Special Ops Paintball: Marker Mythbusting - Special Ops Paintball

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Marker Mythbusting Clearing up some misconceptions about assorted guns Rate Topic: ****- 1 Votes

#106 User is offline   Sasquatch X7 

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Post icon  Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:33 PM

[/quote]
Anyways, electros, especially high ends, are built much better than any tippmann, and they're just as reliable, or even more reliable.
[/quote]

while i did say that from above i am in no way trashing electros. in many cases there great and hey play with what you love man... have fun thats the key to ACTUALLY winning a game.
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#107 User is offline   ferret15 

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 04:09 PM

Here is another way to out that

Paintball Myths Revealed:
Accuracy, Trajectory, Distance
Mike Whitmer


Throughout the years, I have heard every major paintball misconception played out in every forum possible: the subway, the local tavern, and heck, even the local paintball field. A group of paintball-playing buddies get together and discuss their game, and no matter what, the conversation always turns to how accurate the speakers? marker is. While it is true that, when bench mounted in an area where all variables have been reduced to null, one marker could be more accurate than another, most people take this fact and run with it. I?m sure everyone has heard the famous ?my marker is more accurate than yours because it?s a closed bolt!? argument before. And every Autococker owner out there is sure to have been the subject of a rant by a fellow player regarding how accurate the marker is because of its flat trajectory. Oh, yes, and let?s not leave out the ?your marker has much more distance than mine? ideal, that would be heresy! Rolling of eyes ensues.
I still can?t believe that in this day and age, people still think that one marker is more accurate, has a different trajectory, or shoots farther than another. The purpose of this article is to inform the masses that the latter is most certainly not true, and to instruct all of those who break from the chains of conformity and actually listen on how to get the most out of their paintball marker. Read on and be enlightened!


Accuracy in Paintball

For all intents and purposes, including those of physics and science in general, no marker can be more accurate than another because no bolt configuration can be more accurate than another, in theory. However, in the real world, this idea rarely plays out as it is intended to. Wind positions, temperature, your FPS reading, all of these will change on a second-to-second basis. Unless one could play in a vacuum that were to be kept at a constant temperature, and used equipment that could keep dead-on consistency at all times, there is no way to prove that a closed bolt marker is more accurate than an open bolt, or that it is the same. In fact, any test on the subject is flawed the second it begins, because of the aforementioned variables present (or absent, depending). There are, however, several ways to improve or control the accuracy of your paintball marker. The most important involves the match in barrel and paintball bore sizes. Even a slight disparity in this match can allow for a severe decrease in accuracy. The best way to test for a paint/barrel match is called the ?blow test.? In order to perform this operation, simply insert a paintball into one end of the barrel, and attempt to blow the paintball out of the other end. If it comes out with some slight force, it should be satisfactory. However, if it requires a minimal or profuse amount of force to propel the paintball from the barrel, you have a ball that is either too small or too large, respectively, for your barrel.
Next up is getting the best air system you can possibly find. Look for one with a high flow and recharge rate and a well built regulator. The PSI (pounds per square inch) and CI (cubic inches) of the tank does not affect accuracy. The final method to improving accuracy is to purchase a high-flow regulator, inline, bottomline, or sideline (along the side of the marker; a rare find these days). A high flow will significantly increase accuracy because it will allow more air to flow inside of the marker, increasing consistency, a major factor in accuracy. By following all of these steps, your marker should be as accurate as possible. Keep in mind the effects of barrel length on range and accuracy found later in this manuscript before choosing your new tubular trajectory correction device.


The Trajectory Myth

What is this allegory, you say? Well, it is mostly apparent among Autococker owners who claim that their marker has a ?flatter trajectory, meaning better accuracy at longer distances.? Scientifically this is not the case, as any claim of one marker having a different trajectory than another is physically impossible. No matter what the situation, this assertion is always false, regardless of how much the instigator of this idea tries to explain science away. There really isn?t a great deal else to say about this fallacy. Simply know that any declaration of a marker having a different trajectory than another is invariably fictitious.


