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Guns in Iraq Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   FIRE WOLF 1 

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Post icon  Posted 30 July 2008 - 07:58 PM

Ok so when I watch the news and see how are troops are armed in Iraq and Afghanistan it makes me cringe sometimes. Now ive saw some pretty decked out guns and weaponry but I think maybe we could do even better. I mean ive still saw solders still armed with regular M16s without even a holographic site or red dot scope. It seems that the army is trying to update weaponry. Anyway Lets discuss possible weapons systems, scopes, ammo, mags,knives, Lasers anything that you guys think might work over there. Fill welcome to discuss pros and cons. Oh and no anti war junk or bush rants please. I will report them. :P
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#2 User is offline   HYPER14 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:06 PM

whatever they got is better then what the terroists are using....A LOT better.
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#3 User is offline   Seizureman 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:10 PM

The military uses it's money... and get's the decked out stuff for everyone. It's not like they need new ideas for what to use, its the funds to get those for everyone that would be the issue. Not much to say really...

This post has been edited by Seizureman: 30 July 2008 - 08:11 PM


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#4 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:12 PM

Not every soldier really needs a holgraphic sight. I think what the soldiers are using right now are fine. The M16 does need to be replaced sometime in the near future though.
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#5 User is offline   FIRE WOLF 1 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:15 PM

View PostHYPER14, on Jul 30 2008, 10:06 PM, said:

whatever they got is better then what the terroists are using....A LOT better.

Terrorist I believe are using anything they can get there hands on(aks,rpgs,etc). and it may be a little less than what we got but sadly there still killing some of are honorable united states solders. So what guns could we send over there to help? Maybe the new Remington.

View Postghost93, on Jul 30 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

Not every soldier really needs a holgraphic sight. I think what the soldiers are using right now are fine. The M16 does need to be replaced sometime in the near future though.

there trying to replace with a new H&k M4. it is more accurate than the M16 and smaller.
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#6 User is offline   Frontier_Bill 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:15 PM

I don't think new firearms for the infantrymen are going to improve our casualty rate. The only thing that will help that is better armor on vehicles and soldiers.

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:16 PM

the M16 is a fine rifle...and theres a reason they still use it...its light, cheap, (fairly) reliable....theyve had them for what...30 sum-odd years...i think they can hold out a little longer...ide rather see them spend the money on better I.E.D protection than more firepower...

This post has been edited by Cesar: 30 July 2008 - 08:18 PM

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#8 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:19 PM

View PostCesar, on Jul 30 2008, 09:16 PM, said:

the M16 is a fine rifle...and theres a reason they still use it...its light, cheap, (fairly) reliable....theyve had them for what...30 sum-odd years...i think they can hod out a little longer...ide rather see them spend the money on better I.E.D protection than more firepower...

+1

We've won just about every single gunfight so far in Iraq, so armament can't be our biggest concern.
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#9 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:19 PM

View PostFIRE WOLF 1, on Jul 30 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

View PostHYPER14, on Jul 30 2008, 10:06 PM, said:

whatever they got is better then what the terroists are using....A LOT better.

Terrorist I believe are using anything they can get there hands on(aks,rpgs,etc). and it may be a little less than what we got but sadly there still killing some of are honorable united states solders. So what guns could we send over there to help? Maybe the new Remington.
I don't think sending new guns to our troops will really keep them from dying. Sometimes you just have to realize that in war people will die. There isn't much you can do about it sometimes.

View Postghost93, on Jul 30 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

Not every soldier really needs a holgraphic sight. I think what the soldiers are using right now are fine. The M16 does need to be replaced sometime in the near future though.

there trying to replace with a new H&k M4. it is more accurate than the M16 and smaller.
The H&K 416 is being considered to replace the M4/M16 but they haven't decided a weapon yet. They are also looking for a single/double action .45 pistol to replace the 9mm Beretta IIRC.

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#10 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:22 PM

My personal opinion:

Replace the M16 with the IMI Tavor and Beretta 9 mil with the HK .45

But I'm no expert (really I'm not) so that's pretty much all I got.

