Special Ops Paintball: SP temporary closure - Special Ops Paintball

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SP temporary closure the SP saga continues...

#16 User is offline   Jackson 

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 10:00 AM

View Postdeltapaintball, on Jan 9 2010, 11:00 AM, said:

I don't bull plop people. There is nothing in it for me to gain. Simply put.



Except you have a lot to lose.

Seriously EVERY TIME you go into a SP thread and post all this praise and garbage, trying to claim you are unbiased only serves to undermine your credibility.


Wait until the end of the month folks. Only then will we see.
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#17 User is offline   Dark Shadow Hunter 

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:18 PM

I have not seen the announcement on their home page. One would think that something like this would be there.
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#18 User is offline   Tommikka 

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 05:27 AM

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on Jan 10 2010, 02:18 AM, said:

I have not seen the announcement on their home page. One would think that something like this would be there.

There is a slight mention from the horses mouth on the BRWP podcasts
http://brwp.net/
I think it was on the 50 cal podcast
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#19 User is offline   deltapaintball 

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:26 PM

View PostJackson, on Jan 9 2010, 12:00 PM, said:

View Postdeltapaintball, on Jan 9 2010, 11:00 AM, said:

I don't bull plop people. There is nothing in it for me to gain. Simply put.



Except you have a lot to lose.

Seriously EVERY TIME you go into a SP thread and post all this praise and garbage, trying to claim you are unbiased only serves to undermine your credibility.


Wait until the end of the month folks. Only then will we see.


I'll be your huckleberry here...

Ask yourself this, if I knew the situation was a lot worse at Smart Parts then people are making it out, don't you think I would of already moved on to another company as a marker sponsor? Not for nothing to any of the other teams that Smart Parts has sponsored, but none of them had the relationship with the company that we do. (Minus AA's, Dynasty and a few others, but none in scenario)

We have never been the last to the table in any of our deals. In this thread, where have I posted all "praise and garbage and tried to claim being unbiased?" I have been stating FACTS that I have been told by senior people at the company. Like I posted before, if you don't believe me, I could care less.

Now with your comments about me having a lot to loose, I already have lost a lot with friends being laid off by the company. People like you couldn't be happier that Smart Parts is going through the current issues. I suppose believing in the company hurts my credibility, and if so, what does that say about yours? You read how bad the evil Smart Parts is and believed everything without bothering to hear the other side. A term comes to mind, Sheeple.

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on Jan 9 2010, 09:18 PM, said:

I have not seen the announcement on their home page. One would think that something like this would be there.


Smart Parts has always had issues with their website. So don't look to much into that issue.
Coming soon.
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#20 User is offline   Steel Tiger 

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:03 PM

View PostBLACK MAMBA, on Jan 8 2010, 08:17 PM, said:

thier not closing. this topic is getting so old, regardless of what smart parts has done and hasnt done, this is a huge blow for paintball as a whole. get off the hate smart parts band wagon already. they are relocating to asia, this does not mean closing. stuntman there are still alot of parts available for sp1 and will continue to be available.


Jeez, a man makes one refrence to smart parts business practices and all of a sudden he's on a bandwagon...

And you see it as a blow, i see it as taking off the handcuffs. ;)
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#21 User is offline   Steel Tiger 

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:11 PM

View Postdeltapaintball, on Jan 10 2010, 09:26 PM, said:

View PostJackson, on Jan 9 2010, 12:00 PM, said:

View Postdeltapaintball, on Jan 9 2010, 11:00 AM, said:

I don't bull plop people. There is nothing in it for me to gain. Simply put.



Except you have a lot to lose.

Seriously EVERY TIME you go into a SP thread and post all this praise and garbage, trying to claim you are unbiased only serves to undermine your credibility.


Wait until the end of the month folks. Only then will we see.


I'll be your huckleberry here...

Ask yourself this, if I knew the situation was a lot worse at Smart Parts then people are making it out, don't you think I would of already moved on to another company as a marker sponsor? Not for nothing to any of the other teams that Smart Parts has sponsored, but none of them had the relationship with the company that we do. (Minus AA's, Dynasty and a few others, but none in scenario)

We have never been the last to the table in any of our deals. In this thread, where have I posted all "praise and garbage and tried to claim being unbiased?" I have been stating FACTS that I have been told by senior people at the company. Like I posted before, if you don't believe me, I could care less.

