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"Snipers" read it if u have an opion on snipers Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#46 User is offline   CamoDeafie 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:56 PM

well. even the SWAT employs snipers on rooftops, hidden, et cetera. ambush gunner works for me. ;)
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#47 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:21 PM

View PostCamoDeafie, on Feb 19 2007, 09:56 PM, said:

well. even the SWAT employs snipers on rooftops, hidden, et cetera. ambush gunner works for me. ;)

Distance of those snipers? Well since they use .22LR's to take out lights and such, not too far. I have a .22mag and to take out a wild dog or coyote I'd have to be no farther than 100yrds with a headshot to take one out. Since police/LE/SWAT use .22LRs to take out guard dogs and such to clear a way for entry teams, then that'd put them at about 50-75yrds. Skilled paintball snipers can engage at 40-50yrds if they've had trigger time. That puts them at the same distance. Range isnt an issue though, I've yet to be convinced otherwise based on pre-Nam rifles and snipers. Moreso, the LE snipers hide, they use cover so they're not seen. So do the entry teams. Smoke, CS gas, broken lights from the sniper's .22, shields, camo/attire, and the way they clear rooms uses the walls as shields/bunkers/cover. Same can be applied to the military.

The difference is the mindset and HOW. Those who have been labeled as a sniper conduct similar tasks in a different way.

However, none of this matters since we all know that we're all stubborn and will easily dismiss some 'facts' as opinion based, circumstantional, or irrelavant even though that the individuals find them important to the debate.

As far as if they're overrated, yes and no. At your field, that depends on your rep. Some people look at the guy in the ghillie with fear just because he has one. However here, there are so many and so many dispute the existance or logistics, it doesnt mean much.

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 19 February 2007 - 10:24 PM

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#48 User is offline   CamoDeafie 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:25 PM

you sure they use just the .22lrs? they also use 308s, 300wmgs, 22-250 rems, and a variety of other firearms. i know of the LA SWAT teams who has a longer distance to cover and the risk of having to get the bullets thru barriers. also, the teams in my old home area are usually faced with farm property standoffs, among other things and as such uses ghillies and similar stuff that they bring into action in trunk of cars. but it is the mindset that is important for ambushers.
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#49 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:27 PM

View PostCamoDeafie, on Feb 19 2007, 10:25 PM, said:

you sure they use just the .22lrs? they also use 308s, 300wmgs, 22-250 rems, and a variety of other firearms. i know of the LA SWAT teams who has a longer distance to cover and the risk of having to get the bullets thru barriers. also, the teams in my old home area are usually faced with farm property standoffs, among other things and as such uses ghillies and similar stuff that they bring into action in trunk of cars. but it is the mindset that is important for ambushers.

Read the purpose again, not for the actual takedowns. For 'misc.' jobs such as lights and guard dogs. If you want your entry team to get in unoticed you can have the sniper, with an easily muffled .22, take out the dog and lights. This would keep the OpFor unaware of the entry team coming. Sorry bout the confusion. ^_^

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 19 February 2007 - 10:52 PM

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#50 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 07:08 AM

View PostFontain, on Feb 15 2007, 10:14 AM, said:

Does any one else think that snipers r overated in paintball, the same with the sniper position as well.



SOME snipers in paintball are overrated, just as are other positions, like Commander (ever notice how many of those we have here? Seems like it's 10:1 sometimes!), and in SOME applications, the sniper position is overrated.

It seems to me that the reason the sniper position is always such a debated subject here is that so few people really understand the sniper role outside paintball applications, then subsequently fail to effectively translate the position to paintball applications. Books have been written about snipers, yet the sniper "romantics" are always trying to define the position in five "mystical" words or less, which is usually the first clue that they don't know what they are talking about. Then they go on to talk about eliminating a whole squad, which means they're exaggerating, or the other team is a bunch of rookies without the sense to take cover, and while the sniper's position is revealed, they are too intimidated or unorganized to do anything about that. It's not that the sniper is so good, it's that his opposition is so bad. Then you have those whom confuse sniping with ambushing...they're completely different. A sniper seeks to covertly eliminate mission designated targets from a concealed position which he works to maintain...a sniper is not a sniper after his position is compromised. An ambusher hides only until the ambush is initiated, and when an all-out assault against the enemy is directly engaged. Cover is not necessarily used by ambushers to hide from the enemy after the ambush initiates, but not to be hit by paintballs. A sniper may be used effectively to initiate an ambush, but isn't going to a truly effective ambusher.