Distance Misapprehensions

Regardless of what may be said, there are still some ill-informed, but well-meaning, players out there who still believe and profess that distance varies from marker to marker. Allow me to soundly assure you that this is by no means the case. Closed bolt markers have long been believed to have better accuracy and, of course, distance (it?s a wonder that most people don?t think they allow you to fly as well!), than their counterpart, the open bolt mechanism. Physics state that no bolt operation can make a paintball fly farther than another, unless modified by another operation. The only other operation in the paintball world that could change the flight distance of a ball is the amplification of velocity. This generally is unsafe, and at a certain point, one will encounter severe ball chopping because of the velocity at which the bolt strikes the paintball. Some people think certain markers shoot farther than others because they either held the former marker at a steeper angle, or had a less consistent setup on the second marker resulting in lower accuracy or accuracy spikes.


The Affect of Barrels on Accuracy and Distance

One myth that has stood the test of time is that longer barrels give a marker more distance and more accuracy. This is far from the truth, and the laws of physics state this in numerous places. One object emitted from a source at the same velocity and angle as another object, barring drag in the trajectory and elements such as wind and temperature, will go the same distance and have the same flight path (accuracy). Now, introducing drag into the equation, one can imply that the opposite of the idea abovementioned is true: the longer a barrel is, the less accuracy and the less distance can be expected. Through my own tests and the tests of such paintball greats as Tom Kaye, creator of the Automag, the findings are self-evident: the barrel only uses the first six to eight inches to accelerate, and the next two to four to correct itself before falling victim to drag, which in turn results in deceleration, which produces a larger arc, and finally results in less distance and accuracy at longer ranges. Therefore, the optimum barrel length is at least eight inches and at most fourteen, with the average at eleven inches. Most barrel makers do not produce eleven inch styles of their product, so one must either pick between ten or twelve inch for the most advantageous performance possible.


Blowback and Accuracy

Blowback, defined as the excess gas vented from the marker through various ports (feed tube, barrel, etc.), is another contributing factor towards accuracy; or, should I say, the disparagement of it. Closed bolt markers have inherently less blowback because of their design, which allows less air in the form of blowback gas to escape. Blowback is essentially the leading origin of kick, or the lack thereof. Consequently, closed bolt markers will always have less kick than most open bolt markers. If your marker kicks, it jerks from your grip at least enough to throw off aim slightly. If you have a closed bolt marker that has less kick or none that is noticeable at all, your aim will stay true as long as you can keep your arm steady. This will lead to greater accuracy, allowing you to consistently place shots in and around the area you intend to hit. This does not, however, take the place of the skill of the operator. The shooter must use his own sound grasp of the marker to control the shots.

I trust that this article will assist all that read it. All information in this text has been checked and double-checked for accuracy. Share this information with your fellow paintball players, and let the word get out: the prominent myths of the game of paintball have been disproved many times, and it is time that everyone participating in our great game realizes this.
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#108 User is offline   d4rkmonkey 

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 04:34 PM

View PostSasquatch X7, on Aug 6 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Third, the reason you see high-ends in the shop is because a Tippmann is cheap enough that, when it breaks, you just buy a new one. When you dump $200 on a marker, you maybe tinker with it, but probably get a new one. When you spend $600, you get it fixed. Plus, the majority of semi-serious paintballers don't shoot a Tippmann-most people upgrade.

tippmans don't brake ive had mine for a year and its been run over... buy a golf cart mind you but still.
its never broken on me. i love lol i sleep with it i eat breakfast with it... its gone threw a lot and the most i ever had to do to it is replace 7 o-rings and oil it every time im done playing with it.


Look in the tippmann forums (on this site, and the official forums), check model 98 etc. Many tippmanns break. The only difference, is they're extremely simple to fix, and if you try to fix it yourself you lose like what, $150 when it breaks?

With a high end lots of people rather get it professionally fixed because A) they're more complicated, and ;) if you break it fixing it yourself, you'll have to buy another for anywhere between like $600 and $1500
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#109 User is offline   super_stalker 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 06:41 AM

View Postd4rkmonkey, on Aug 11 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

View PostSasquatch X7, on Aug 6 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Third, the reason you see high-ends in the shop is because a Tippmann is cheap enough that, when it breaks, you just buy a new one. When you dump $200 on a marker, you maybe tinker with it, but probably get a new one. When you spend $600, you get it fixed. Plus, the majority of semi-serious paintballers don't shoot a Tippmann-most people upgrade.

tippmans don't brake ive had mine for a year and its been run over... buy a golf cart mind you but still.
its never broken on me. i love lol i sleep with it i eat breakfast with it... its gone threw a lot and the most i ever had to do to it is replace 7 o-rings and oil it every time im done playing with it.


