Special Ops Paintball: The SPPL from a veteran competitor. - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (6 Pages)
  • +
  • « First
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

The SPPL from a veteran competitor. Warning...very long post. Rate Topic: *---- 1 Votes

#76 User is offline   Schloob 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 185
  • Joined: 04-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:snakedoctor

Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:08 AM

Krazy, Greg Muscett and Myself completed an interview wtih Blast Radius that should be posted soon. If any of you would like to know more about this topic you will be able to hear the interview in full shortly. Links will be posted here and elsewhere.

The reason for the interview is for people to hear what is going on directly from the horse mouth instead of going back and forth with hear say on rumors. Listen to the interview, you will find most of you questions answered. If you have something specific after you have listened to in the interview then post it or send me an email.
<!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->JAYSON NIELSON - RECON MAGAZINE, SPPL COORDINATOR, SCHLOOB - SPECIAL OPS PAINTBALL<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<img src="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/images/factoryemployee_badge.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><a href="http://www.specialopspaintball.com/brigade/member_view.asp?id=5709" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.specialopspaintball.com/brigade/images/member_banner_01.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
0

#77 User is offline   VORTEX 

  • "Student of Humanity"
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 104
  • Joined: 07-May 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boulder, CO
  • Brigade Name:vortex

Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:34 PM

Click the link below to listen to the thorough discussion of the topics raised in this thread. Blast Radius Woodsball Podcast served as common ground for Jayson, Krazy8 and Greg to discuss the concerns raised here.

BRWP 090 "Check the Rule Book"

Direct Downlink HERE

(60 minutes, mp3)
0

#78 User is offline   Lament 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: 23-June 06
  • Brigade Name:Lament

Posted 05 August 2008 - 12:30 PM

One thing that I have not specifically addressed, but mentioned before, is equipment. It's great that the SPPL supplies refs with cool jerseys to wear at the events. I know that years past, at the end of the year, the refs at Finals got to take them home with them, and if anyone out there reads this and has one, shoot me a PM. But, it's the radios. Or the batteries. I am not sure which. In California, I made a comment, a few people heard it, and I am not going to repeat it here or in a PM (So don't ask), but I stick to my comment and make no apologies for having made it. And it all came from at least one radio (More if I understand correctly) that had died, during a game. Communication was botched, not with the players on the teams, but with the staff, the people that had come in to TAAG to ref (And they did a very good job) and the head ref (Jayson himself in case anyone thinks that all he does is sit up the main tent during a SPPL event). This same mistake was repeated in Oregon, most notably on the lower field. I am not sure if the equipment had not been charged up properly, or there was some other error. But that is one thing that will most certainly help Jayson, the head refs on the fields, as well as all of the other refs.

Now mentioning something from the podcast is the prizes at the events. I can't argue with anyone about this, but I do think that some people/teams do look forward to winning the prizes as well. Playing tournament paintball, no matter what the level and format, isn't cheap. There are a few sponsored teams out there, so for them, the cost is less, or even minimal. I would not know, as every single one of the members of ForestFire pays out of their own pocket for the travel, the lodging, the paint, the entry, everything. We are not in this league to win to make a million dollars, most assuredly not. But the prizes do help offset the cost for us to play in the league. So they do have an impact on the teams, even if not directly. But that is not the only reason that we play. As Krazy stated, the statue/plaque is really cool. Actually, I would call it the best award that anyone in any tournament, and do include the PSP/NXL and NPPL to this, that you can receive for doing as well as your team does.

But, and I hope that I am making sense here, this is a tournament. I have said this before elsewhere, but I think that the Scenario of the SPPL is honestly misleading. I am not sure if there is any option, or plans to change the name of the league. But the SPPL, in it's essence, as well as it's doing, is a tournament. A competition between groups of people who think that they can do better than the other guys. Even if it is not the most important reason for being there, it's why the league exists. Personal opinion, I think that a problem that has existed has kind of been swept under the table as much as possible for a while now, and as the beginning of the thread specifically shows, it has been a detriment that it has been swept under the table as long as it has. I honestly don't want to lose Krazy as a competitor, but it seems that it has happened that way. I know that I will have other opportunities to play paintball with, and against, Krazy, but I have seen the same issues happen in Oklahoma as well as California and Oregon, so I know that it isn't a regional affair.

