint, etc) I happen to like pumps/pistols a lot, so I try to play that way for the sheer fun I get from it. Your results may vary.

In short, I'm trying to tell you only you can decide between a fast marker or a pump. Once you have that nailed down, we can help out more with the specifics.

Quote

The only thing im possibly worried about is buying a new gun and having something go horribly wrong and it either breaks or i have no idea of how to fix it. My previous gun was a 98 Custom if that helps.


All markers come with a manual. If you read it, you'll have some idea how to fix it. Worst case, you always post here with photos of the issue/description and see what someone else knows. The good news is that most of your choices aren't known for issues. The Phenom can be prone to cyclone ratchet breaks, requiring a replacement part inside the cyclone system. The MR2 is a spyder, and spyders have their set of problems that they are prone to.

None of your choices will look exactly like a 98 under the hood, but the MR2 comes closest in rough design (open bolt blowback). The SL-68 is similar in appearance but different in function. The Phantom is based on the Nelson valve, and is fairly simple to learn. It's been a while since I've seen Phenom internals, and even then only online, so I don't recall the exact layout to help you.


Out of your choices, I'd pick either the Phenom or the Phantom. The choice is yours though, and the SL-68 is a great choice too. The only one I'd want to warn you about is the MR2.


Yeah, my only problem with getting a TM7 would be that it costs almost the same as the Phenom, but I'd still need to invest in a good hopper. I'd love to have a gun that can shoot fast, so the Phenom is very appealing, but its a bit pricy for a 17 yr old with a part time job. Which is also why i want a pump, cuz its cheaper to play more often with one. My main concern about the phantom is how easy to use/durable is it? Because ill probably end up letting one of my friends use it or the 98 when we play, and i know you can't do anything to mess up a Tippmann.

Oh, and thank you for the detailed response, it was alot more helpful than the "Buy the Phantom!!!!" comments

This post has been edited by ChickenNoodle: 22 September 2010 - 05:17 PM

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#6 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 05:43 PM

View PostChickenNoodle, on 22 September 2010 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yeah, my only problem with getting a TM7 would be that it costs almost the same as the Phenom, but I'd still need to invest in a good hopper. I'd love to have a gun that can shoot fast, so the Phenom is very appealing, but its a bit pricy for a 17 yr old with a part time job.


Noted with the cost of the hopper.

One thing to note about all of the above (Phenom, TM7, etc) is they all do far better with HPA. If you don't have it yet, you'd want to invest in it for sure. That can run another $100-150 depending on manufacturer and size.

Another option if you're looking on a budget and your main constraint is "fast shooting markers," you can find used ones for less. I know I've seen more than one slightly used/well taken care of Mini going for $200-250. That lower cost buys you the extra cash to get the hopper and still be cash ahead of the new Phenom.

Just something to consider.

Quote

Which is also why i want a pump, cuz its cheaper to play more often with one. My main concern about the phantom is how easy to use/durable is it? Because ill probably end up letting one of my friends use it or the 98 when we play, and i know you can't do anything to mess up a Tippmann.

Oh, and thank you for the detailed response, it was alot more helpful than the "Buy the Phantom!!!!" comments


The phantom is extremely easy to use, and overall it's more durable than your Tippmann 98. If you want to go pump, it is a great choice and can hold up to anything any paintball player may accidentally subject it to while in a paintball field.

If your considering the phantom, the concern shouldn't be durability, but rather what option to go with (tank + hopper, tank + stick feed, true stock class with the stick feed and 12 grams, etc). Honestly, I recommend either using a tank over 12 grams, but if it's going to be run vertically, it should be no bigger than a 9oz CO2 or 13ci HPA (this is more weight concern than functionality, you'll find a massive tank in the vertical position is awfully uncomfortable). Back-bottle or using an ASA at the base of the grip like the majority of markers will be your best bet with a larger tank.

And no problem. "Fanboy" posts (oh, get a <marker> !!! ) really don't help someone pick what's right for them. It helps them pick what was right for someone else. Everybody's different, and if there was a single "best" marker for each price range, than only those markers would be selling these days. The fact that there are so many options is a testament to player's diversity.

If you find what you like, and stick with it, you'll be happiest. My primary semi is an electro from 2004, and still going strong. My pump is based on a design older than you are (even if that specific marker physically is not). Between them they are used about 90% of all paintball games I play, and this year it's at 100% (my poor Tiberius feels unloved, but it will get its moment of glory this weekend)
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#7 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 11:36 AM

Good responses from Thalion as usual... not much I can add.

If you are considering pump play, you may also want to throw the new Traccer into the mix for consideration. There are some really great features included w/ this reincarnation, helps to make it "idiot proof". No offense to you :D, but it's especially helpful if you end up handing it out to friends, makes it less likely for them to mess things up. Just a thought.
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#8 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:28 AM

The trracer and phantom are pretty close to equally "idiot proof." They're both based on the same Nelson valve design.

One thing to consider is that the trracer isn't shipping until November (at least, that's what ANSgear told me when I inquired). If you're interested in it and willing to wait, it may be worthwhile.

If not, the choices you're looking at are solid too.
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#9 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:59 AM

Thalion has everything pretty much covers. The only thing not mentioned is weight.

The phantom is VERY light, some say too light. This can make it hard to aim with but getting a stock helps.

MR2... I'd have to say don't bother with it. The MR4 was release earlier this year. Even with a full 12oz tank I found it to be quite light. It comes with a stock, but I want to replace that witha SPecial Ops stock that will let me sight down the gun. The top of the included stock is level with the top of the marker, this makes it impossible to sight with a mask on. It also has a new valve system. According to Kingman you should be able to get 1800 shots out of a 20oz CO2 tank with their EKO valve system. I haven't tested it myself yet to confirm though.

Though I haven't used it, I'd go for the Phenom. The options of using it as an electro or mechanical marker is a big advantage in my eyes. Batteries dead? Switch to mechanical mode and keep playing. It's also supposed to run well from HPA or CO2, also a good advantage. Tippmann makes a good heavy solid feeling marker and the Phenom can use a ton of the X7 accessories.
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