Now with your comments about me having a lot to loose, I already have lost a lot with friends being laid off by the company. People like you couldn't be happier that Smart Parts is going through the current issues. I suppose believing in the company hurts my credibility, and if so, what does that say about yours? You read how bad the evil Smart Parts is and believed everything without bothering to hear the other side. A term comes to mind, Sheeple.

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on Jan 9 2010, 09:18 PM, said:

I have not seen the announcement on their home page. One would think that something like this would be there.


Smart Parts has always had issues with their website. So don't look to much into that issue.


Well, we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

But i have a problem with the comments i bolded. It's a shame, it truly is, whenever an american worker is laid off and their job is shipped overseas. I personally feel that it is one of the biggest problems america has to face in the coming years.

Regardless, that does not justify Smart Parts' business practices. I've heard and seen both sides of the story, and i think it was a shady deal. The gardeners pulled a fast one. I made up my mind based on the information i was presented with, so i take offense to you calling us "sheeple" just because we dont agree with you.

And obviously you do care about what we think, otherwise you wouldn't have posted in this thread. You would have just waited until the end of the month and let us all find out by ourselves. But you didnt. So cut the "im so tough that i dont care what you think" crap. Or leave the thread. Your choice.

This post has been edited by Steel Tiger: 10 January 2010 - 08:12 PM

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#22 User is offline   UWANNAGO 

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 09:56 PM

Why does every thread that has the name smart parts in it get turned into a debate about shady business practices...its so stupid...smart parts has done more for paintball than you guys could imagine and other companies have done the exact same thing smart parts did and other companies realized smart parts was right and instead of wasting their money on dumb lawsuits they started paying royalties and created successful companies.
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#23 User is offline   Steel Tiger 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 09:43 AM

View PostTeddy K, on Jan 10 2010, 11:56 PM, said:

Why does every thread that has the name smart parts in it get turned into a debate about shady business practices...its so stupid...smart parts has done more for paintball than you guys could imagine and other companies have done the exact same thing smart parts did and other companies realized smart parts was right and instead of wasting their money on dumb lawsuits they started paying royalties and created successful companies.


Because that is the reason why people dont approve of smart parts. And thats why people aren't upset by their closing.

And thats your opinion about what went down. I have a different one. Before the smart parts lawsuit there was more innovation in the paintball market, no doubt about it. If smart parts had never existed, other companies would have done just as much for the sport, except without the shady patents.
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#24 User is offline   UWANNAGO 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:19 AM

View PostSteel Tiger, on Jan 11 2010, 10:43 AM, said:

View PostTeddy K, on Jan 10 2010, 11:56 PM, said:

Why does every thread that has the name smart parts in it get turned into a debate about shady business practices...its so stupid...smart parts has done more for paintball than you guys could imagine and other companies have done the exact same thing smart parts did and other companies realized smart parts was right and instead of wasting their money on dumb lawsuits they started paying royalties and created successful companies.


Because that is the reason why people dont approve of smart parts. And thats why people aren't upset by their closing.

And thats your opinion about what went down. I have a different one. Before the smart parts lawsuit there was more innovation in the paintball market, no doubt about it. If smart parts had never existed, other companies would have done just as much for the sport, except without the shady patents.

People openly shared designs thats well known.

But are you, or anyone for that matter, so naive that you think it makes sense that things shouldnt be patented? If agd or icd had proof that the majority of the intellectual property was theirs or they had created working products prior to smart parts then guess who would have gotten the patent? If the gardners got the patent approved without agd agd icd knowing..ergo not being able to petition it until after it had been granted thats agd and icd fault its not smart parts or anyones responsibility to go around and tell everyone "hey were patenting this so if you want to stop us now is your chance" theres nothing shady about that...anyone with half a mind knows that if you create something new you patent it if you plan on making any sort of money off it or just protecting your intellectual property in general. This isnt a communist society this isnt a utopia people need money to live so they fact that you hold it against someone because they were smart enough to realize paintball was worth the investment, and because of this brought THOUSANDS of people into the sport...supported hundreds of teams, some of the biggest leagues ever known, the greatest paintball event in the world, the most cutting edge guns, and the only gun that can still keep up with todays tourneys that was made in 2003, is absurd. The gardners did that and they created a succesful company that has and continues to give back alot to the paintball community. If you want to discuss why smart parts is shady thats fine, and ill make sure that when I invent a teleporter that ill bounce ideas off you since theres no way you would ever try to patent or make money off such a device.