Most dictionaries define a sniper as a precision shooter who eliminates designated targets from a concealed position. Snipers are people who can hit a more defined or specific target at a frequency much higher than their peers regardless of distance, and from a position hidden or obstructed from the the intended target's view. Does that mean a ghillie is required? No, because not all sniper missions occur in natural settings, and a sniper can hide from view on a rooftop or building window instead of behind a tree. Does that mean the sniper's position will not be compromised when he takes his shot? No. In many instances, after a sniper makes his first shot, the presence of a sniper is announced, and subsequent targets have a way of making themselves scarce...at least the smart ones do. Sometimes that's all a sniper has to do to be effective...disperse, distract, divert, delay, observe. A sniper isn't going to be a particularly useful member of the team in short, walk-on types of play. By the time a sniper is in position, the game is over, and all the sniper did was put his team one-man down. In longer outlaw games with less structured play, or scenario and MILSIM events, there is definitely opportunity for a sniper to be effective and useful...applications are as endless as the imagination.

In paintball, are there some people who are better marksmen than others, despite the unstable trajectories of paintballs? We know there are. Does this make them snipers? No, but they have the potential if their shooting skills can be combined with field knowledge and skills, communication, teamwork, intel, stealth, and cover to conceal their actions and support their team's objectives. Are there some people who prefer to don environment appropriate camouflage or ghillies, employ stealth and cover to eliminate a few, choice targets, with a few, well placed shots? We know there are. Does this make them snipers? No, but they have the potential if they can actually score some eliminations or achieve mission objectives before/without detection and avoid all-out confrontations. Again, SOME snipers are overrated, and in SOME instances, the sniper role is overrated, but that all depends on perspective, expectations, experience, and application. A ghillie and 21' barrel do not a sniper make.

Based upon most of what I have read here and in other sniper posts, I would say we have several very poor snipers here, and more than a few people on both sides of the sniper debate with some very limited understanding and vision of the sniper role.
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#51 User is offline   Guy In Digi Camo 

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 12:16 PM

The sniper name was, as menttioned, developed as a way to sum up how a person plays. This happens alot in the english language and was adapted to paintball becaseue itts way faster to say sniper than a whole sentence during the course of a battle.

my tactics satement was a summing up of how 90% of paintball is played in outlaw paintball. most of the action is in your face, which makes the game fun. i guess the military does use some of the tactics from SWAT but most of the time it is a long standoff at long ranges.

Srry to get balistics involved in the matter.

have any of you seen the specops sniper video, i got a pirated copy i think off the internet.
its interesting but they make points that paintball sniper really cant compare to military snipers, other than camo and feildcraft. they dont have hrs to take shots, they dont engage in close quarters squad tactics, the lsit goes on.

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It seems to me that the reason the sniper position is always such a debated subject here is that so few people really understand the sniper role outside paintball applications, then subsequently fail to effectively translate the position to paintball applications. Books have been written about snipers

Wrong people often know more about military snipers then try top apply those traits to paintball where u cant really do so. I watch the History and discovery channle so ive seen a shows on , sniping guns, camo, and the overall sniper itself, as well as a history of sniping. So people define themselves, sometimes, by what actual military snipers do , rather than how paintball sniping is palyed.

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A sniper isn't going to be a particularly useful member of the team in short, walk-on types of play. By the time a sniper is in position, the game is over, and all the sniper did was put his team one-man down. In longer outlaw games with less structured play, or scenario and MILSIM events, there is definitely opportunity for a sniper to be effective and useful...applications are as endless as the imagination.


i agree with that statement but when i play otulaw games i play a different position, see the link in my sig, but for longer games ill break out my ghille and move to "sniper" tactics which compliments the overall teams strategy.

