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Obama Gonna Win? Retrothread #14 Rate Topic: -----

#31 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:44 PM

The Republicans of today are NOT the same as Republicans of 20 years ago....
...and they haven't changed for the better.
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#32 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:53 PM

View PostI.K.E., on 31 August 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

I agree that the Democrats don't actually care about us. As far as Republicans "actively" hurting us, you bet they do. Every time they move to enrich themselves, they have to take something away from us. So the Democrats keep poor people poor? The Republicans are doing everything they can to shrink the middle class.


You're assuming that there is always a set, fixed, finite amount of resources. That isn't the case - the total amount of wealth in our country can change from year to year, or even day to day. If some rich guy gets richer, it doesn't detract from my ability to make a living.

I'm not saying they cannot impact us at all; but the idea that every penny they keep is a penny one of us loses is
wrong.

I do concede the point that the Republicans are working overtime to shrink the middle class. I add the addendum that the Democrats are working just as hard or harder to accomplish the same ends. Both of the parties want the "haves" and the "have nots" so they can control their serfs. The Republicans hurt us by getting into all kinds of overseas adventures, and the Democrats stifle our small businesses with their massive red tape and legislation.

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No one gives a crap about us. They just want our votes. They want our money. So people get ticked off and vote for change. They vote in the democrats, and nothing much happens. Then they vote in republicans. Nothing much happens. They vote in the TeaParty. Nothing at all happens.


Pretty much.

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MaDuce is right about the 3rd party stuff. That would be a refreshing change. The only thing he's wrong about is the fact that no matter what organization is doing whatever to prevent it, if people ACTUALLY wanted a 3rd party, there would be one.


They don't have to actually want one, they have to want one bad enough. People do want another option, they just don't see a way to make it happen and fall into the "it's too hard and will never happen" dilemma. I can even be guilty of it some -- I see one party as being "Bad Lite" and the other as "Bad Worse". I usually vote for Bad Lite because I know if I vote third party, I'm only taking away votes from Bad Lite and increasing Bad Worse's chances of success. I suspect most voters do the same thing (well, then there's the true believers that are stupid enough to buy into all the propaganda crap being spewed on the campaign trail, but that's another story)

Now, if we get a really viable candidate, and enough people to realize that he/she IS a viable candidate, then maybe we can break that system.
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#33 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:30 PM

I.K.E. said:

MaDuce is right about the 3rd party stuff. That would be a refreshing change. The only thing he's wrong about is the fact that no matter what organization is doing whatever to prevent it, if people ACTUALLY wanted a 3rd party, there would be one.[/quote


We've had candidates that people liked, but as we've seen with Ron Paul (though to a lesser extent Mike Gravel, Kucinich and Nader,) the media ignores them--though they might take a moment to mock and dismiss them. They proclaim they're they're unelectable. The media perpetuates the Us vs. Them mentality in Americans. Coke vs. Pepsi. Bud Light vs. Miller Lite. We're conditioned to think in terms of vague qualifiers. If you drink beer, you don't speak in terms of "drinkability," "cold-filtered," or what kind of bottle it pours out of. These are BS qualifiers, like lapel pins, faith, family values and "tough on crime".

Our national discourse if flooded with red herrings, so how do you really think you're going to have a rational discussion?

http://www.theatlant...are-you/243987/

You might not like Ron Paul, you might think that his ideology if fulfilled would be disastrous (like I do) but do you think any of the other candidates will actually try to govern?

I really find it difficult to buy the "it's the stupid voters" argument. We haven't really been given a choice in years. Again, look at the booby traps the parties have set for 3rd party candidates in terms of ballot access and debate participation throughout the nation at every governmental level.

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=14241924

Get the money out of politics, there's a good place to start. I'm not sure if public funding is the answer. Perhaps you could make it illegal for public officials to accept gifts, money, vacations and jobs from anyone. Then Archer-Daniels-Midland could give their 1st Amendment rights as the SCOTUS currently interprets them.