Unless the SPPL gets a serious shot in the pocketbook, which I do not see happening any time soon, or it raises the cost of entry, all to cover getting a much more dedicated and serious reffing staff, we will continue to run into this problem again and again. I have posted up before an alternative, but no one has either contacted, refuted, denounced, or accepted the idea. It really is simple, and I am sure with some tweaking, it can be financially acceptable for all parties.


Shooting like there is no tomorrow. For all we know, there is no tomorrow.

Team ForestFire!!!

Team Forest Demons!!!
0

#79 User is offline   ronin58 

  • RONIN58
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 246
  • Joined: 27-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spokane WA
  • Brigade Name:RONIN58

Posted 05 August 2008 - 01:17 PM

I have to agree here with Lament on the radio issue for sure in Oregon, the bottom field had some major issues with the radios. they also seemed to have problems running there chronos at one time, iIbelieve we had brought are own chrono down and had used are chrono to make sure we were ready, because the one ref had issues with his.

0

#80 User is offline   Lancer X 

  • Dagger with a Space Gun
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 01-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bethlehem, PA
  • Brigade Name:Lancer X

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:44 AM

Wayne, if you happen to be reading here, there's something borked with the direct download link and the iTunes feed. (Not complaining, just informing - really enjoy the show.)

View PostVORTEX, on Aug 5 2008, 01:34 AM, said:

Click the link below to listen to the thorough discussion of the topics raised in this thread. Blast Radius Woodsball Podcast served as common ground for Jayson, Krazy8 and Greg to discuss the concerns raised here.

BRWP 090 "Check the Rule Book"

Direct Downlink HERE

(60 minutes, mp3)

With great firepower comes great responsibility
0

#81 User is offline   Schloob 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 185
  • Joined: 04-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Brigade Name:snakedoctor

Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:11 AM

I purchased 12 new raidos at the begin of the year to add to the raidos we already have. They are Marine band radios and work well. I spent over $3000 dollars on the 12 radios and headsets. If you didn't notice, last year players were able to gain a huge advantage from the refs by over hearing the ref calls. I know every team out there gained a lot of intel from those radios. Thus, I purchased new ones with head sets at a pretty step price. They work great.

Lament, I am not sure about the radio problem you are referring to in California. We were using the new radios and I don't recall any specific problmes. In Oregon however, we were short some radios and had to use 2 ways to fill in. 2 ways are problematic at anyone who has used them can attesst. Ezra used the new raidos at the New York qualifier and I think he will tell you they worked great. Much much better than 2 raidos.

The one thing each of you needs to rememeber is that we are using electronic equipment and at times it will fail. How many times have you guys had markers go down on the field? I don't think I can count that high. The point is any sport wether NBA, NFL or any other for that matter they have had electronic dificulties but they work through them and that is all we can do.

Lament as for your comment about the name of the league being incorrect or misleading is somewhat confusing. First of all, I have stated this before on many other forums and I will state it again here. Sceanrio in SPPL doesn't mean that this is a scenario league. Sure we have tried to incorportate some scenarioistic feel to the game but the word scenario is referring to the type of players we are looking for.

We know there are a lot fo scenario players who attend big games and other events as teams. Those individuals have decided that Paintball, mainly sceanrio is their game and they are commented to playing any chance they get. Much like a golfer who spents all his money to play golf; sometimes at some of the best golf courses in the country. Scenario players are doing the same thing.

So the word Scenario in SPPL is reffing to those individuals and teams that have decided paintball is their game, we want you to come give the SPPL a try in a competitve format. Try your skills against other Scenario teams and see how you match. Every team out there right now is already trying to do this when they attend a big game. They want to be the MVT on the field and they strive for that. The SPPL is nothing different except if gives thoes teams a chance to match up against other teams directly.

