Special Ops Paintball: Kee & HK make a deal... - Special Ops Paintball

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Kee & HK make a deal... bringing back the TM-7 Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:35 AM

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:

Also. One might wonder why HK has not taken a stance towards the TM-15. Weapon smuggling bastards...


TM-15 isn't close enough to a design that is purely them.

The AR-15 platform (M16/M4/H&K 416/et al) is so widespread nobody has a "patent" on what the "general appearance" of it. There was even some court ruling in the past few years (within last 5, forgot when) that the term "M4" is generic and cannot be trademarked by Colt (who was suing another gun manufacturer Bushmaster, but that's another story)
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#17 User is offline   US_Army_Guy 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:07 PM

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on 11 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I am surprised that Tippmann has not been attacked by H&K yet. The A5 resembles an MP5 variant.


Tippmann is also under Kee Action Sports (thats what Im assuming considering they own BT and BT and Tippmann are sister companies).


Actually Tippmann is not owned by Kee (though Summit Partners has a majority holding). BT paintball is its own separate company started by Ben Tippmann (one of Dennis Tippmann's sons) because he didn't like the direction his father was taking the company business wise.
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#18 User is offline   edtoro 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 06:48 PM

View PostThalion, on 25 August 2010 - 12:35 PM, said:

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:

Also. One might wonder why HK has not taken a stance towards the TM-15. Weapon smuggling bastards...


TM-15 isn't close enough to a design that is purely them.

The AR-15 platform (M16/M4/H&K 416/et al) is so widespread nobody has a "patent" on what the "general appearance" of it. There was even some court ruling in the past few years (within last 5, forgot when) that the term "M4" is generic and cannot be trademarked by Colt (who was suing another gun manufacturer Bushmaster, but that's another story)


The TM-15 is a scenario version paintball gun of the HK's Model 416 (HK-416). One can see the similarities between them at a glance duh.

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#19 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:53 AM

View Postedtoro, on 25 August 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

The TM-15 is a scenario version paintball gun of the HK's Model 416 (HK-416). One can see the similarities between them at a glance duh.


But the 416 doesn't have a unique general appearance either.

The 416 is a redesign of the AR-15, with some slight cosmetic changes and a major gas system change (piston versus DI).

H&K doesn't have the exclusive rights to anything on the 416 except that gas system and the trademark name, neither of which remotely apply to the TM15. The overall AR look is completely fair game, established by precedent all over (case in point - do a search on the internet and see how many firearm companies make an AR-15 variation - I can name at least a dozen right off the top of my head).


Trust me on this - I hang out in the firearms industry a lot. Believe me, if H&K thought they had a chance on this, they would have tried already. They didn't, and still don't. And they haven't tried.

Legally, nobody has an exclusive right or patent to the AR-15 appearance, the "M4" product name, or any of the typical AR parts. You can get a patent for something truly unique (such as H&K's new gas system in the 416), but not on anything standard about them.

By the same extension, other industries like airsoft and paintball can make AR-style parts and guns/markers without fear of lawsuit.

This post has been edited by Thalion: 26 August 2010 - 05:57 AM

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#20 User is offline   F-3 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 07:33 PM

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on 11 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I am surprised that Tippmann has not been attacked by H&K yet. The A5 resembles an MP5 variant.


Tippmann is also under Kee Action Sports (thats what Im assuming considering they own BT and BT and Tippmann are sister companies).

Not sure where you get this. Tippmann is a subsidiary of Summit Partners, an investment firm.
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#21 User is offline   US_Army_Guy 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:22 PM

View PostF-3, on 28 August 2010 - 10:33 PM, said:

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on 11 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I am surprised that Tippmann has not been attacked by H&K yet. The A5 resembles an MP5 variant.


Tippmann is also under Kee Action Sports (thats what Im assuming considering they own BT and BT and Tippmann are sister companies).

