Special Ops Paintball: Longer Barrel - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Longer Barrel Wastes more air? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   The Scout 

  • Penny for the gurney
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,651
  • Joined: 28-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon, Pennsylvania
  • Brigade Name:The Scout

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:15 PM

Alright I asked this question over a year ago and never really got a straight answer. I read all the time that a barrel longer than 14" causes your gun to use more gas to propel your paintball. My question to this is why it uses more air? A gun isn't alive so how does it sense to use more air to accomadate a larger barrel? Since there really isn't an improvement in distance why does it use more air? Whats the difference between the barrel being surrounded by a few more inches of metal or being out in the air? The velocity setting was still the same, what reason does the gun have for using more air to propel the paintball?
Official Pump Owner #98
"Maybe God keeps us on earth, just like we have beef farms for cows. Then, when we die he eats us... I just freaked myself out. Be right back, I gotta go pray"-Kook
0

#2 User is offline   CertifiedPaintballer 

  • Forum Newbie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,612
  • Joined: 04-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northampton, PA
  • Brigade Name:certified paintballer

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:19 PM

I think this is why...not totally sure though.

Because you'll have to turn your velocity up higher to get, lets say 280fps, while using a 21" barrel than using a 14" barrel.

So, to get 280fps while using a 21" barrel, you will have to turn your velocity up higher than if you were trying to shoot 280fps with a 14" barrel.

EDIT: and the reason you have to turn the velocity up higher is the reason Infamous 51 just said in the post below.

This post has been edited by CertifiedPaintballer: 06 August 2008 - 04:22 PM

0

#3 User is offline   Infamous_51 

  • official rock and roll clown
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 579
  • Joined: 15-April 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:place you neva heard of, minnesota

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:21 PM

More gas escapes so, meaning less air is pushing out ball, therefore must turn up velocty

-keep it :mellow:

(Go sig yourself) Maybe I will...Maybe I will..........-Epic_fail
0

#4 User is offline   Tenacious221 

  • ELITE Member, now with matching elite patch!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 10,086
  • Joined: 22-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kirkwood MO
  • Brigade Name:Tenacious221

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:22 PM

Technically yes...

are you going to notice? Technically no...

:blink:

-Tenacious
0

#5 User is offline   The Scout 

  • Penny for the gurney
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,651
  • Joined: 28-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon, Pennsylvania
  • Brigade Name:The Scout

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:22 PM

Why will you have to turn the velocity up though? Sure your gun is longer but so what, the paintball would either be out in the open or wrapped in metal for a little longer. It's not traveling any farther so what the deuce makes it waste more gas?

Nevermind, just read the posts, so instead of the gas giving one strong burst with a shorter barrel its spreads out more?

This post has been edited by The Scout: 06 August 2008 - 04:23 PM

Official Pump Owner #98
"Maybe God keeps us on earth, just like we have beef farms for cows. Then, when we die he eats us... I just freaked myself out. Be right back, I gotta go pray"-Kook
0

#6 User is offline   Jonas 

  • Woodsball? Sounds fun.
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 442
  • Joined: 20-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Brigade Name:H

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:31 PM

It requires less air to push it out the barrel, all the air has to go somewhere, so it leaves through the barrel, taking the ball with it. In return, the ball comes out at a lower fps because it slows tremendously on it's way out. More air is needed to speed it up and get it out the barrel at the wanted fps.
Yeah I use an M-16 grip, wanna fight about it?

Best webcomic ever.
0

#7 User is offline   Piller 

  • Piller
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,363
  • Joined: 23-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Within range
  • Brigade Name:Piller

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:38 PM

Every time you fire a burst of compressed gas is released. It takes about 8-12 inches for that compressed gas to decompress into the same pressure as the atmosphere. It is the expansion of that gas which causes the paintball to be shot out as your desired velocity. After that 8-12 inches (some people say 14, but even 14'' barrels are stretching it) the gas has expanded completely and it is done propelling the paintball. Any extra length is just space where the paintball is just sliding down the barrel. The extra length puts drag on the paintball and slows it down. So in turn, you have to use more air (buy turning up your velocity) in order to compensate for the drag induced by the extra length.

If porting is placed before the initial 8-12 inches it will allow that expanding gas to escape and that can really reduce air efficiency. Smoother barrel materials like stainless steel and brass can increase air efficiency. CO2 tends to expand a little slower when its cold out. So if your using liquid CO2 or playing with CO2 in very cold conditions a longer barrel of around 12''-14'' may be more efficient.
Automaggot #123 - Pump User #152 - ICE Epic Owner
"Marketing hype in paintball?! The nerve of some people. After all, we paintballers would never throw our hard earned cash into the magic box of marketing hype."
0

#8 User is offline   p8blr 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 23-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kansas
  • Brigade Name:pbrules15

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:43 PM

Longer barrel = more friction on the ball when exiting the barrel - Resulting in lower FPS.
To combat this, the user must increase his/her velocity.
The higher the velocity, the more air you will use.

IMO the longest barrel you would ever want to consider is a 14". Over that and it's just too much, you do not really gain anything.
0

#9 User is offline   JackRock 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,323
  • Joined: 01-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO
  • Brigade Name:JackRock

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:49 PM

Okay. Long version.

What all these statements refer to is that the longer barrel uses more gas at the same velocity. The longer barrel causes excessive drag as it is no longer accelerating the ball, unless you throw more air behind it.

So, the 12" barel, adjusted to 285fps, will use X amount of air. Take the same marker and paint, and put on a 18" barrel, and the fps drops to about 270. So, in order to get the velocity back up to 285fps, you need to increase the air behind the ball (adjust it up). This in turn leads to higher air consumption.