I hope this makes sense but if it doesn't I don't see why the name is a problem anyways. Are teams not playing becuase of the name?

Lament, I am sorry if you made suggestions and no one has contacted you. I will send you a pm and please feel free to tell me you ideas. I have talked to hundreds of players and gotten their ideas before. As I mentioned in the pod cast, not of the rule changes or overall changes this year came from me, expect the need for divisions, they came from players. I can tell you every player or players name and their team name along with the situation in questions that resulted in a rule change. If any of you would like that information please send me a pm and I will send you that information so you can contact those individuals yourself to confirm this. Also, feel free to ask them how receptive I was to their ideas and suggestions. I would almost guarentee they will tell you it was a positive eperience and I never once look down on them or told them it was a dumb idea.

That doesn't mean we always agreed and they will tell you this too. But in the instance where we didn't agree we talked about the differents adn I explained why a particluar idea might not work based on my experiecne.

There is one last thing I would like to add to this post and that is this. I know each and everyone of you that takes the time to hop on the forums and state your opinions must care about the league. Otherwise, I am sure you would all find something more valuable to do with your time. That being said I feel like I need to say something hear and I don't want it to come across the wrong way because I only mean it in the best possible light. I have sat here for 30 minutes trying to decided the best way to expalin my thoughts without them coming off the wrong way. I hope they will and I apologized in advance if they offend any of you. But here it goes.

80% of the comments that are made on these forums are 100% accurate and attention is absolutely needed in those areas. BUT, and this is the big one where I will offend most of you, the other 20% seem to be nothing more than nit picking and fault finding for no other reason than to created a dicussion. Rigth now we are talking about the refs and how bad they suck. Overall the reffing has been pretty good at most events. Oregon just happened to shine a big spotlight on a lot of areas within reffing that need to be addressed. We are working on those, if you haven't listened to the pod cast please do you will hear about some of the changes we have been working on for months.

I know the reffing will never be perfect becasue refs are human and ref calls are subjective. Will will never all agree on every call that is made. That is just a fact. But for some reason, paintballers seem to have this expectation that the reffing is only good if it doesn't negatively affect them. ( Don't send me hate mail, I am not dismissing all the ligtimate calls and issue that have been discussed here) I am just saying a a rule of thumbs at every event I have gone to and I have be to almost every SPPL event either as a player or stafff member in some form. Players complain about reffing and they always will. Once we get a better handle on the reffing then something else will come up and people will complain about that too. I really do apprecaite the comments and I can only hope that one day the SPPL and I will meet everyone of your expectations. I probably won't but I will try or burn out and go back to work at Mcdonalds.
<!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->JAYSON NIELSON - RECON MAGAZINE, SPPL COORDINATOR, SCHLOOB - SPECIAL OPS PAINTBALL<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<img src="http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/images/factoryemployee_badge.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><a href="http://www.specialopspaintball.com/brigade/member_view.asp?id=5709" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.specialopspaintball.com/brigade/images/member_banner_01.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
0

#82 User is offline   Lament 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: 23-June 06
  • Brigade Name:Lament

Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:17 AM

View PostSchloob, on Aug 6 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

I purchased 12 new raidos at the begin of the year to add to the raidos we already have. They are Marine band radios and work well. I spent over $3000 dollars on the 12 radios and headsets. If you didn't notice, last year players were able to gain a huge advantage from the refs by over hearing the ref calls. I know every team out there gained a lot of intel from those radios. Thus, I purchased new ones with head sets at a pretty step price. They work great.

Lament, I am not sure about the radio problem you are referring to in California. We were using the new radios and I don't recall any specific problmes. In Oregon however, we were short some radios and had to use 2 ways to fill in. 2 ways are problematic at anyone who has used them can attesst. Ezra used the new raidos at the New York qualifier and I think he will tell you they worked great. Much much better than 2 raidos.

