Special Ops Paintball: with all other varables equal - Special Ops Paintball

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with all other varables equal the player with the fastes marker will win Rate Topic: -----

Poll: agree or disagree (63 member(s) have cast votes)

do you agree or disagree

  1. agreed (16 votes [29.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.09%

  2. disagree (please explain) (39 votes [70.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.91%

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#61 User is offline   Mobles 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 04:50 PM

View PostZ3R0, on Jan 7 2008, 04:26 PM, said:

Only one hit you mean. You don't always hit when you shoot, otherwise this would be a very difficult game for new players.

-Z3R0

yeah what ever you know what i mean ;) ..actually with me it only takes one shot :evil:
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#62 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 04:51 PM

View Postoldguny, on Jan 7 2008, 04:02 PM, said:

Two words Pump Player!


Two words: that's me!

View PostT-Freak, on Jan 7 2008, 06:50 PM, said:

View PostZ3R0, on Jan 7 2008, 04:26 PM, said:

Only one hit you mean. You don't always hit when you shoot, otherwise this would be a very difficult game for new players.

-Z3R0

yeah what ever you know what i mean ;) ..actually with me it only takes one shot :dry:


Uh huh, right :evil:.

-Z3R0
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#63 User is offline   deathinator6 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:06 PM

You've never played a pump player before have you?
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#64 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:07 PM

No, actually I haven't. But I am one. Does that count? I'm the only pump player I know, so I don't know what it's like to play against one.

-Z3R0

This post has been edited by Z3R0: 07 January 2008 - 05:13 PM

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#65 User is offline   deathinator6 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:15 PM

I wasn't talking to you...


Also, what about the player with the lower ROF being scared to death of being lit up (affecting his performance?)
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#66 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:16 PM

Oh. Then who did you mean...?

And as for the fear of being lit up... well. Didn't stop me from fighting against an Infamous Timmy with my PGP...

-Z3R0
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#67 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:19 PM

View Postandrew1987, on Jan 6 2008, 05:56 PM, said:

be it resolved that
THESIS: with all other variables in a game equal, The player with the highter rate of fire will win


when any 2 players of apposing teams make contact on the field, asuming that all other in game varables are the same, the player who will win every time is the player with

a longer version of the same situation

player A vs player B

when we assume that both players A and B are equal in skill, field position, experience, accuracy, paint quality and all other variables. both players are using sl74s player B has his set to 7 balls per second player A has his set to 18

the key to this is that both players are equal in every way accept rate of fire

do you agree or disagree, why?

i left a loop hole that puzuma found in a second, and he is right, the player shooting faster would run out of paint first, so the senearion is now that both players have enought paint for 5 min of sustained fire



Not true. In a game like that, it's 90% luck who gets hit first. And it's almost always the first couple of shots from a rope that hits someone initially (then they get hit by the 12 others marked "occupant"). If the first few shots miss, then the person knows there's a rope coming and hides behind a bunker. End result is that the 7 bps player has about an equal chance of hitting as the 15 BPS one.

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#68 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:19 PM

View PostJackRock, on Jan 7 2008, 06:49 PM, said:

View PostZ3R0, on Jan 7 2008, 04:48 PM, said:

Again, you're assuming that because you have a higher rate of fire, you will shoot faster more often. Maybe most people are that way, but I know it's possible to conserve paint with a faster marker. I'm just saying that the capability for a fast marker is an advantage.

Faster marker doesn't mean more paint carried. This is proven with the Longbow. 21 shots on a marker capable of 30bps?

-Z3R0



And the rules of the scenario, if you read the entire thread, already stated that each player must shoot at maximum ROF.


Missed this post. This scenario is silly, I don't like it. If you read my previous posts I've established a more simple scenario that makes more sense. I have read the entire thread though, thanks.

-Z3R0
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#69 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:22 PM

View PostZ3R0, on Jan 7 2008, 06:48 PM, said:

Again, you're assuming that because you have a higher rate of fire, you will shoot faster more often. Maybe most people are that way, but I know it's possible to conserve paint with a faster marker. I'm just saying that the higher ROF capability for a fast marker is an advantage.

-Z3R0

And AGAIN your adding a variable. Did you even read the first couple of lines in the first post or what?

View Postandrew1987, on Jan 6 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

be it resolved that
THESIS: with all other variables in a game equal, The player with the highter rate of fire will win


One more time to make sure you get it and understand it.: with all other variables in a game equal

That means that BOTH players must be shooting at their respective markers top set rof. There is no "they aren't going to shoot full speed all the time".

The reality of the proposed situation, unrealistic or not, dictates that the final advantage goes to the lower speed due to "extra" ammo.

Stating that "more balls in the air makes it more likely to get an elim" doesn't cut it.
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#70 User is offline   Pacman 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:27 PM

View PostPacman, on Jan 7 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

Please. please, please, let me be the first to answer this correctly... :P :D

Ok, here's the setup as I read it from everyones input.

One player playing against his/her clone. Both are strapped in chairs facing each other at 75'. They are inside a white padded room with equal lighting from all sides, 15% humidity and no wind. Both are wearing headphones emitting white sound. They are both given identical markers with identical paint. Player-A's marker is set to shoot 7 BPS and Player-B's marker is set to shoot 21 BPS. Both markers are set for full-auto fire. Half-way between the two players is a set of standard dragster starting lights, each set 10 feet to the side of the shooting lane, thus making the width of the shooting lane 20', and the length as already stated above at 75'. Both players have shooting rests attached to their chairs enabling them to shot with the most accuracy. Both markers start with their aim point being the top of the dragster starting light unit on the right side of their facing.

When the green light of the dragster starting lights shines, both players start shooting, adjusting their line of fire at the identical rate with both players zeroing in on their opponents head at the same identical time.

