Special Ops Paintball: .50 Caliber - Special Ops Paintball

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.50 Caliber The new standard?

#136 User is offline   ike123 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 07:53 PM

View Postdruid, on Nov 10 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

.....which is why no one has responded to my "take a 450 fps shot to the head at 11 feet" comment.......

That's because it's stupid. Take a .68 from 11 feet and its going to hurt too. I've done it, I know. By the logic of that statement, we should be throwing big squishy balls at each other. Since you know, it'll hurt less. :P


As for the physics, I haven't done them myself. I based my statement based on statements made by others, which I have assumed is right. If they aren't, then oh well. I'm perfectly willing to be wrong.
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#137 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 12:00 AM

View Postike123, on Nov 13 2009, 09:53 PM, said:

View Postdruid, on Nov 10 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

.....which is why no one has responded to my "take a 450 fps shot to the head at 11 feet" comment.......

That's because it's stupid. Take a .68 from 11 feet and its going to hurt too. I've done it, I know. By the logic of that statement, we should be throwing big squishy balls at each other. Since you know, it'll hurt less. :(


As for the physics, I haven't done them myself. I based my statement based on statements made by others, which I have assumed is right. If they aren't, then oh well. I'm perfectly willing to be wrong.



The entire MATTER is stupid. Everyone wants a "cheaper" sport but thinks NOTHING of how it will [adversely] affect their game. All they are looking at is the dollar signs and if that's the case, this is the WRONG sport to play.

And the reason I said take a shot from a 400+ fps shot at 11 feet is because it's going to hurt a HELLuva lot MORE than the 68 fired at normal [under 301fps] speeds...and you KNOW it.

But this isn't about personal comforts or personal pain thresholds...this is about SAFETY. Click my attachment to see my reference...

Each 22FPS=15MPH. For a paintball moving at 432 FPS, that means it's moving at 295 MILES per hour. In contrast to what we use right now...295 FPS equalling 201 MPH. All that [ADDITIONAL] force means additional blunt trauma to the maks, lens and the head wearing it.
Masks are rated to 300fps because of the impact it can take at that speed. What concerns me most [about 'upping' the FPS is what happens when that energy is transferred to the underlying body part - our head. We cannot allow the speeds to be raised.

You cannot safely raise the fps for the 50 BCEAUSE there are going to be CLOSE engagements. There isn't anyone around that has the self-control NOT to shoot someone from closer than ___ feet, no matter HOW good their intentions are OR how ethically they play their game. It's GOING to happen and because of that, the rasied fps suggestion should NOT be a consideration AT ALL.

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This post has been edited by druid: 16 November 2009 - 12:24 AM

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#138 Guest_Schecter_*

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:35 AM

.50 cal paintballs break just fine. It's like buying a case of monster ball paintballs and trying to say paintballs don't break.

People are searching for any reason they can to keep from buying this because they don't want their current gun to become obsolete and have to buy something else. But, this is the story of all paintball guns, the autococker, viking, shocker 4x4, all gone the way of the dodo but no one really said anything.
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#139 User is offline   Mitch Force 

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 06:32 AM

View PostSchecter, on Nov 16 2009, 05:35 AM, said:

.50 cal paintballs break just fine. It's like buying a case of monster ball paintballs and trying to say paintballs don't break.

...


:laugh:

That was a joke right?
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#140 User is offline   FIFTY CAL 

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 07:32 AM

View PostTim Burton, on Jul 21 2009, 02:07 AM, said:

http://gimilsim.com/wind-of-change-the-rev...ion-starts-here

http://viewfromthede...earch?q=caliber

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showpo...mp;postcount=93

Now, I know after reading a number of posts on other sites that they claim the physics fail. Either it won't be as accurate or it will not break correctly. Others say it will be too painful. It seems the guys saying this is the revolution have a well respected reputation.

Honestly, at this point I don't think we can do physics calculations, because there are too many unkowns. Is the fill heavier? Is the shell able to crack better?

This will need to be answered. I'm sure word will get out quickly in October if this development is worthy of being revolutionary. People will review these guns and people will ultimately tell us if this is something that will be a must have upgrade or just a gimmick.

I for one would happily support a paintball that is just as safe, no more painful, flies farther and is much more accurate, especially if it is milsim. I don't want a REMF (Rear Echelon Major Fool) add-ons, like so many have. I just want something that feels more like a rifle than a space gun and something that shoots better than present balls do.