I only want to comment on the radios here, as I know that you have alot of work. Specifically, when it comes to California, I know that not everyone that was reffing was wearing the headsets. Most likely, all of the refs on the field, but the dead box refs were not. During the game between Forest Demons and ForestFire, there was more than one instance of the dead box refs not having heard you, as head ref and time keeper, make the call for times and how long until something was coming up, such as the start of the game, or reinsertions.

Now I was present when a dead box ref specifically got on his radio and called you to find how much longer it would be until a reinsertion, and there was no answer. He got on it again, and informed the two dead players in the dead box, myself being one of them, to get ready and on the line. Literally, as one player was walking alongside the dead box to the front to collect his marker, and I was putting on my mask to get on the line, you called the reinsertion. A third player, who was basically in the area of the start line, but had not come off the field (His hits were recorded while this was all going on), turned around to get back into play, and you, since you happened to be in that area, called him to continue to the dead box, as well as inform the other two players that they would have to remain in the box until the next reinsertion. Now I am saying that it cost us anything. Honestly, if you had allowed us on, I would hazard a guess that we would have been shot out within about five minutes. Just the way things happened. But that was one issue with the radios either having a dead battery or something along those lines.

As to Oregon, it would not surprise me in the least to learn that everyone on the lower field was using one of the two ways, and that none of the nicer Marine radios with a headset was used on that field. I can attest that again, and maybe this is the way it was meant to be, and there is a logic in this choice, that the dead box refs did not have headsets on their radios.

Yes, Oregon seems to constantly have a glaring spotlight shined on it every year. The reffing in California and Oregon was great reffing. I can say that no one, since we are all human, is going to be perfect, either myself as a player, or as a referee. We can only try, and I can say that in Utah and California, the refs did try, and were great. I can say that some of the refs in Oregon were good, but at the same time, I can only really remember good reffing coming during our semi and finals games, when I know that a number of other players on teams that were not playing, were either drafted or volunteered to help.

I know that reffing is a tough subject, and I know that it will always get criticized. All it takes is to take a look right after any NPPL or PSP/NXL event to see at least a few people that post up in other forums about how the reffing was horrible on such and such a field, or how one team got messed over by refs on such and such field. I like to think that overall, Jayson and the field owners have done a good job with the reffing, although there are always exceptions to the rule.


Shooting like there is no tomorrow. For all we know, there is no tomorrow.

Team ForestFire!!!

Team Forest Demons!!!
0

#83 User is offline   Warchild71 

  • I Recruit Killers
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 127
  • Joined: 25-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland Area
  • Brigade Name:Warchild71

Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:31 AM

I haven't listened to the podcast yet so my comments may be moot.

I can understand some of the concerns but for every complaint there are usually 100 good experiences you don't hear about. My teams experience with SPPL so far has been very good. The reffing at Hell's Survivors at the MI Qualifier was nothing short of excellent. At IL the ref's could have done a better job as the host field didn't almost nothing to prepare for the event. At some point Jayson was out there himself doing what he could to make sure the reffing was up to stuff. This was lonog before this post came up so I don't question his sincerity in trying to better the situation. Overall the refs did the best they could. For the final Adrenaline stepped up to ref which was very nice. The IL event turned out to be a blast because all the teams that played it played honorably and the games were competitive. Like my co-hort Spartan said earlier, its an issue of the players. Reffing wouldn't be a problem if players were honest.

Reffing is probably the biggest complaint in paintball. If you look at the NPPL or PSP, they have paid ref staffs and complaints about them are near constant. At almost every scenario I've been to, I've heard complaints of bad reffing. We all suffered from bad calls. I'm not saying we suck it up but we as a community and especially those of us in the league should work together to improve it.
0

#84 User is offline   CSPPL Rep 

  • Forum Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 29-October 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:45 PM

At one point I played on a team that reconised the importance of Time keeping.
Players should assume that only they will know when a reinsert is coming. Big advatage to a well organized team.

We have found it to be part of the game. we don't like it but it happensd a couple times each tourney.
We tell the dead box reff when 3 minutes is then 1 minute........... then 10 , 9 , 8.