Look in the tippmann forums (on this site, and the official forums), check model 98 etc. Many tippmanns break. The only difference, is they're extremely simple to fix, and if you try to fix it yourself you lose like what, $150 when it breaks?

With a high end lots of people rather get it professionally fixed because A) they're more complicated, and :laugh: if you break it fixing it yourself, you'll have to buy another for anywhere between like $600 and $1500


If by more complicated you mean they have a solenoid, a regulator(s) and an electronic board then yes. Most of the time I can tech a high end marker faster than a tippmann. While they arn't complicated they do contain plastic parts, they use cheap screws, and the clam shell design they use is very time consuming to break down and reassmble.
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#110 User is offline   Steed 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 08:14 AM

This is just astonishing, a thread set-up for players to come and find the truth about several misconceptions in paintball turns into a mini flam war trying to prove myths as true. This is why SO as a forum gets little respect and never grows, it's the same Tippmann is God & Sniper mentality instilled in all its posters and members unwilling to listen to experience.

First thing first the barrel length fight, both sides are right and wrong at the same time, MP is right to an extent. Length has an incredibly small impact on accuracy, a 12-14" barrel is the same accuracy wise, a 16-20" has a SLIGHTLY (talking < 1") smaller circle, TK did find this but the incredible use of air and length made it completely impracticle. Generaly the quality of the barrel in general generates positive consistancy ie good accuracy. Muader is right though the minute accuracy gain is so small that no player unless shooting at a grid will notice it. So in general 12" and 14" with heavy porting is the absolute best in accuracy/consistancy stand point effeciency stand point, anything over that while gaining worthless amounts of accuracy you loose air effeciency exponentially.
Barrel match is somewhat a misnomer, the actual best consistancy and effeicency is underbored but this DOES NOT take into account for ball breakages, over boring is next followed by the "Blow Test" fit, this was found in a newer test.

Tippmanns are decent guns but are low quality and very overpriced, I know some of you guys love them but that's the bottom line truth. As far as rating them over anything even in their own price bracket the Tippman will always mark lower, always. This is why some of the best Scenario players and teams or any performance driven player, the just don't use them, I know you don't like to hear it but that's becuase you're in denial and a fan boy :P...

Now where is that fire exinguisher?
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#111 User is offline   mass destruction 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:01 AM

now i know im probably going to get flamed for this, but i have had my spyder mr2 for over 17 months and put atleast 9 or 10 cases through it and it hasnt seen a single drop of oil because of the delrin bolt, i never trusted the oil i had to stay in place well enough to use it on the gun. im going to get some sleek and use it on the hammer and the o rings, but im amazed it hasnt affected performace, the cycling doesnt feel sluggish at all and theres still very little kick.
now i like tippmanns because they are all around solid guns, but there quality is bad for the price. i can pick up two stock 98's and see the small differences in how they were manufactured.

This post has been edited by mass destruction: 12 August 2008 - 10:10 AM

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#112 User is offline   super_stalker 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:07 AM

View Postmass destruction, on Aug 12 2008, 10:01 AM, said:

now i know im probably going to get flamed for this, but i have had my spyder mr2 for over 17 months and put atleast 9 or 10 cases through it and it hasnt seen a single drop of oil because of the delrin bolt, i never trusted the oil i had to stay in place well enough to use it on the gun.


Hope you like your o-rings dry and chewed to hell :rolleyes:
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#113 User is offline   mass destruction 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:15 AM

View Postsuper_stalker, on Aug 12 2008, 10:07 AM, said:

View Postmass destruction, on Aug 12 2008, 10:01 AM, said:

now i know im probably going to get flamed for this, but i have had my spyder mr2 for over 17 months and put atleast 9 or 10 cases through it and it hasnt seen a single drop of oil because of the delrin bolt, i never trusted the oil i had to stay in place well enough to use it on the gun.


Hope you like your o-rings dry and chewed to hell :rolleyes:

lol actually i always check them after a day of play and (while they are dry) they're still fine and i have never, ever had it leak.

