Special Ops Paintball: HPA - Special Ops Paintball

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#1 User is offline   CONFIRMEDKILL 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:43 AM

So I've decided I would rather use an HPA tank on my Automag, instead of the Co2 I'd been using previously. I went to Action Village, and found a number of very affordable tanks. The problem is, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at.

For instance, I've been told a "fixed" tank is a tank with a very specific output, and needs to be matched to the gun it will be used with. However, the Guerilla Air tank I've been looking at claims to work equally well on both my Automag, and my Spyder. I hope to purchase some higher-end markers, including another Automag, and though I'd like the tanks to be universal use for all my markers, I have a feeling it isn't that easy.

Anybody able to clarify?
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#2 User is offline   Maj Tom 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:58 AM

You'll just need a High pressure preset tank. "Matching" is only making sure the output of the tank can supply the marker with enough pressure to operate.
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#3 User is offline   5N1P3R 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:25 PM

I would recommend a Ninja tank over a guerrilla one though. Amazing customer service from ninja, you can set the pressure of your ninja reg (thats a plus for mags) and it is completely rebuildable by the user. Oh and its made in the US :tup:
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#4 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:43 PM

I thought automags liked extra kick. 850psi +. Some prefer 950 +
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#5 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:45 PM

View Postslinkyaroo, on 25 August 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

I thought automags liked extra kick. 850psi +. Some prefer 950 +


Some Ninja regs are adjustable up to even that realm.

And I think that's only if they want fairly rapid ROF, and that it was possible to shoot one at normal speeds with just a standard high output tank reg. But I could be wrong.
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#6 User is offline   CONFIRMEDKILL 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:05 PM

I'll definitely look at the Ninja tanks, they sound good.

And as for my 'mag, I run a basic level 7 classic valve, so I'm not sure what kind of pressure it likes, but I'm not using an RT, or ULT kit, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

So are most in agreement that this is the tank for me? Is it adjustable?

This post has been edited by CONFIRMEDKILL: 25 August 2010 - 03:06 PM

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#7 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 04:24 PM

As long as the output pressure is 800psi+, you'll be fine with your Mag. One note, since the Mag is a high pressure marker, once your tank gets below 1000psi, you'll begin to notice a dropoff in velocity & the marker will not fire when the pressure in the tank falls below the output pressure.

Mags are gas-hogs, so don't a 3000psi tank, get a 4500.
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#8 User is offline   CONFIRMEDKILL 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 07:31 PM

Though I would like to go the route of the 4500, many of the games I play are not anywhere near a fill station, and the only convenient source of more air are scuba tanks. As far as I know, if I was to get a 4500, I still wouldn't be able to get the pressure above 3000 psi. With that in mind, I decided to go with the 3000, simply because it's cheaper, and it's basically all I need.

If I could find a carbon fiber tank around $50-70, I'd be on it, but I think an aluminum 3000 will probably suit my needs.
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#9 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:48 AM

I believe just about all the 3000psi tanks are metal anyway - I would definitely keep the 4500 on your list for a future purchase, since you never know when you'll make it to a field that will fill to 4500 (and depending on your style of play, a 3000psi fill with get you about a hopper & two - 3 pods before you'll be out of air).
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#10 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:40 AM

I have a 48/3k steely I use on my mag for smaller games (I get about 400 shots out of it), fortunately the fill station is an 80' walk from the entrance to the field I play at so no biggie.

You can still find the occasional carbon fiber 3k around, I don't know of anyone making them new anymore though. RE: purchasing a 4.5k, the nice thing about having one of those is even if you can only get 3k fills at present you can still get it in the 4.5k tank, but then your golden if you ever do have the opportunity to get a 4.5k fill. The reverse isn't true if you only have a 3k tank.

Keep an eye out on ebay & the various bst's. When I first started years ago I got a like new 72/3k steely for 80 bucks on ebay - about 18 months ago I found a used 68/4.5 CF tank for 70 bucks in the bst's here. You can find quality air tanks in your price range, just keep looking.
ger
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#11 User is offline   CONFIRMEDKILL 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:15 AM

View Postger, on 26 August 2010 - 10:40 AM, said:

I have a 48/3k steely I use on my mag for smaller games (I get about 400 shots out of it), fortunately the fill station is an 80' walk from the entrance to the field I play at so no biggie.

You can still find the occasional carbon fiber 3k around, I don't know of anyone making them new anymore though. RE: purchasing a 4.5k, the nice thing about having one of those is even if you can only get 3k fills at present you can still get it in the 4.5k tank, but then your golden if you ever do have the opportunity to get a 4.5k fill. The reverse isn't true if you only have a 3k tank.

Keep an eye out on ebay & the various bst's. When I first started years ago I got a like new 72/3k steely for 80 bucks on ebay - about 18 months ago I found a used 68/4.5 CF tank for 70 bucks in the bst's here. You can find quality air tanks in your price range, just keep looking.

I actually won't have the ability to paintball for a little while, so maybe I'll hold onto my money and look around for a used 4.5k... I'd be much appreciative if somebody could pm me with any deals they happen upon, and don't want for themselves....
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#12 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

View PostThalion, on 25 August 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:

View Postslinkyaroo, on 25 August 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

I thought automags liked extra kick. 850psi +. Some prefer 950 +


Some Ninja regs are adjustable up to even that realm.