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Based upon most of what I have read here and in other sniper posts, I would say we have several very poor snipers here, and more than a few people on both sides of the sniper debate with some very limited understanding and vision of the sniper role.


yes that is a possiblities, you alwasy get bad apples in with good ones, this leads to those who are masters of "sniping" to get beat down casue some noob talked trash about "sniping". Yes both sides will have stupid people but arguments wouldnt be that fun without them :ghillie:

Good job keeping this topic clean guys.
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#52 User is offline   Chaos Fiend 

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 03:26 PM

how bout we just label them marksmen?
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#53 User is offline   silent1 

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 04:21 PM

know what i don't get is why everyone is always burning snipers, just because they got shot by someone they couldn't see. you don't see snipers going around and trash talking positions like the dagger( no offense)
but it just gets annoying.

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#54 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:32 PM

View PostChaos Fiend, on Feb 20 2007, 03:26 PM, said:

how bout we just label them marksmen?

Because people connect them with squads and paintball snipers are normally an apendage, not part of the body.
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#55 User is offline   Reb 

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:32 AM

View Postghostinthewood, on Feb 20 2007, 05:32 PM, said:

View PostChaos Fiend, on Feb 20 2007, 03:26 PM, said:

how bout we just label them marksmen?

Because people connect them with squads and paintball snipers are normally an apendage, not part of the body.


This is where I see the problem to be honest.

I don't care what you call yourself when you play, hell, call yourself a paratrooper or a landmine for all I care, but when you play, play as a member of a team instead of not 'being part of the body'

If a 'sniper' is so in tune with the image he's given himself based on real world scenarios and tactics, he is useless to a team. I've seen it dozens of times.....the sniper crawls through the brush while the rest of the team sprints at the beginning of the game. My 5 man team is down to 4 because we left our 'sneaky sniper' low crawling through the weeds 60 yards back trying to set up an ambush, or he's out of range on the flank hoping to get his OSOK.

Sniper tactics are NOT always practical in a game situation. WHen they are, every member of the teeam should be capable of utilizing them. When they aren't, the player who refuses to deviate from them is a worthless player and can screw his team. A running fight between two teams doesn't have a place for a man in a ghillie suit.

A player who demonstrates to me that he is a 'sniper' and 'sniper' alone demonstrates his unwillingness to operate WITH my team simply because the his tactics are hampered due to the limitations presented to them by the nature of the game.

If a player is willing to operate as part of a team, they may be crawling through the brush or setting up an ambush, but they are also readily available to make a fast, hard assault on a covered position should the need arise.

I guess my real concern is that for all their claims, 'snipers' aren't versatile enough to be worthwhile team players.

I have never, and I will never buy the "they can be the most valuable man on your team" line, simply because I've seen too many times where they get trapped, overrun and outgunned trying to play Hathcock. I've never had 7 of my teammates pinned down by one guy, and I've never had any one of my team pin down 7 players on his own.

Paintball, unless you're playing iron man, is a team sport. If you're any good at it, you're a good team player or team leader. Low crawling through the brush as an 'appendage' as opposed to a well drilled 'part' only limits your capabilities as a team player.

And none of this is an individual assault on anyone here, My claims are based on personal observations as well as study and analysis of the tactics in question.

I guess my arguments have changed. Perhaps they DO exist afterall......In fact, I'm almost willing to accept that they do. I mean, some of us may not like the idea, but they're there, ghillies, longbows and all. THe new and improved question is, is threatening the effectiveness of your team worth donning the ghillie suit and playing 'hero?'

This post has been edited by Reb: 21 February 2007 - 10:35 AM

I have never been shot by a player in a ghillie suit.
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#56 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 12:00 PM

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...the sniper crawls through the brush while the rest of the team sprints at the beginning of the game. My 5 man team is down to 4 because we left our 'sneaky sniper' low crawling through the weeds...

...Sniper tactics are NOT always practical in a game situation. WHen they are, every member of the teeam should be capable of utilizing them. When they aren't, the player who refuses to deviate from them is a worthless player and can screw his team. A running fight between two teams doesn't have a place for a man in a ghillie suit...