This post has been edited by mass destruction: 12 August 2008 - 10:21 AM

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#114 User is offline   Steed 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:22 AM

Cause the rings on the hammer aren't ment to retain preasure just prevent it from going out the back when fired, that's why oiling them helps the marker work better.
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#115 User is offline   Bloody Beetroot 

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 05:57 PM

View Postmass destruction, on Aug 12 2008, 11:15 AM, said:

View Postsuper_stalker, on Aug 12 2008, 10:07 AM, said:

View Postmass destruction, on Aug 12 2008, 10:01 AM, said:

now i know im probably going to get flamed for this, but i have had my spyder mr2 for over 17 months and put atleast 9 or 10 cases through it and it hasnt seen a single drop of oil because of the delrin bolt, i never trusted the oil i had to stay in place well enough to use it on the gun.


Hope you like your o-rings dry and chewed to hell :blink:

lol actually i always check them after a day of play and (while they are dry) they're still fine and i have never, ever had it leak.


Yeah man I can tell that you're not lying cause that's exactly the same way my MR2 has been for me too! Never oiled it but it's still working fine. In fact, the only thing that's ever worn out on it is the ball detent and that just happened last week after owning my MR2 for almost 2 years. :dodgy:
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#116 User is offline   ikill4n2 

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 06:13 PM

people say shockers have to be lubed alot but i only lube mine every 15 cases or if i chop(which is almost never)
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#117 User is offline   d4rkmonkey 

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 06:16 PM

View Postsuper_stalker, on Aug 12 2008, 09:41 AM, said:

View Postd4rkmonkey, on Aug 11 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

View PostSasquatch X7, on Aug 6 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Third, the reason you see high-ends in the shop is because a Tippmann is cheap enough that, when it breaks, you just buy a new one. When you dump $200 on a marker, you maybe tinker with it, but probably get a new one. When you spend $600, you get it fixed. Plus, the majority of semi-serious paintballers don't shoot a Tippmann-most people upgrade.

tippmans don't brake ive had mine for a year and its been run over... buy a golf cart mind you but still.
its never broken on me. i love lol i sleep with it i eat breakfast with it... its gone threw a lot and the most i ever had to do to it is replace 7 o-rings and oil it every time im done playing with it.


Look in the tippmann forums (on this site, and the official forums), check model 98 etc. Many tippmanns break. The only difference, is they're extremely simple to fix, and if you try to fix it yourself you lose like what, $150 when it breaks?

With a high end lots of people rather get it professionally fixed because A) they're more complicated, and :D if you break it fixing it yourself, you'll have to buy another for anywhere between like $600 and $1500


If by more complicated you mean they have a solenoid, a regulator(s) and an electronic board then yes. Most of the time I can tech a high end marker faster than a tippmann. While they arn't complicated they do contain plastic parts, they use cheap screws, and the clam shell design they use is very time consuming to break down and reassmble.


Exactly what I mean. Because of the more expensive parts (solenoid, board etc.) less people are willing to risk it. Plus, I'm sure there are many people who don't know how to deal with those sorts of things.
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#118 User is offline   TaCticulMerderer18 

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 06:55 AM

View PostDARK_KIDO, on Mar 28 2008, 01:08 AM, said:

Great Job but you forgot to mention the ever so smexy Flatlined Autococker ;) God that is the most butt ugly marker ever. EVER. EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Sub-Myth: Pump markers are more accurate than non-pump markers

Answer: False, they seem more accurate because your hand is on the pump handle when you shoot, so your marker doesn't wable back and forth. If you shoot with your hand on your regulator or Pump handle you will find improved accuracy.


I dont know why hand position would make much of a difference. if you think about it, the regulator of a cocker pump is in a similar position as most regs on semi's. the instance that semi shooters rely on the fact that they have the firepower to react if they miss the first shot makes them somewhat careless and often grows into the spray and pray technique we see today.


View PostOxyfyde, on Mar 28 2008, 04:15 PM, said:

View PostChaos Fiend, on Mar 28 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

Kido, really the reason it feels more accurate, IMO, is that your using so many less shots, so many of the experienced players (IE me, T0ast, etc.) do with one ball what most do with many. Also many pump players are great players already so they seem more accurate than new players.


