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The Big Rip no not a fart Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 05:13 PM

My link
This is a very interesting scientific article I stumbled upon. I don't know if anybody remembers my 5th dimension theory, which most people thought was crazy, but this article supports it.
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#2 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:59 AM

2 things

1) if string theory is proven in switzerland ( hopefully when they ramp up the particle generators to 100% by 2012-2014) then we effectively have 11 or more dimensions.

2) I thought the most recent agreement was that right now the universe is expanding, but its total expansion is slowing down as gravity is slowly pulling things back together to the center. but now there going back to infinate expansion? eh they need to make up their minds lol.


and on further note,

All we need is a little anti-hydrogen and some regular hydrogen and we can power the world!

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 19 November 2010 - 11:02 AM

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#3 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:50 PM

Quantum mechanics is some interesting stuff. The extra spacial dimensions that we do not observe could be the secret to inter-galactic travel. Not by surpassing the speed of light just by taking advantage of the shorter distances that would be present in these dimensions.
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#4 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:00 AM

I cant believe people take stuff like this more seriously than a religion. How much solid proof is there for this theory? Very little, if anything more than a vaguely educated guess and a few math problems on a whiteboard.Yet somehow this comes off as more believable than a supernatural being creating a perfectly tuned universe and sparking life into it.
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#5 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:50 AM

Oh please, don't turn this into a science/religion debate.
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#6 User is offline   Mehphisto 

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 09:43 PM

View PostBenaiah, on 20 November 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

I cant believe people take stuff like this more seriously than a religion. How much solid proof is there for this theory? Very little, if anything more than a vaguely educated guess and a few math problems on a whiteboard.Yet somehow this comes off as more believable than a supernatural being creating a perfectly tuned universe and sparking life into it.

:rolleyes:

There's a reason for that, but if you are seriously wanting to debate this go make a new thread.
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#7 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 06:45 PM

Yea i thought about the debate that could come of this after i posted it. I would love to have a nice talk about different views on the subject but this is a paintball forum so we'll keep it at that.
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#8 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:14 PM

View PostBenaiah, on 20 November 2010 - 10:00 AM, said:

I cant believe people take stuff like this more seriously than a religion. How much solid proof is there for this theory? Very little, if anything more than a vaguely educated guess and a few math problems on a whiteboard.Yet somehow this comes off as more believable than a supernatural being creating a perfectly tuned universe and sparking life into it.


Actually......

The theory is mainly based on Einstein's theory of Spacetime ( which has been proven... multiple times over. again, and again.)
That although something may appear flat ( such as the known universe )It can actually curve and manipulate the matter within it -> spacetime

So if the universe is closing, think of a REALLY long infinitly expanding horizon, now if the ends are slightly bent, they will eventually come full circle and touch each other, which was the original theory of this rip, which was more of a Big crash.
But now they are saying its possible ( through small and precise calculations. ) that the ends are open, ( so while one curve down the other curves up, never to meet.) and The ginormus Black hole at the center of our universe ( once again proven through calculations and actual observation)will put enough pressure on spacetime that it could tear, or just make a big mess of the center of our universe.



These things are not willy nilly sentences,
We spend 4 decades creating a spinning gyroscope up in space to determine how much of a effect the earth's wobble has on our axis. Which by the way is 0.000062 degree's west. every year.

2nd - Most people who work within finding out these things ( newton, Galileo, Einstein, hawkings and hundreds of others will all tell you that They know nothing. They are just trying to figure it out. Were not a bunch of pencil pushing nerd's forcing science down your throat.

and a "supernatural being creating a perfectly tuned universe and sparking life into it" is fairly un-believable anyways

religion is Faith,
Science is Theory.

And I know nothing.

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 22 November 2010 - 01:17 PM

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#9 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 04:05 PM

10thdim
This is a fascinating Youtube channel if you are interested in learning more about quantum physics and such.
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#10 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 04:43 PM

For one, EInstein's Theory of "space-time" has not been proven, per se, but it has been corroborated with other evidence. Fo all we know it could be totally off the mark, and just coincidentally matching with some collected data, or it could even be a self-proving hypothesis, where data is made to fit the theory or the theory altered to absorb the data. So far, nothing conclusive has been found that absolutely proves Einsteins theory. Im not saying i dont believe it, I think it is the most plausible explanation to date. But when you build a theory off of an instable platform, it makes me begin to doubt the theory in question. With that said, I'm not saying what you posted is wrong. I'm no astrophysicist, and they obviously are.