I'd love to be able to expand accurate fire out another 50% or more.

I look forward to October to hear what is being developed.



Well...... Its november now and nothing has changed. It doesnt look like the entire paintball world is going to revamp every single marker, Hopper, Magazine, Pod, Barrel, Bolt, Feedneck, etc.

That my friends would be the biggest pain the donk(ey). If this were to happen, it would very likely push me out of the sport. No way can i afford to buy all my equipment over again just because they (who ever they is) decided to change the standard of paint.
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#141 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 12:25 PM

View PostSchecter, on Nov 16 2009, 06:35 AM, said:

.50 cal paintballs break just fine. It's like buying a case of monster ball paintballs and trying to say paintballs don't break.
Have you used them yet? They take more force to break than .68 cal balls do in every drop test I've seen.

People are searching for any reason they can to keep from buying this because they don't want their current gun to become obsolete and have to buy something else. But, this is the story of all paintball guns, the autococker, viking, shocker 4x4, all gone the way of the dodo but no one really said anything.

People still use autocockers, vikings, and shocker 4x4's. They aren't obsolete, just outdated.

View PostMitch Force, on Nov 16 2009, 07:32 AM, said:

View PostSchecter, on Nov 16 2009, 05:35 AM, said:

.50 cal paintballs break just fine. It's like buying a case of monster ball paintballs and trying to say paintballs don't break.

...


:)

That was a joke right?

;)
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#142 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 03:47 AM

So, we want to grow the sport by making new players buy paint that doesn't fly as far, doesn't consistently break at typical engagement distances (especially in woodsball), and puts them at a major disadvantage playing against .68-equipped players.

Owning about 13 markers myself, and now playing pump almost exclusively - what motivation do I have to change?

I've been around long enough to have seen the format battles back in the late 80's, early 90's when there were a multitude of calibers out there (yes, including .50). At the end of the day, .68 was judged to be the best option - since it combined the best range, breakability, and ease of production.

Paintball prices have dropped significantly over the years (from over $100 per case for crud paint back in the day). If whitebox paint hasn't encouraged more players to come out, then I can't imagine that stuff that is the same price, but performs worse (and necessitates buying new markers or kits) is going to get more people on the fields either.
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#143 User is offline   RockFish 

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 06:06 PM

Has anybody taken a look at Painthappy's .50 cal tests over on YouTube? Those will show you everything you need to know.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=LoB-5V-FENQ
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=E87Gw3OKxa4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E4GVUI8txM...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZabfFBZ0bQ...feature=related
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#144 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 07:23 PM

Thanks for those links RockFish. Very telling.
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#145 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:36 PM

View Postdruid, on Nov 10 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

People are also not taking into account...when you up the velocity to 450, that's to meet a current joule force of a 68 AT DISTANCE.....the typical MAXIMUM distance the 68 will break.

For argument's sake, let's assume that in order to break paint:

.50 @ 450 MV @ 140 feet will equal
.68 @ 300 MV @ 140 feet in force/joules needed to accomplish that same goal.

Now bring that closer...
.50 @ 450 MV @ 70 feet still [may] equate to 350fps
.68 @ 300 MV @ 70 feet is whatever it stillis...let's say 225-250fps.

^^ These are NOT the actual numbers but they are within reason for assumptive purposes...

Even at that distance, the 50 still breaches the safety rule on masks...

.....which is why no one has responded to my "take a 450 fps shot to the head at 11 feet" comment.......


450fps on a 50 cal is still less joules than a 68 cal at 280fps. To get the same energy in 50 cal you need to be at 483fps.

So 450fps is an adjustment to make sure it has less energy than 68 at 280fps.

See the calculations here: http://www.x7og.net/general-paintball-rela...ance-calcs.html
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#146 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:29 PM

It doesn't really matter. Insurance companies will never allow it...nor should they...nor should we be clammoring to [re]introduce a substandard paintball just to save a few bucks...

You want to save some money? Stop trying to shoot 500 balls per second.......
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#147 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:58 PM

View Postdruid, on Nov 22 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

It doesn't really matter. Insurance companies will never allow it...nor should they...nor should we be clammoring to [re]introduce a substandard paintball just to save a few bucks...

You want to save some money? Stop trying to shoot 500 balls per second.......