Oh I also like the Magpul Masada.
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#11 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:24 PM

View PostAshrak, on Jul 30 2008, 10:22 PM, said:

My personal opinion:

Replace the M16 with the IMI Tavor and Beretta 9 mil with the HK .45

But I'm no expert (really I'm not) so that's pretty much all I got.

Oh I also like the Magpul Masada.

Replacing the M16 would require buying a new weapon for every soldier when the one they already have is fine for the time being. It would also require retraining soldiers on their new weapons.
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#12 User is offline   FIRE WOLF 1 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:30 PM

View PostCesar, on Jul 30 2008, 10:16 PM, said:

the M16 is a fine rifle...and theres a reason they still use it...its light, cheap, (fairly) reliable....theyve had them for what...30 sum-odd years...i think they can hold out a little longer...ide rather see them spend the money on better I.E.D protection than more firepower...

Gene stoner designed an awesome gun (the M16), but even he would agree that it’s about time to upgrade to more firepower. And newer firepower plus better tactics dose decrease our casualty’s rate I mein look at the change from Vietnam to now. New tactics and improvement of weapons has decreased our casualty’s rate dramatically. Yes our solders need better body armor. Some stuff called dragon armor (skin) is in testing and use right now and it is much better than what we have now. And as far as car protection goes they are working on that too, there making one that looks like the cars the swat team uses. I think they ran it on future weapons once. And I think they should start teaching swat tactics since were in urban battles now. I believe this will also lead to using smaller caliber weapons(.45gap) to lower penetration and collateral damage. :(
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#13 User is offline   mtaylor 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:32 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't smaller caliber equal more penetration?

Take it easy on the gun topics, man. It's very possible to over do it.

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#14 User is offline   FIRE WOLF 1 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:33 PM

View Postghost93, on Jul 30 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

View PostFIRE WOLF 1, on Jul 30 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

View PostHYPER14, on Jul 30 2008, 10:06 PM, said:

whatever they got is better then what the terroists are using....A LOT better.

Terrorist I believe are using anything they can get there hands on(aks,rpgs,etc). and it may be a little less than what we got but sadly there still killing some of are honorable united states solders. So what guns could we send over there to help? Maybe the new Remington.
I don't think sending new guns to our troops will really keep them from dying. Sometimes you just have to realize that in war people will die. There isn't much you can do about it sometimes.

View Postghost93, on Jul 30 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

Not every soldier really needs a holgraphic sight. I think what the soldiers are using right now are fine. The M16 does need to be replaced sometime in the near future though.

there trying to replace with a new H&k M4. it is more accurate than the M16 and smaller.
The H&K 416 is being considered to replace the M4/M16 but they haven't decided a weapon yet. They are also looking for a single/double action .45 pistol to replace the 9mm Beretta IIRC.


the army needs a good .45. there is a new cartridge out now called .45 GAP round. It now is equivlent to the 45 long colt cartridges power
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#15 User is offline   Seizureman 

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:35 PM

View PostFIRE WOLF 1, on Jul 30 2008, 11:30 PM, said:

[Gene stoner designed an awesome gun (the M16), but even he would agree that it’s about time to upgrade to more firepower. And newer firepower plus better tactics dose decrease our casualty’s rate I mein look at the change from Vietnam to now. New tactics and improvement of weapons has decreased our casualty’s rate dramatically. Yes our solders need better body armor. Some stuff called dragon armor (skin) is in testing and use right now and it is much better than what we have now. And as far as car protection goes they are working on that too, there making one that looks like the cars the swat team uses. I think they ran it on future weapons once. And I think they should start teaching swat tactics since were in urban battles now. I believe this will also lead to using smaller caliber weapons(.45gap) to lower penetration and collateral damage. :D

1) CQB is already part of training for urban combat, I believe
2) You can't kill what you can't see... Any terrorist who disguises themself as a civilian is basically safe unless they're doing something... stupid. Then *BOOM* and the suicide vest goes off. Having a better gun doesn't do anything against that. And in any outside gun battles, without people in the way, the West has been winning. Easily.

Meh... he's got a right to post the gun topics I guess. We've got a right to not post if we want. And I'm not so bored anymore... so I think I'll do just that.

This post has been edited by Seizureman: 30 July 2008 - 08:36 PM


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