This post has been edited by MaDuce: 31 August 2011 - 07:36 PM

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#34 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:40 PM

This turned up in my local (typically left-leaning) paper's editorial section. Thought it applied to 3rd party and people who really try to bring meaningful changes to politics.

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#35 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:51 PM

View PostMaDuce, on 31 August 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:


Get the money out of politics, there's a good place to start. I'm not sure if public funding is the answer. Perhaps you could make it illegal for public officials to accept gifts, money, vacations and jobs from anyone. Then Archer-Daniels-Midland could give their 1st Amendment rights as the SCOTUS currently interprets them.



I agree with getting money out of politics. Take away the paycheck and free medical insurance too. You wanna serve the people? Then serve. Not a job. Not a career. Not a free ride. Service.
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#36 User is offline   Eagle Eye 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:18 PM

Congress is supposed to be a SERVICE to the American People, NOT a PROFESSION.
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#37 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:28 PM

http://www.businessi...ll-baker-2011-5

This revolving door from government to business has got to stop. These BUTT TOQUEs see public service as a chance to get their foot in the door for high-paying corporate jobs. You think their decisions while in office will be based upon what's best for the long-term vitality of the nation or a cushy job six months later?
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#38 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 05:23 PM

Actually, I'm wrong. It isn't a Duopoly. It's only Zuul.

Reposted from another forum I frequent:

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In 2012 we will all have the opportunity to vote for the guy who enslaved us all to private insurance:
http://www.politifac...-health-reform/

Who single-handedly sent US troops to fight in foreign battles without authorization:
http://www.cbsnews.c...n20071286.shtml

Who has no interest in the environment, because a clean environment is obviously anti-business:
http://money.cnn.com...my/regulations/

Who packs his cabinets with moneyed interests and ex-bankers like JP Morgan Chase Executives like Jamie Dimon, Bill Daley, and Lloyd Blankfein from Goldman Sachs:
http://www.politico....0211/49108.html

Who is content to cut Medicare in order to preserve tax breaks for the richest Americans:
http://www.speaker.g...cumentID=254628

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OR . . .

. . . you could vote for whomever the Republicans decide to run. Either way, American politics is much like that cheesy late-90's TV series The Highlander.

"There can be only one."

If you're not in the top 5% of earners, if you oppose military conquest as the foundation for a national economy, if you prefer to live in a clean environment, or believe that you shouldn't be mandated by government to buy private services then you aren't the one. There will be zero candidates representing you in the 2012 elections. There will only by a handful of corporate puppets with slightly varying flavors to choose from.
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Welcome to one party rule, commrade. ;)

This post has been edited by MaDuce: 02 September 2011 - 05:25 PM

"Its very hard to grasp the idea at first but once you accept it, it makes A LOT of sense!" -- Minnesota Sn1p3r on conspiracy theories
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"Good man, Duce, good man." -- Tryon
"Also accepting female snipers." -- Lt.Col.Vortex
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#39 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:30 AM

You're pretty much hooped either way. Lift your head up high and blow your brains out.

Have fun!
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#40 User is offline   Pirate 

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 02:56 AM

Even if he doesn't get the GOP nomination, I'll write him in.
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#41 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 07:52 AM

Exactly. I'll throw Ron Paul a vote too. If all the people who said they'd vote for him actually ever would, the guy could probably get elected.
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#42 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 07:58 AM

Count me in on the Ron Paul votes.

Although I'm also going to do what I can to get him the GOP nomination. Of course I can't do it myself, but if I can help swing Minnesota's republican party vote by getting into the system, that just helps. Hopefully others are going to do the same in their states and we can get him nominated.

If not? Well I'll probably still send him my vote.
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#43 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:26 PM

So here we are, 10 months down the road, and heading into voting season. Obama and Romney are fighting it out. Romney is totally right about Obama, and Obama is totally right about Romney.

Who has the better argument?
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#44 User is offline   stinkfingr 

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:55 PM

i terribly disappointed in President Obama, and terribly disappointed in the GOP's choice of a candidate ... i should probably just write my own name in.
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#45 User is offline   Mobles 

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

I'll write you in too Klaa
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