....and the devs of .50 don't want it to compete with .68? they're trying (from my understanding) to market in a niche- specifically, to countries where paintball is currently banned because of draconian gun laws and to first-timers because of the 'reduced mass, reduced pain' theory. It's not meant to be released to the general population, and any sales they make to us types is just gravy to them.
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#148 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:38 AM

I with that was the case - but it is still being marketed as "The .50 Caliber REVOLUTION!!!!" What you said makes perfect sense - and exactly how it should have been marketed in the first place. But, GI Milsim has flat out stated in the past - "They want .50 to be the new format for the game & replace .68 entirely."

Why do you think there has been so much pushback from the players in general - when someone tells me they want to replace the standard with an inferior product & force me to buy all new equipment to shoot "their" paint - I get a little annoyed.
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#149 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 11:45 AM

View PostLoneWolf99, on Nov 23 2009, 03:38 AM, said:

I with that was the case - but it is still being marketed as "The .50 Caliber REVOLUTION!!!!" What you said makes perfect sense - and exactly how it should have been marketed in the first place. But, GI Milsim has flat out stated in the past - "They want .50 to be the new format for the game & replace .68 entirely."

Why do you think there has been so much pushback from the players in general - when someone tells me they want to replace the standard with an inferior product & force me to buy all new equipment to shoot "their" paint - I get a little annoyed.


I'll awnser them in backwards order.

the players is two reasons. first, people don't like SP. they see that Smart parts is a driving force behind this, and they hate. even if .50 had lived up to all the hype, people would still hate. the second is, as much as people in the sport hate to admit it, they think change is scary and the status quo needs to be maintained till the sport dies from stagnation.

and yeah, it was (and still is) being marketed in retarded ways, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with you there. Again, see smart parts and anything they've ever marketed ever. though I'd be firing my marketing team if i was italia right now, especially after the ballistic and break tests started getting out.

But, the sad part is, for all the backlash, and despite the tests, there are going to be people who buy the hype, and waste their cash on this poo.
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#150 User is offline   druid 

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:59 AM

View PostEthrealwolf, on Nov 23 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

I'll awnser them in backwards order.

1. the players is two reasons. first, people don't like SP. they see that Smart parts is a driving force behind this, and they hate.

2. even if .50 had lived up to all the hype, people would still hate.

3. the second is, as much as people in the sport hate to admit it, they think change is scary and the status quo needs to be maintained till the sport dies from stagnation.

4. and yeah, it was (and still is) being marketed in retarded ways, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with you there.

5. Again, see smart parts and anything they've ever marketed ever. though I'd be firing my marketing team if i was italia right now, especially after the ballistic and break tests started getting out.

6. But, the sad part is, for all the backlash, and despite the tests, there are going to be people who buy the hype, and waste their cash on this poo.


1. I could live with what you say except that I'm NOT one of the SP 'haters"...nor do I hate Kingman...

I hate the .50 cal because I don't care what they claim they can do with the formula, it's still going to suck. It did before and it will again. We already have statistics that show it to [of this new batch] and even you must admit it's lacking in most every aspect of the 68 counterpart save one...efficiency----but ONLY efficient in THEIR produiced marker...

2. It IS hype...and it CAN'T live up to their claim....not in retrofit kits and not unless they create some miracle recipe [which they haven't done YET for the 68 BTW]...it's a mess waiting to happen.

3. I could also live with what you say, except that there are just some things best left untouched. Sometimes that car with a window crank is better than electric windows.........especially when it has to go to the shop and have it's motor/drive belt replaced.

Just because something is new, doesn't make it better. The Yugo was new at one point too....

4. They are hyping it up to be the better 'sliced bread' and it just isn't so. I'm having a [mild] arguement over on the UWL site about it because the creator of the UWL is also the big wig [cough TOM COLE cough] who is PUSHING the 50 and trying to include it into the UWL. Gee...isn't Spyder making .50 pistols? Big suprise huh? It's a marketing ploy because a marker [without abusing it] will last for decades. My 68 Magnum is the prime example. Made in 1986, it runs today like it did the day I bought it. If the pro-50 companies are going to stay alive, they have to do SOMETHING that generates revenue. For them, that's markers. If we are forced to have to buy them because they've hyped everyone into believing this inferior ball is better...they have won....and at OUR cost.

5. I have to counter this with - dun dun dun - the Ion. From the GATE it was marketed as a "cheaper alternative to get [kids] into tourney ball." It lives up to that claim. It competes [bps for bps......weight vs weight.....etc] right from the box.

6. That's absolutely correct.
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