And for the record they arent closed...they are restructuring which simply means that things are being moved around and they cant conduct business until things are settled.

Edit-And on the note of innovation...what does smart parts have to do with lack of innovation? There is only so much that can be done with paintball guns and in the last few years lots of new companies and guns have popped up...way more than were starting at the time of the smart parts patent issues..

Double Edit-Something I forgot to add was wdp sued smart parts around the same time these lawsuits were going on and wdp won, because they had proof and consequently smart parts stopped using lcd screens...and dye sued them for the ion and won. I think I read somewhere that wgp and wdp got in a lawsuit too I dont really feel like looking that up though.

This post has been edited by Teddy K: 11 January 2010 - 10:59 AM

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#25 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:24 AM

View PostTeddy K, on Jan 10 2010, 08:56 PM, said:

Why does every thread that has the name smart parts in it get turned into a debate about shady business practices...its so stupid...smart parts has done more for paintball than you guys could imagine and other companies have done the exact same thing smart parts did and other companies realized smart parts was right and instead of wasting their money on dumb lawsuits they started paying royalties and created successful companies.

I get sick of it too...the "shady business practices" argument has gotten so old it drives me nuts. I dont even disagree that much, but its old old old news. Yes, we all know some folks still have SP issues...get over it people.
Deltapaintball is doing right by his sponsors and is to be applauded for sticking up for his people, and I get really tired of people constantly attacking him for upholding his sponsorship commitments.
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#26 User is offline   Xakk 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:31 AM

I think they are just working out some kinks. I tell you what though, if they do close, the FIRST thing I am going to do is buy an Ion repair kit and all the parts Ive ever thought I might need that are made by smartparts. Just hoping that everyone else wont be thinking the same thing. :wacko:
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#27 User is offline   Steel Tiger 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:38 AM

View PostTeddy K, on Jan 11 2010, 12:19 PM, said:

View PostSteel Tiger, on Jan 11 2010, 10:43 AM, said:

View PostTeddy K, on Jan 10 2010, 11:56 PM, said:

Why does every thread that has the name smart parts in it get turned into a debate about shady business practices...its so stupid...smart parts has done more for paintball than you guys could imagine and other companies have done the exact same thing smart parts did and other companies realized smart parts was right and instead of wasting their money on dumb lawsuits they started paying royalties and created successful companies.


Because that is the reason why people dont approve of smart parts. And thats why people aren't upset by their closing.

And thats your opinion about what went down. I have a different one. Before the smart parts lawsuit there was more innovation in the paintball market, no doubt about it. If smart parts had never existed, other companies would have done just as much for the sport, except without the shady patents.

People openly shared designs thats well known.

But are you, or anyone for that matter, so naive that you think it makes sense that things shouldnt be patented? If agd or icd had proof that the majority of the intellectual property was theirs or they had created working products prior to smart parts then guess who would have gotten the patent? If the gardners got the patent approved without agd agd icd knowing..ergo not being able to petition it until after it had been granted thats agd and icd fault its not smart parts or anyones responsibility to go around and tell everyone "hey were patenting this so if you want to stop us now is your chance" theres nothing shady about that...anyone with half a mind knows that if you create something new you patent it if you plan on making any sort of money off it or just protecting your intellectual property in general. This isnt a communist society this isnt a utopia people need money to live so they fact that you hold it against someone because they were smart enough to realize paintball was worth the investment, and because of this brought THOUSANDS of people into the sport...supported hundreds of teams, some of the biggest leagues ever known, the greatest paintball event in the world, the most cutting edge guns, and the only gun that can still keep up with todays tourneys that was made in 2003, is absurd. The gardners did that and they created a succesful company that has and continues to give back alot to the paintball community. If you want to discuss why smart parts is shady thats fine, and ill make sure that when I invent a teleporter that ill bounce ideas off you since theres no way you would ever try to patent or make money off such a device.