And I think that's only if they want fairly rapid ROF, and that it was possible to shoot one at normal speeds with just a standard high output tank reg. But I could be wrong.


OHHH, Do I get to school old thalion on mag knowledge?
THIS is what i'v been waiting for all my life! :P

The imput pressure changes two main things,
1) the Reactivity of the RT trigger, ( this is used to achieve higher rates of fire)
2) to change the velocity fluctuations while firing.

Example: If you set it to a lower pressure ( around 850 PSI) the valve acts like a regular marker, the faster you shoot, the more drop down you get.
( not alot, but on the chrono its noticable)

at medium pressure your first shot will be at your highest velocity, then as you increase BPS the velocity will drop, and slowly rise back to the maximum ( first shot)

High pressure is where the mag shines, when taking your time, each shot is consistent. but as you raise your Cycles per second, the higher your velocity raises.


Quote

Colour key: Red is when you wait for a few seconds in between shots.

Blue is when you are increasing your rate of fire.

Black is a constant rate of fire.

For high input pressure: When firing at a rate of 2 shots per second or slower the X-valve will maintain constant velocities. When shooting at rates of 3 shots per second or more, the X-valve will record velocities closer to your maximum fire rate.

This means that when you take your time, each shot will be consistent, But when you increase your rate of fire the velocity increases also.

Example of FPS: target velocity 280

265......265...268,273,278,282,281,279,278,280,279

For Medium pressure input: when you shoot and then wait 10 seconds the velocities will be the same as your maximum rate of fire. Although when increasing your rate of fire the velocity will drop, and then raise until you reach you maximum rate of fire velocity. This is great for rapid firing, because your first shot will land at your maximum rate of fire.

Example of FPS: Target velocity 280.

278......279..276,267,269,273,275,279,281,278,280

Low input pressure: your first shot will be the highest velocity, any proceeding shots without waiting will be lower. This works well for players who want to pick their shots. this reacts more like a regular paintball marker, the faster you shoot the lower your velocity. although the Drop is not much, it is still somewhat significant on the chronograph.

Example of FPS; Target velocity 280

279....278..277,276,275,273,271,269,270,271,269


Written by,
Me.

as for a tank, Get at least 1 68/4500 if you plan on using a mag later on, especially if your looking at a RT or X-valve. and one with a Ninja Reg, so you can adjust the velocity to what you want.

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 27 August 2010 - 12:22 PM

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#13 User is offline   chinstrap 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 12:41 PM

View PostCONFIRMEDKILL, on 26 August 2010 - 02:15 PM, said:

I'd be much appreciative if somebody could pm me with any deals they happen upon, and don't want for themselves....


If you're not dead-set on a Ninja and are strapped for cash, there's a solid deal here.

If you can afford a brand new Ninja though, I'd get one direct from them. Don't bother buying it from AVI or some other middleman.

I would also recommend that, if you intend to be a 'mag enthusiast, go with a 90/45. Ninja's 90/45s are only 1.5 inches longer than their 68/45s and both have the same diameter. Invest in a small drop-forward if you need to.

Off a 3000PSI fill, the 90 will give you 200+ more shots and 300+ more shots off a 4500PSI fill.
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#14 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 07:34 AM

View PostEskimo, on 27 August 2010 - 02:20 PM, said:

OHHH, Do I get to school old thalion on mag knowledge?
THIS is what i'v been waiting for all my life! :P


Yeah, you get to. Actually, if you want to really be surprised, old Thalion's never actually owned a mag. I've just read around here/looked at diagrams/etc.

Never really taken one apart, never really owned one.

Quote

The imput pressure changes two main things,
1) the Reactivity of the RT trigger, ( this is used to achieve higher rates of fire)
2) to change the velocity fluctuations while firing.

Example: If you set it to a lower pressure ( around 850 PSI) the valve acts like a regular marker, the faster you shoot, the more drop down you get.
( not alot, but on the chrono its noticable)

at medium pressure your first shot will be at your highest velocity, then as you increase BPS the velocity will drop, and slowly rise back to the maximum ( first shot)


I was thinking of #1 there. Did not know about #2

Good information to be had in the post. Thanks for the clarification and the numbers (out of curiosity, was that actual tests you've done, or a realistic ballpark of what it would look like?)
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#15 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:07 AM

View PostThalion, on 28 August 2010 - 08:34 AM, said:


I was thinking of #1 there. Did not know about #2

Good information to be had in the post. Thanks for the clarification and the numbers (out of curiosity, was that actual tests you've done, or a realistic ballpark of what it would look like?)


lil of both, The 850 and 950 PSI ratings ( low and medium) I had a buddy call them out, those numbers are straight from my Tac One Review on the forum, the high was just a ball park as I didn't have a tank nearby pushing 1000 PSI.

( I did throw out a few numbers here and there to make it look better, And I was using a 14" CP barrel at "0.685" with Evil Tournament paint.
So I basically did my best to get the best results, doing so to show the awesomeness of the valve when you get a nice barrel and paint.)

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