Not sure where you get this. Tippmann is a subsidiary of Summit Partners, an investment firm.



already said that
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#22 User is offline   edtoro 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 07:12 PM

I hadnt realized that the 416 was an AR-15 gun. My bad I guess. Especially considering it was part of HK's aftermath to the XM8 program.
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#23 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 07:27 PM

recent press release on PBX3...

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Tippmann Sports just finalized an agreement with Umarex, the worldwide exclusive Heckler & Koch (H&K) licensee for paintball products. Under terms of the deal, Tippmann and its customers will be able to offer paintball accessories bearing the official names and authentic looks of popular H&K models, including the MP5 and G36. “This agreement will ensure that we continue to offer our players extremely authentic products, so that they can take the field with unparalleled confidence and pride,” said Patrick Ehren, vice president of sales and marketing for Tippmann Sports. “The greatest impact from this new partnership with H&K will be evident on our popular X7 platform, where we will continue to offer various H&K “looks,” which will allow the X7 to maintain its status as the most customizable paintball marker in the world.”


...that didnt take long...
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#24 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:36 AM

View Postedtoro, on 29 August 2010 - 09:12 PM, said:

I hadnt realized that the 416 was an AR-15 gun. My bad I guess. Especially considering it was part of HK's aftermath to the XM8 program.


It did come about following the XM8 project, but it was a whole new approach. The big target client for the XM8 (read: the US) found a massive flaw with their XM8 design, and also wanted something that required less re-training. Hence, they took the standard AR-15 and looked for ways to make it better.

The only thing truly unique about the 416 from the everyday AR-15, M4, and all the other variants is the gas piston system it uses instead of the traditional DI tube. There's other minor differences, but nothing else new function-wise.

Nearly every part is fully interchangeable with ARs.
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#25 User is offline   Psiworx 

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:54 PM

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on 11 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I am surprised that Tippmann has not been attacked by H&K yet. The A5 resembles an MP5 variant.


Tippmann is also under Kee Action Sports (thats what Im assuming considering they own BT and BT and Tippmann are sister companies).


Summit Partners is the majority owner of Tippmann Sports LLC.

KEE Action Sports is owned by Angelo, Gordon, & Co.

BT was started by Ben Tippmann (a relative of Dennis Tippmann Sr.) after leaving his job at Tippmann Pneumatics.
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#26 User is offline   town saber 

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 08:41 PM

View PostThumper113, on 10 August 2010 - 02:29 PM, said:

That's wayy to true puzuma... I just wonder who is getting paid what for this thing... I'm almost sure that kee is getting paid to do it.. no such thing as free advertising these days..



i do belive its tippmann thats having keeaction sports do it.. Bt is run by Ben tippmann, so its sort of a branch of tippmann but not really. Plus kee action sports will probably start putting out H&K US5 series markers
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#27 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:24 PM

View Posttown saber, on 03 September 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

i do belive its tippmann thats having keeaction sports do it.. Bt is run by Ben tippmann, so its sort of a branch of tippmann but not really. Plus kee action sports will probably start putting out H&K US5 series markers


:facepalm:

*ahem*

View PostPsiworx, on 02 September 2010 - 09:54 PM, said:

View Postedtoro, on 24 August 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

View PostDark Shadow Hunter, on 11 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I am surprised that Tippmann has not been attacked by H&K yet. The A5 resembles an MP5 variant.


Tippmann is also under Kee Action Sports (thats what Im assuming considering they own BT and BT and Tippmann are sister companies).


Summit Partners is the majority owner of Tippmann Sports LLC.

KEE Action Sports is owned by Angelo, Gordon, & Co.

BT was started by Ben Tippmann (a relative of Dennis Tippmann Sr.) after leaving his job at Tippmann Pneumatics.


Added a bit of bold to help you out there.

No, it is not a "branch" or any such thing of Tippmann.
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#28 User is offline   blackcelldrumr15 

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:28 PM

Thalion is correct! BT is in no way affiliated with Tippmann other than their roots, the companies themselves are not a branch or anything of the sort.
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