And for the record they arent closed...they are restructuring which simply means that things are being moved around and they cant conduct business until things are settled.

Edit-And on the note of innovation...what does smart parts have to do with lack of innovation? There is only so much that can be done with paintball guns and in the last few years lots of new companies and guns have popped up...way more than were starting at the time of the smart parts patent issues..

Double Edit-Something I forgot to add was wdp sued smart parts around the same time these lawsuits were going on and wdp won, because they had proof and consequently smart parts stopped using lcd screens...and dye sued them for the ion and won. I think I read somewhere that wgp and wdp got in a lawsuit too I dont really feel like looking that up though.




From what i read, smart parts was patenting a certain part of the electronics, not the electronics in general. Then they switched up their idea, and thus the reason tom kayne cant sell the e-mag. I find that SHADY. So they have a few other competitors and make less money. That doesnt mean that they arent going to make enough money to survive. The fact of the matter is that the gardeners are the reason why you dont see mags for sale inside of every paintball store you walk in. Smart Parts is responsible for that. Its great that they gave back to the paintball world, but that doesn't justify their wrongdoings.

And your "teleport idea" has no impact on this argument. A better model would be that of the invention of the car. Lets say that we are both independently working on the idea to create a car as a better means of transportation. And lets say that i come up with a small part that will be used in my engine thats not in yours. Now does it make more sense for me to patient the whole concept of an engine, or the part i invented? How would you feel if every time you sold one of your cars you had to pay me? Now you understand my point.

For clarification:
Car----> Paintball Marker
Engine------> Electronics

And i believe that this is the beginning of the end for smart parts. Sure, they're currently "restructuring", but how long can they keep their head above water?

The lack of innovation goes back to the engine idea. How motivated are you going to be to make a new car with cutting-edge technology if you have to give me money for every one you sell?

And thanks for background on the history between WGP, WDP, Dye and smart parts. I never heard of that .

And for the record, im going to stop this debate here. Im not going to change your opinion, you aren't going to change mine, so this is pointless. This thing has already gone too far as it is.
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#28 User is offline   UWANNAGO 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 12:30 PM

Indeed.

One last thing just to clarify.

It was the electronic trigger that they were suing for they had patented it and they went after every company with an electric gun at the time.

The offer was ridiculous it was like pay us 100,000 or $70 for every gun you sell or well sue you...a few companies negotiated a deal and 2 sued...agd and icd they lost.
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#29 User is offline   Steel Tiger 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 12:47 PM

View PostTeddy K, on Jan 11 2010, 02:30 PM, said:

Indeed.

One last thing just to clarify.

It was the electronic trigger that they were suing for they had patented it and they went after every company with an electric gun at the time.

The offer was ridiculous it was like pay us 100,000 or $70 for every gun you sell or well sue you...a few companies negotiated a deal and 2 sued...agd and icd they lost.



Ah yes. It was the trigger. I forgot which part it actually was.
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#30 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 01:06 PM

Quite frankly I get tired when people want to discuss SP and then get spammed by SP haters.

Anyways it took me awhile to find this Tom Kaye info but here's an email Realtor Tommy recieved from him a while back. This is what happened to the E-mag.

Quote

From: "Tom Kaye" <tom@TomKaye.com>View contact details To: "tommy long" - business address deleted-It was not SP directly but they did send us a notice of infraction on their patents. The emag was barely profitable when we sold it for 800 bucks wholesale. There is no way to produce it in this country today for any price people would be willing to pay. It was a combination of things that sunk our ship. As you can see SP could not sell a gun for 200 bucks and make money either.

Tom


So for Pete's sake SP haters I think Tom Kaye knows more about the AGD facts than the rumor mill.

.

This post has been edited by slinkyaroo: 11 January 2010 - 01:50 PM

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