That's similar to my argument...snipers are only applicable or useful in SOME situations, even in real-life situations. In shorter games such as walk-on play, all a sniper really does is put his team one down. In a longer outlaw, scenario, or MILSIM game, a sniper may be useful as part of an ambush, diversion, providing intel, etc., because he has the luxury of time to get into position.

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...If a player is willing to operate as part of a team, they may be crawling through the brush or setting up an ambush, but they are also readily available to make a fast, hard assault on a covered position should the need arise...


Every member of the team, including snipers, have to coordinate their actions with and to support the objectives of the team.

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...for all their claims, 'snipers' aren't versatile enough to be worthwhile team players...I will never buy the "they can be the most valuable man on your team" line...


I think the sniper can be a versatile member of a team, but as I stated in my previous post, as the sniper role has been presented and demonstrated within this forum, I do not believe many here are capable of utilizing a sniper in a manner and in situations that would deliver any distinct advantage to the team. I do believe a sniper has useful paintball applications, I just see little evidence here that people truly understand the role, and therefore the role's potential is never achieved.

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I guess my arguments have changed. Perhaps they DO exist afterall......In fact, I'm almost willing to accept that they do. I mean, some of us may not like the idea, but they're there, ghillies, longbows and all. THe new and improved question is, is threatening the effectiveness of your team worth donning the ghillie suit and playing 'hero?'


I conditionally agree with this statement. I too, believe that snipers DO exist in paintball, and I have played with and against some good ones, however my condition is that for the most part, most sniper claims here serve to discredit the real and the potential contributions a paintball sniper can make to the team under the right circumstances. In SOME instances, the sniper position and contribution is overrated. We cannot deny the role exists, however we can deny it exists in the manner or condition so many here claim it does. I understand some exaggerated claims are simple cases of bravado, embellishment, or "spicing up", but given the rather dubious reputation of paintball snipers, such stories do more to hurt, than build the sniper case. Many of the stories we read here perpetuate the "sniper mystique", but do little to develop the understanding of the position and fail to demonstrate the value a sniper can deliver to the team.

This post has been edited by Warpaint: 21 February 2007 - 01:32 PM

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#57 User is offline   Florentine 

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 03:55 PM

View PostTREE FITTY, on Feb 15 2007, 08:48 AM, said:

snipers are snipers. You love them on your team, you curse them on the other. It's just like tanks. You can never really decide if you like themn 100% or not, simply because if you get hit, you hate them, if your sniper covers your back, you love em.

My personal opinion, though, is that since there is no ballistic advantage, just open your eyes, try to spot them. They're fair in paintball, because anybody can throw on ghillie, stay still and quiet, and pop a potshot off.

Snipers=Fair, but gets one mad when hit by them.


that is fricken true...you can hate them when your gettin shot by them...or love them when theyre on your team...or love them when theyre bein covered my paint and the dagger gets behind them and shoots them...now thats fun
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#58 User is offline   sniper82 

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 05:47 PM

It is not like we are invincable we too get out alot because we are snipers. It is just a fun way to play. Like a position in football or something.
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#59 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:04 PM

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It is not like we are invincable we too get out alot because we are snipers. It is just a fun way to play. Like a position in football or something.


That's a valid comment. It may not always be practical to include sniper assignments to a game, but under the right circumstances, it adds another element of challenge and enjoyment to the game...it's all "pretend" anyway...what is the real harm in "pretending" a little harder and having a little more fun? :unsure:
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#60 User is offline   Bruid 

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:09 AM

View PostWarpaint, on Feb 21 2007, 08:04 PM, said:

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It is not like we are invincable we too get out alot because we are snipers. It is just a fun way to play. Like a position in football or something.


That's a valid comment. It may not always be practical to include sniper assignments to a game, but under the right circumstances, it adds another element of challenge and enjoyment to the game...it's all "pretend" anyway...what is the real harm in "pretending" a little harder and having a little more fun? :evil:


I think this is part of why some snipers aren't welcomed or have even given the position a bad name. They get so stuck on being a sniper that they don't realize that sometimes you have to play a different way. If the game is 15 minutes long and the sniper decides to do a slow crawl up the field he isn't helping his team when they're running ahead for a full on firefight. It's all about knowing when to use the position and when to discard it for another. :)
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