A5s, X7s, and 98s without an RVA need not apply to this rule, as they use different adjustment methods.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My sig is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My sig, without me, is useless. Without my sig, I am useless. I must type my sig true. I must spell better than my enemy who is trying to judge me. I must type before he ridicules me. I WILL... My sig and I know that what counts in this forum is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the splatter we make. We know that it is the hits that count. WE WILL HIT... Before the Admins, I swear this creed. My sig and myself are the defenders of my forum. We are the masters of our enemy. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY PROFILE. - Tippmann Owner #pi
0

#10 User is offline   Florentine 

  • Group: Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,356
  • Joined: 27-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pennsylvania

Posted 07 August 2008 - 07:48 AM

And isn't it the same problem with shorter barrels? The shorter it is, the more push the ball needs, thus requiring more air. Think about it, after 14", the paintball will be going at maximum velocity, but anything before that will be lower. So take a 14" barrel, and a 8" barrel and shoot them from the same gun one after another, I can guarantee that the 8" will be slower. I did that with my dye UL, I unscrewed the front and fired, it went about 35 yards, then I put the front on and it went at least 45+ yards. The longer the barrel, the faster it will shoot with less gas being used, but go too far, and you will start wasting gas.
Hey baby, wanna come over to myspace so i can twitter your yahoo till I google all over your facebook?
Feedback

Becc: "I'm not really a vegetarian, I eat some forms of sausage."
0

#11 User is offline   Jonas 

  • Woodsball? Sounds fun.
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 442
  • Joined: 20-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Brigade Name:H

Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:35 AM

I just thought of something. Wouldn't having a smoother barrel (*cough*brass*cough*) increase air efficiency due to the reduced friction on the ball, therefore allowing it to move along without as much resistance, hence not as much air required to push it out?
Yeah I use an M-16 grip, wanna fight about it?

Best webcomic ever.
0

#12 User is offline   Steed 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,028
  • Joined: 26-July 05

Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:38 AM

Ok I'm going to keep it short, well short for me atleast...

The shortest barrel you want is 10", that is the maximum effeciency point and accuracy, with a 10" you will notice inconcistancy but not much. The general accepted length is 14" ported, that's 14" tip to tip with porting at the end, once air hits that porting preasure is lost lowering effiecentcy but improving stability and reducing sound, it's an equalizer. Now you can get away with a 10" barrel (CP makes/made one) but that 10" doesn't leave alot of room for utility, moving bunkers (Air), brush or wrapping and with any porting it'll have low consistancy. That's why I like a 14" ported, it's long enough to get around bunkers and the right balance of air use and accuracy.
Now with longer barrels there is a better target grouping and smaller circle but the changes between lengths is so unnoticable that most people don't see it, if you took a 12" against a 21" the 21" will be SLIGHTLY more consistant (Yes this is a TK finding) but the extra air required (ALOT) and extra length (combursome) make it less effective.
0

#13 User is offline   Jonas 

  • Woodsball? Sounds fun.
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 442
  • Joined: 20-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Brigade Name:H

Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:47 AM

I'm sure that the longer the barrel, the long the recharge rate of the CO2 (if you're using that) would be, so it would take longer to shoot the same consistence fps. But a shorter barrel would require less recharge time, since it doesn't need as much air to push it out of the barrel. Hmmm, that might come in handy some day.
Yeah I use an M-16 grip, wanna fight about it?

Best webcomic ever.
0

#14 User is offline   Florentine 

  • Group: Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,356
  • Joined: 27-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pennsylvania

Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:59 AM

View PostPiller, on Aug 6 2008, 07:38 PM, said:

Smoother barrel materials like stainless steel and brass can increase air efficiency.



View PostJonas, on Aug 7 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

I just thought of something. Wouldn't having a smoother barrel (*cough*brass*cough*) increase air efficiency due to the reduced friction on the ball, therefore allowing it to move along without as much resistance, hence not as much air required to push it out?

Hey baby, wanna come over to myspace so i can twitter your yahoo till I google all over your facebook?
Feedback

Becc: "I'm not really a vegetarian, I eat some forms of sausage."
0

#15 User is offline   Piller 

  • Piller
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,363
  • Joined: 23-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Within range
  • Brigade Name:Piller

Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:09 AM

There is no perfect distance. It really depends on the valve system. In most cases 10'' is going to be the most efficient length. It's what Palmer's has found to be most efficient on their markers, it's what is found to be most efficient on CCI Phantoms (11'' - 1'' of porting), and it is what Tom Kaye says to be most efficient on Automags. Markers running on liquid CO2 can often benefit from a slightly longer barrel.

In fact, Tom Kaye has a pretty good article on barrel efficiency: http://www.automags.org/resource/tech/toms...arrel_eff.shtml

That's an interesting result for the Ultralight - since the front portion of the is ported and never actually touches the paintball. I don't even think the back portion is a full 8'' like a lot of 2-piece barrels.

There's no recharge time since barrels aren't regulators. CO2 has been tested to be capable of recharging plenty fast for any paintball use anyways. Palmer's can fire 60bps on their custom 3 barreled Grinder with no velocity drop off. Since barrels don't really change they also have very little to do with consistency.

It's not like it really matters anyways. The differences are pretty small. If you like a 14'' barrel with porting and it works for you go for it. If you like a 10'' unported barrel go for it. There's not going to be a noticeable difference in consistency or accuracy unless there's a dramatic difference in the build quality of the barrel. So long as both barrels have at least an 8 inch unported section to begin with, they are both going to perform similarly to the point where no human could tell the difference.

This post has been edited by Piller: 07 August 2008 - 11:10 AM

Automaggot #123 - Pump User #152 - ICE Epic Owner
"Marketing hype in paintball?! The nerve of some people. After all, we paintballers would never throw our hard earned cash into the magic box of marketing hype."
0

Share this topic:


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users