Agreed. Pump players also may be more accurate because they are more conscience of, what most people consider to be, thier firepower handycap. At least whenever I'm going for the one shot kill, I take my time with each shot. Controled breathing, increased focus/awareness, and I try to pull the trigger between heartbeats. It works very well. But I still could be more accurate if I didn't know that if I missed, I still had a semi auto marker to back me up in those "hard times".


I dont know if i would go to those extremes for a single shot, but awareness, and not letting yourself enter "tunnel vision" would probably suffice for a "one shot one kill". being a pump player myself, this has become as fluid as breathing


View Postd4rkmonkey, on Sep 2 2008, 09:16 PM, said:

View Postsuper_stalker, on Aug 12 2008, 09:41 AM, said:

View Postd4rkmonkey, on Aug 11 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

View PostSasquatch X7, on Aug 6 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Third, the reason you see high-ends in the shop is because a Tippmann is cheap enough that, when it breaks, you just buy a new one. When you dump $200 on a marker, you maybe tinker with it, but probably get a new one. When you spend $600, you get it fixed. Plus, the majority of semi-serious paintballers don't shoot a Tippmann-most people upgrade.

tippmans don't brake ive had mine for a year and its been run over... buy a golf cart mind you but still.
its never broken on me. i love lol i sleep with it i eat breakfast with it... its gone threw a lot and the most i ever had to do to it is replace 7 o-rings and oil it every time im done playing with it.


Look in the tippmann forums (on this site, and the official forums), check model 98 etc. Many tippmanns break. The only difference, is they're extremely simple to fix, and if you try to fix it yourself you lose like what, $150 when it breaks?

With a high end lots of people rather get it professionally fixed because A) they're more complicated, and B) if you break it fixing it yourself, you'll have to buy another for anywhere between like $600 and $1500


If by more complicated you mean they have a solenoid, a regulator(s) and an electronic board then yes. Most of the time I can tech a high end marker faster than a tippmann. While they arn't complicated they do contain plastic parts, they use cheap screws, and the clam shell design they use is very time consuming to break down and reassmble.


Exactly what I mean. Because of the more expensive parts (solenoid, board etc.) less people are willing to risk it. Plus, I'm sure there are many people who don't know how to deal with those sorts of things.


no i dont believe so... i think you see more high-end tourney grade markers in the shop due to the fact that alot of the players that shelled out that kind of cash for a marker didnt know how to tech it themselves. although you may be somewhat right about not want to fix their own marker (maybe) in fear of damaging something important. but if you think about it, todays tourney markers are getting more operator friendly and are much more simple to break down. you do however have
more expensive parts, that doesnt make it less reliable. if you bought a marker brand new, the company ( if it cares at all) would include a manual and troubleshooting steps. all the have to do is read up a bit and they could do it themselves not problem. but they neglect to do so. they would rather send it to a proshop and let a tech do it for them.

This post has been edited by TaCticulMerderer18: 01 October 2008 - 07:05 AM


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#119 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 07:14 AM

A thread on Closed Bolt "Accuracy".

http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index...howtopic=159553
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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:28 PM

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 06:40 PM, said:

Again, wrong. Both Tippmanns and electros need to be oiled after each day of play. However, you should NEVER have to completely disassemble a high-end-under normal use, you'll never mess it up that bad.
Yes, if you leave an electro and a Tippmann in a box with no oil, the Tippmann will shoot when you gas it up and the electro will probably not. However, anybody who doesn't want to flush money down the toilet can take a minute per day of play to oil their gun.

Again, with both my A-5 and my 'Cocker, I broke them down after each day of play. Breaking down the 'Cocker consisted of taking out the battery to charge it, wiping the paint out and oiling the bolt. The Tippmann needed batteries charged, complete breakdown, oiling a lot more moving parts, cleaning the paint out, and re-assembling the whole thing. The 'Cocker takes 2 minutes, the A-5 was a half-hour ordeal.


I dont think your 100% right on this. I have 2 98's and an a-5 and I have found that both guns can get adequate oil coverage just by squirting oil in the asa. I used the smarts parts oil, the blue stuff and it made it pretty aparent when i opened my gun up that oiling that way covered everything I was going to oil anyway. it even oils the inside of air lines and hardware and prevents o-ring deformation. when I had my ANS that was something i would make sure to completely oil but for tippmanns I have never had any issues with oiling a gun that way.
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