The new dead box training vidio will really help with this problem.....
0

#85 User is offline   Lament 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: 23-June 06
  • Brigade Name:Lament

Posted 06 August 2008 - 09:21 PM

ForestFire is fairly on top of that as well. Pretty much all of us keep timers on us and know the times. That is why the ref was checking to see how much longer it would be until the next insert. Per rule 10.8, it is the ref responsibility to alert and escort players at the two minute mark to the "start zone". So us telling the ref that it was two minutes to the next insert could have been misconstrued poorly. Keep in mind, we are not there to tell anyone their job, to do so is just a big no no. The ref, as I stated, checked on his radio, because he agreed that it was getting close to that time. We were not going to leave the dead box without permission, and thereby gain any other penalties for the team either. Upon getting no response, it was then that the dead box ref informed the two of us players to get ready. He took the initiative, knowing that things were getting to that time, to have us get ready. There seemed to be no protocol in place, but there seemingly is now, I think, for if the radio does happen to have issues and/or a dead battery.

But understand, with the example of bringing out extra markers, hoppers, batteries, tools to take care of the marker going down issue, where was the item, or items, needed to take care of the radio problem? Again, this only refers to Cali, not Oregon. In Oregon, I have no idea what was going on with the radios. It seemed that Sandman, who was head ref, knowing that the radios could go bad, would bellow out a call, like time remaining for an insertion, and he would get confirmation, both on the radio, as well as verbally from other refs calling out the time until reinsertion without using a radio. Maybe this was that protocol for the lack of radios. Maybe this was a just in case. Unless Sandman himself comes in here and says why his field did this, we will most likely not know.


Shooting like there is no tomorrow. For all we know, there is no tomorrow.

Team ForestFire!!!

Team Forest Demons!!!
0

#86 User is offline   Acara 

  • Elite Broadsword
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 686
  • Joined: 10-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wesley Chapel, FL
  • Brigade Name:Acara

Posted 07 August 2008 - 07:42 AM

Quote

At one point I played on a team that reconised the importance of Time keeping.
Players should assume that only they will know when a reinsert is coming. Big advatage to a well organized team.


Had to smile at that one. Thought we were the only team that had players specifically designated to call out time in 2 minute intervals over the radios. Makes me feel better that we aren''t the most OCD team on the SPPL circuit :blink:

Thats also why you'll see the little green tthings (cheap stopwatches) hanging around our necks at the SPPL events. In my experience, the only diffence between a good move & a bad move in SPPL is when you execute it.


Posted Image



As another suggestion .... a large LCD coundown clock/timer is $11.00 at Walmart if you catch them on sale & the zip-tie to put it up in the deadbox is about .02


Keeps the deadbox refs attentive :happy:

This post has been edited by Acara: 07 August 2008 - 07:45 AM

0

#87 User is offline   Krazy8 

  • User Defined
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Retired/Inactive Moderator
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 30-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rathdrum , ID
  • Brigade Name:Krazy8

Posted 07 August 2008 - 01:34 PM

That is around your neck Acara!? Um...you have a really long neck!
0

#88 User is offline   Lomarandil 

  • SPPL Junkie -- BlackLight Company
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,181
  • Joined: 18-August 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pueblo / Golden, CO
  • Brigade Name:Lomarandil

Posted 07 August 2008 - 01:42 PM

Oh! Now I see it

Yeah.. I was kind of looking a bit farther up.. like on your chest, perhaps..

Crazy floridians
Lo

0

#89 User is offline   Jester13 

  • Forum Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 20-June 06
  • Location:Marianna, FL
  • Brigade Name:jester1349

Post icon  Posted 07 August 2008 - 07:55 PM

View PostLomarandil, on Aug 7 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

Oh! Now I see it

Yeah.. I was kind of looking a bit farther up.. like on your chest, perhaps..

Crazy floridians
Lo



We Floridians are the normal ones Lo!!
Phillip "Jester" Bunting
US SOCOM SE Commander
US SOCOM Alpha Member
Third Class Ninja Warrior
Chicken Nugget Eating Champion
0

Share this topic:


  • (6 Pages)
  • +
  • « First
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users