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question about launcher plans i have a plan for one with co2... Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   PUNISHMENT 

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:25 AM

ok, i need your guys advice about this....

my plan is to build a launcher that runs off a 9oz. co2 tank. Ive figured I would run it on a remote straight to a metal valve(no pvc pressure chamber at all) and run that valve into a barrel made of schedule 40 pvc. my question is, is regular co2, running from a remote into a launcher, at a safe enough pressure that the velicity of the object im shooting won't punch through someone?

is 800 psi safe to shoot nerf footballs, paint grenades, paintball buck-shot, etc?
my tippmann operates at 800psi, thats why i ask. would the increased mass of these projectiles make them more hazardous to use?

what would be a safe operating pressure for these projectiles?
would putting something like a palmer regulator in the mix keep the pressure low so this launcher can be used in games?
do i just have to worry about the FPS of the projectile im shooting?


I really want to make a launcher that is fast firing so i can lay down effective fire on a massive scale. if it factors into the equasion at all, I was planning to have a 10-15" barrel.


also, ive looked at other launcher threads on here, and one says that it is suggested for low pressure launchers to have a 1:1 ratio for barrel to pressure chamber. does this mean a volume ratio of one to one so that the unpressurized volume of air in both chambers is the same?

This post has been edited by PUNISHMENT: 06 March 2008 - 11:50 AM

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#2 User is offline   PUNISHMENT 

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:43 AM

someone? anyone?

c'mon, even a PM, anything to give me a bit of information. I dont want to mess up and injure someone. please, any feedback is useful...
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#3 User is offline   Viherkogen 

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 03:19 PM

The system you want to use is quite common among first time launcher builders, or those how don't want to buy a regulator. The plan you are using is inefficient, but perfectly safe to use with any ammo, so long as you keep the barrel length reasonable(18"-24").

You have to realize though that extra air will be released between the time your ammo leaves the barrel and the time you react and shut the valve. Your shots will also be inconsistent due to you not being able to sut the valve at the same time every shot. there is a simple fix though which adds only one extra valve and some pipe. Add an extra valve after the remote line and have it feed a 2"-8" pipe depending on how large of a pipe, barrel, and velocity you are using.

Look around for some metal pipe launchers in this section and try to find some specifics, and don't be afraid to pm people about their design. They will most likely tell you as their way to gloat. ;)
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#4 User is offline   Silent-7 

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 03:34 PM

I'm actually not positive how well this would work...
I don't think there will be any safety issues - in fact, I think you may not get nearly the power you're hoping for. Normally, pressurized gas of some sort rushes through a valve of 1" or 3/4" diameter or so to fire the projectile. By using no chamber at all, your "valve" diameter is essentially the diameter of your remote line - which is very small, and thus limits air flow. My prediction is that the projectile will accelerate far too slowly, and will have hardly achieved any velocity at all by the time it exits the barrel.

Please feel free to PM me if you want any suggestions for a design. I've built a handful of launchers myself (including a radio-controlled turret) and I've studied others' launchers extensively. I'd love to help you out.
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#5 User is offline   PUNISHMENT 

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 04:40 PM

View PostSilent-7, on Mar 7 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

I'm actually not positive how well this would work...
I don't think there will be any safety issues - in fact, I think you may not get nearly the power you're hoping for. Normally, pressurized gas of some sort rushes through a valve of 1" or 3/4" diameter or so to fire the projectile. By using no chamber at all, your "valve" diameter is essentially the diameter of your remote line - which is very small, and thus limits air flow. My prediction is that the projectile will accelerate far too slowly, and will have hardly achieved any velocity at all by the time it exits the barrel.

Please feel free to PM me if you want any suggestions for a design. I've built a handful of launchers myself (including a radio-controlled turret) and I've studied others' launchers extensively. I'd love to help you out.

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#6 User is offline   goathunter 

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 01:20 PM

Your design will not work how you think it will. You'll be darn lucky to get 50 ft. out of a nerf with a 2" barrel. Simply put the opening time of a ball valve with is not conducive to a chamber-less cannon. If you want it to work you'll have to get a pressure chamber of some sort. That could even be a short hydraulic hose before the valve. It is possible to switch to a pressure washer valve and that may work with just the remote.
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#7 User is offline   Scavies 

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 08:18 PM

http://www.s-ohe.com...%20dioxide.html (Vapor pressures of CO2. How much pressure is in your launcher)

You're pressure if ur using CO2 is probably wrong. Just remember, at your rate of expansion expect the CO2 is about -10 C unless you warm it up.

The idea will work alright..ly. It should be safe.
Since this isn't going to be double ball valve you are going to quickly find that you will be wasting a lot of CO2 between shots

You may want to add a 4X3/4 or so inch expansion chamber just because you're remote will not be adaquate

Also, you talked about chamber to barrel ratios. This goes back to boyle's law, which basically says as pressure increases volume decreases, translated to if you're chamber is the same volume as the barrel, by the time the air gets to the end of the barrel the total pressure will be cut in half (minus a tiny bit caused by friction etc...)

The equation is P^1 X V^1= P^2 X V^2

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#8 User is offline   PUNISHMENT 

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 12:06 PM

well, i feel really smart now, i just figured out sprinkler valves, and the electronic solenoid ones too. thats going to be the base of my launcher :ghillie:

im going to try to wire one up, to fire from a switch :huh: this should be fun
They call me PUNISHMENT. Care to find out why?
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#9 User is offline   Silent-7 

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 02:22 PM

^^^You may already know this, but just in case you don't...