As for the LHC proving string theory, there again you have the problem of a self-proving hypothesis. If you go in to an experiment of that magnitude, with the possibilities of results wide open, there will always be a way to fit the data into any theory you have. it will not prove anything conclusively by itself. It will need multiple retests with different variables all accounted for to truly vet out all the relevant data we can from the exobytes it will create.

And you say that Intelligent Design is fairly unbelievable? Most scientists and statisticians would tell you that any probability greater than 1/10^50 can reasonably be counted as impossible. The Cosmological constant is one example of a finely tuned constant. if it varied by any more than 1/10^120 (1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000) the universe could not exist. More minuscule changes in the weak and strong nuclear forces would have a multitude of life-barring implications like an absence of hydrogen, an absence of everything but hydrogen, and an imbalance in heavy elements that would inhibit life. The list can go on, and when you delve into the biological world of perfect proteins, organs, and cell structures, the odds of random formation become astronomical. Some of the chances can be related to randomly throwing a dart from the ISS and hitting a bulls-eye, or shooting randomly across the distance of the known galaxy and hitting a two inch target. Taken individually, each case of fine tuning can make the perfect conditions of life seem highly improbable. But when combined, they become literally impossible.

When some scientists talk about the absurdity of faith in any religion, it makes me wonder how they can be so oblivious to their blind faith in science.

With all that said, i am still a strong believer in scientific research and the postulation of theories, and i love when someone shakes the science world with a new take on the universe. But no matter how they spin it, their theories still seem absurdly improbably without the help of an intelligent being that plays a heavy part in forming the structure of our world.

A great man once said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
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#11 User is offline   HOUND1 

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 05:31 PM

while this is actually based in science, it still reminds me of this:
http://www.livescien...earth_mp-1.html
:laugh:
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#12 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 03:05 PM

View PostBenaiah, on 22 November 2010 - 04:43 PM, said:

For one, EInstein's Theory of "space-time" has not been proven, per se, but it has been corroborated with other evidence. Fo all we know it could be totally off the mark, and just coincidentally matching with some collected data, or it could even be a self-proving hypothesis, where data is made to fit the theory or the theory altered to absorb the data. So far, nothing conclusive has been found that absolutely proves Einsteins theory. Im not saying i dont believe it, I think it is the most plausible explanation to date. But when you build a theory off of an instable platform, it makes me begin to doubt the theory in question. With that said, I'm not saying what you posted is wrong. I'm no astrophysicist, and they obviously are.

A great man once said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."


his theory proved why light deflection occurs during a solar eclipse, and using his equations you can actually calculate by how much also.
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Cool thing to note, using a perfectly straight line when sending communications from satellites doesn't work in real life, when a satellite is in orbit and sending a message back to us it always takes longer then just the D divided by V of the wave. But when you include the idea of spacetime and relativity the calculations are correct. which once again is another note for Einstein.

and another thing that his relativity has for him is

Gravitational Red shifts ( or blue shifts)
http://en.wikipedia....tional_redshift

All are explained by relativity, and which is of course Spacetime.

another thing going for him is frame draggin,
Conclusion at page 8, the intresting stuff on page 5 and 6
http://www.math.toro...Liokumovich.pdf

and two

Science and religion should be paired together, love both of them with all my heart.
I think we are on the same page here.. actually...

:)

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 24 November 2010 - 03:10 PM

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#13 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 03:46 PM

well that solves that lol.

But while Einstein's theory does hold true in those instances, there have been other instances that it has failed. I cant give you specifics, but i know its there. This is a little simplified, but for all the possible applications of einstein's, or any theory for that matter, could be like saying that 2+2 ans 2x2 mean the same thing becasue they both equal 4, you know what i mean? because we havent fully tested every other situation, we make that assumption based on the data we have.
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#14 User is offline   Der Kartozeichner 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:45 PM

M-Theory is limited to 10 dimensions, I think String Theory is too, Eskimo.

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#15 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 04:36 PM

Do you think that gravitational red shifts could be caused by wave particle duality? So therefore the particle aspect would have mass and gravity would then slow down the photons. Then causing the wavelength to stretch out.

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