Who Wins???

They are both eliminated because both would be hit at the same approximate time. Neither would be able to determine which one had shot the other first, and since both are woodsball players, and good sports, they would each call themselves out.

Of course, now they are still stuck in the padded room, strapped in their respective chairs, with no one there to free either of them.

I guess I'll just have to wait until the nice guys in the white jackets come to visit us, I mean them...

I win.......... Pacman

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#71 User is offline   Pacman 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:32 PM

View PostPuzuma, on Jan 7 2008, 05:22 PM, said:

The reality of the proposed situation, unrealistic or not, dictates that the final advantage goes to the lower speed due to "extra" ammo.

Stating that "more balls in the air makes it more likely to get an elim" doesn't cut it.

Actually, you have just named an advantage for each, so all things are still equal.

Player-1: Lower ROF = Advantage = More available ammo.
Player-2: Higher ROF = Advantage = More possible hits in the air at one time.

Now, all things being equal in every other aspect, they both have one advantage, thus each advantage cancels out the other, so they are still equal, no real advantage...

OK, I'm going back to my nice quiet white padded room.........

This post has been edited by Pacman: 07 January 2008 - 05:33 PM

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#72 User is offline   gameystar333 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:39 PM

with all other varibles equil they are both out if no one has an advantage than they will fire the firstball with the same accuracy hit eachother and call out

unless they both miss because than the player with the higher rate of fire will get the second shot off faster and than that one will hit or miss if said players accuracy is the same if his second shot misses then so will the other players shot will miss to this pattern will repeat until the player with the higher rof will land the kill shot

in closing the player with the higher rof will win and if not he will tie

HOWEVER this is under absolute best conditions assuming that all these things are equal meening that these have no use on the field

This post has been edited by gameystar333: 09 January 2008 - 08:24 PM

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#73 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:49 PM

View PostPuzuma, on Jan 7 2008, 07:22 PM, said:

View PostZ3R0, on Jan 7 2008, 06:48 PM, said:

Again, you're assuming that because you have a higher rate of fire, you will shoot faster more often. Maybe most people are that way, but I know it's possible to conserve paint with a faster marker. I'm just saying that the higher ROF capability for a fast marker is an advantage.

-Z3R0

And AGAIN your adding a variable. Did you even read the first couple of lines in the first post or what?

View Postandrew1987, on Jan 6 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

be it resolved that
THESIS: with all other variables in a game equal, The player with the highter rate of fire will win


One more time to make sure you get it and understand it.: with all other variables in a game equal

That means that BOTH players must be shooting at their respective markers top set rof. There is no "they aren't going to shoot full speed all the time".

The reality of the proposed situation, unrealistic or not, dictates that the final advantage goes to the lower speed due to "extra" ammo.

Stating that "more balls in the air makes it more likely to get an elim" doesn't cut it.


I know what the OP said. But I don't think that scenario is very fair if the players can't control their rates of fire, it's either "off or on" essentially. If that's how it is, then yes, actually you are correct and the lower ROF will most likely win.

I need to ask if you've read my other posts though... it seems at this point we're both looking at two somewhat different scenarios that will have nearly opposite outcomes because of that one minor variation.

View Postgameystar333, on Jan 7 2008, 07:39 PM, said:

with all other varibles equil they are both out if no one has an advantage than they wil fire the firstball with the same accuracy hit eachother and call out

unless they both miss becaause than the player with the higher rate of fire will get the second shot off faster and than that one will hit or miss if said players accuracy is the same if his second shot misses then so will the other players shot will miss to this pattern will repeat until the player with the higher rof will land the kill shot

in closing the player with the higher rof will win and if not he will tie

HOWEVER this is under absolute best conditions assuming that all these things are equal meening that these have no use on the field


Exactly what I meant when I first said it, and what I still mean when I say it. I never said this was how real life worked.

-Z3R0
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#74 User is offline   Pwnt 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 07:23 PM

View PostZ3R0, on Jan 7 2008, 06:49 PM, said:

I never said this was how real life worked.

-Z3R0


Then... why bother?

Z3R0, heres the problem. There are certain other variables that have to be determined. You cant say "with all other variables equal" because there are simply too many. Case in point: on/off firing. To REALLY make it equal, yea, on/off firing would be the most equal. Theres only two possibilities for this one variable.

But you say "no! players of this caliber will be able to control their fire rate." Well, now we have an unlimited number of possibilities for this variable don't we. Which seems more "fair" to you?

Once again, you are falling prey to your own biased thinking. You already have in mind that a higher ROF will win, and I bet you won't stop setting the variables so that YOUR argument comes out on top in the end. Not consciously, but its happening. Step back and take an objective look at your arguments, and the way you keep bringing in rules that ultimately would support your line of thinking.

My own stance is, and remains this: The question is impossible to really answer. There are too many variables.

Oh, and, the longbow? Once again, trading advantages for others. Lower profile. Disadvantage, not enough balls. Try and think in terms of trade-offs here? Its the only real way to do it.
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#75 User is offline   Helmi_17 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 07:36 PM

well... you can say that the variables are equal other than firepower...

lets go even further and say that you have me with a semiautomatic X7 and a stiffi 14 in inch barrel, vs. clone me with an egripped x7 a 14 inch stiffi and an egrip at 20bps.

NOW all other variables are, in fact, identical.

The only logical outcome is for either

a ) neither player is ever tagged
b ) both players are tagged within an irrelevant amount of time of eachother and are both eliminated from the game.

FIREPOWER helps in certain situations (cover fire in team tactics) however... in a 1 on 1 showdown... Rate of fire is irrelevant, the only things that matter are outthinking your opponent and stealing the initiative from him.

This post has been edited by Helmi_17: 07 January 2008 - 07:36 PM

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