Recognize that you won't be able to test your valve without putting it under pressure. So if you wire it up, hit the switch, and try to blow through the valve or something, it won't work. A sprinkler valve requires a fair amount of pressure to be able to open. If you really want to test it before installing it in your cannon, you can always buy a few extra fittings to hook the valve up to a garden hose - that provides the necessary pressure for the valve to operate. Or, if you have faith in your own abilities, you can just put the cannon together and hope it works!

That caused me a good deal of frustration the first time I tried to use a sprinkler valve, so I thought I'd save you the time and annoyance of searching the internet for an explanation as to why your valve won't open. :comp:

This post has been edited by Silent-7: 09 March 2008 - 02:23 PM

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#10 User is offline   PUNISHMENT 

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 07:19 PM

View PostSilent-7, on Mar 9 2008, 02:22 PM, said:

^^^You may already know this, but just in case you don't...

Recognize that you won't be able to test your valve without putting it under pressure. So if you wire it up, hit the switch, and try to blow through the valve or something, it won't work. A sprinkler valve requires a fair amount of pressure to be able to open. If you really want to test it before installing it in your cannon, you can always buy a few extra fittings to hook the valve up to a garden hose - that provides the necessary pressure for the valve to operate. Or, if you have faith in your own abilities, you can just put the cannon together and hope it works!

That caused me a good deal of frustration the first time I tried to use a sprinkler valve, so I thought I'd save you the time and annoyance of searching the internet for an explanation as to why your valve won't open. ;)

ive done a lot of work with PVC pipe (i redid all the plumbing in my house, as well as my neighbors) so im certain the seals on the pvc will be fine. is there anything i need to know about drilling the holes for the guage and fill nipple? is there any kind o sealant i need to put around them? i was thinking of just caulking around them with shower/sink caulk. i think this would provide an excelent seal. as far as the sprinkler valve goes, how much pressure has to be on it for it to open? 30 psi? more? now that i get to thinking about it, it will still be simple to check to see if the pressure chamber is sealed properly, just by putting some air in it and checking for leaks with soapy water. but if the sprinkler valve doesnt work after i get everything hooked up and under pressure, is there a bleed valve that i can manually use to release the pressure?


im almost ready to build this, its going to be one of my spring break projects since i have nowhere to go
They call me PUNISHMENT. Care to find out why?
if you let your girlfriend play paintball better than you, put this in your sig.
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WTB: Planet Eclipse '07 EGO for $700 or less. must be in great shape.
WTB: a crossfire 68/45 HP tank RED for less than $140 (must be in great shape, still under hydro)
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#11 User is offline   Silent-7 

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 08:03 PM

If you're planning on running lower pressures, then it wouldn't hurt to give the caulk a shot. I have never tried such a thing, so I don't know if it would be effective or not. Although if the threads you tap are true, and you use plenty of teflon tape, leaks shouldn't be a big deal. I say "shouldn't" because I've had leaks occur in the most random places before, so you never know.
If the caulk doesn't seem to stand up to the pressure, you could always try some JB Weld or something a little more structural like that. I would think that a good airtight seal would still occur.
There's actually a great product you can buy where you essentially mix powdered PVC with a form of PVC cement to make a sludge that dries into new PVC plastic. It makes a great PVC-to-PVC seal, but I don't know how well it would work with a pressure gauge or any other metal interface.

I couldn't tell you exactly how much pressure is needed to open a sprinkler valve, but I feel confident that 30psi should be plenty. I don't think the number is really all that high, it's just that human lungs (which I tried to test with) aren't all that powerful pressure-wise; they're better suited to volume.

And yes, all sprinkler valves that I've seen have a manual bleed valve. The kind that I use has a small black screw sticking out the top. To release the pressure, you take a flathead screwdriver and just turn the screw about a quarter of a turn until the pressure is out.
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Posted 09 March 2008 - 08:13 PM

View PostSilent-7, on Mar 9 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

If you're planning on running lower pressures, then it wouldn't hurt to give the caulk a shot. I have never tried such a thing, so I don't know if it would be effective or not. Although if the threads you tap are true, and you use plenty of teflon tape, leaks shouldn't be a big deal. I say "shouldn't" because I've had leaks occur in the most random places before, so you never know.
If the caulk doesn't seem to stand up to the pressure, you could always try some JB Weld or something a little more structural like that. I would think that a good airtight seal would still occur.
There's actually a great product you can buy where you essentially mix powdered PVC with a form of PVC cement to make a sludge that dries into new PVC plastic. It makes a great PVC-to-PVC seal, but I don't know how well it would work with a pressure gauge or any other metal interface.

I couldn't tell you exactly how much pressure is needed to open a sprinkler valve, but I feel confident that 30psi should be plenty. I don't think the number is really all that high, it's just that human lungs (which I tried to test with) aren't all that powerful pressure-wise; they're better suited to volume.

And yes, all sprinkler valves that I've seen have a manual bleed valve. The kind that I use has a small black screw sticking out the top. To release the pressure, you take a flathead screwdriver and just turn the screw about a quarter of a turn until the pressure is out.

yeah im gonna put a lot of teflon tape on it, but i want to make sure its secure.


im going to start getting supplies tuesday, hopefully ill start building it wednesday or thursday.
They call me PUNISHMENT. Care to find out why?
if you let your girlfriend play paintball better than you, put this in your sig.
Soon to be member of the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS. Where the hardcore kids play.
WTB: Planet Eclipse '07 EGO for $700 or less. must be in great shape.
WTB: a crossfire 68/45 HP tank RED for less than $140 (must be in great shape, still under hydro)
Special Ops Counter-Sniper #1 wanna be one? follow the link.
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