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#121 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:11 PM

well what do you expect at a scenario where the number of players is almost 1400?

not everyone is going to hold them self to a high standard like 98% of the other players..

i know i would be pissed as hell if i was shot in the back, no matter what body part was it whether its friendly or not friendly fire (incase if some of you have not seen my fps vids of final battle, i do mention something about friendly fire, and it was not nice)

i still put the blame on the people manning the base, and the people walking around staging for giving arm band tape to non legit players. if they did their job, none of this would have happened, my cards were checked saturday morning, but i dont recall it being checked sunday.. i guess after you put tape on a few hundred players you get a little tired of wasting more time checking cards to see if the numbers match up, heck i remember seeing our tape lady writing the players # on their player id card, people just did not know, hell i did not even know i was suppose to get 1 paint ticket per case, and when i found out that i need 1 card per case and that i was short 2, the people at cpx told me that i was responsible to check my packet before i left with it and that its my fault, but when i explained that this is my first scenario and i didnt know i was suppose to get 1 card per case.. simple newbie mistake on my behalf.. thank god they gave me 2 more tickets cause i was ready to punch a hole in the wall... the point im getting to here is that not everyone knows workings/rules 100% and not every player in this sport is a honest player such as myself and others.. you got a few bad apples in every sport..

I'm sorry that this happened to you guys, i really am, but its over with, and all you can do now is learn from the mistakes made, and do your best to insure that it never happens again, and if it does, know how to respond to it, dont get all crazy and start chasing the person through the woods, just remember that this is a game no matter what level of play it is, its all about having a good time. my goal was to have fun and meet new people at legends, and i did. i hope aside from that you all had a good time!

This post has been edited by Thumper113: 16 June 2010 - 07:14 PM

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#122 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:27 PM

View PostMike Phillips, on Jun 16 2010, 08:49 PM, said:

Two rules were violated-

Taken from Viper's LL3 Rules -

Player ID's and Player Badge- If you find one please turn it in at the registration counter immediately

Reinsertions: Players may only enter the game from their own hospital


Simply doing this as an exercise in debate to make a point.

the rule language is vague enough that there's gray area to work in. "Please turn it in" is not the same as "required to turn it in". so to a player of the mindset of "win at all costs", it's legal. Same goes for the rule on reinsertion, if the referees let it ride, it's legal. Even when the rules specifically state you must insert from your home team's color hospital, if a ref lets the guy do it, it's "legal" to them. Viper's rules also have the barrel tap and surrender rule as "optional" by stating "you may" and "we request" in reference to them. So it's very possible, but not likely, that this player's actions were "legal"

It's a load of post-digestion male bovine organic material, yes, but it's legal under these specific rules.

Keep in mind that, in past events, I've seen scenario teams pull a textbook 1992 freight train. No rules specifically against it, all's "fair". I've seen players pretend to be photographers to gain access to generals (Shatnerball 1, LL 1...) I've seen players dress in police uniforms, claim to be off duty cops, and then attempt to assassinate generals. I've seen players get shot while trying to BS their way through an enemy line, pulling 5-6 refs off the main firefight to allow their buddies to wipe and carry on. I even know players who will make fake prop cards, fake "sniper" cards, all of which to mess with the game mechanics. "The ref allowed it, it's legal!" A lot of these guys spend hours, DAYS, figuring workarounds to the rules, how to tweak them, how to manipulate them. Then they show up with the "must win at all costs" mentality.

Or simply put, welcome to the new tourney game Mike.

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#123 User is offline   jaldrich-techpb 

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 09:40 PM

next year I am going to register myself and my wife. Then when Leslie doesnt play I can just have her packet. That way I don't break any rules.....and hey its all fair right, I mean Im just like a spy. There are spys in real life so this shouldn't matter at all.

nah....cause that would take the fun out of....you know......playing paintball.
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#124 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 09:45 PM

View Postjaldrich-techpb, on Jun 16 2010, 11:40 PM, said:

next year I am going to register myself and my wife. Then when Leslie doesnt play I can just have her packet. That way I don't break any rules.....and hey its all fair right, I mean Im just like a spy. There are spys in real life so this shouldn't matter at all.

nah....cause that would take the fun out of....you know......playing paintball.

spies are allowed at viper games.. its all a matter of keeping an eye on players around you that you dont know.
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#125 User is offline   cockerpunk 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:50 AM

View Postjaldrich-techpb, on Jun 16 2010, 09:40 PM, said:

next year I am going to register myself and my wife. Then when Leslie doesnt play I can just have her packet. That way I don't break any rules.....and hey its all fair right, I mean Im just like a spy. There are spys in real life so this shouldn't matter at all.

nah....cause that would take the fun out of....you know......playing paintball.


bingo.

under the current rules as they were interprited by viper in this case - anyone can do anything. you can play for both teams, you can switch teams while playing, you can insert on both sides of the feild without consiquence. in fact, you can buy your own colored tagboard and cut out your own players cards, complete with numbers and formatting. so you don't even need to buy a second registration.

now, im ALL for spies and sneaky crap.

but there has to be a line. having only played 3 viper events, my interpritation of the rules was that the players card IS NOT a game prop, and using it to get tape is blatent cheating. this is to insure that while role playing, spies and such can get you tape, there is a "truth" below it all. you are in fact playing for one team or the other, not switching.



i personally love all the "welcome to senario paintball" talk. yeah, we mopped the floor with the other team BOTH days, ALL DAY. only through cheating were they even close to winning, and even with cheating they still lost. all the teams with "senario reputation" got spanked, and they knew it.

while we may not be the better "senario players" we showed ourselves to be the better paintball players. in the end, i'm ok with that. i came to play paintball.

This post has been edited by cockerpunk: 17 June 2010 - 06:54 AM

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#126 User is offline   Tenacious221 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 06:57 AM

View Postcockerpunk, on Jun 17 2010, 08:50 AM, said:

yeah, we mopped the floor with the other team BOTH days, ALL DAY.


I seem to recall a 50yard line stalemate on the field for the whole time, and a score that was down to the wire the entire time...

But you say what you want.

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#127 User is offline   cockerpunk 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:19 AM

View PostTenacious221, on Jun 17 2010, 06:57 AM, said:

View Postcockerpunk, on Jun 17 2010, 08:50 AM, said:

yeah, we mopped the floor with the other team BOTH days, ALL DAY.


I seem to recall a 50yard line stalemate on the field for the whole time, and a score that was down to the wire the entire time...

But you say what you want.

-Tenacious


we owned 2/3rds of the feild the frist day all day, and by the end were litterally spawn camping them. the only points the other team was getting was due to there cheating and doing missions behind our lines. that was our game plan from the begining, get to that choke point and hold it, keep the other team playing in the sun, keep the other team contained, do missions on the 2/3rds of the feild we hold. the second day we were on the virge of breaking out before our entire right flank was destroyed by "freindly" (meaning cheaters) fire.

make no mistake, we destroyed them. the cheating couldn't even stop the route.

This post has been edited by cockerpunk: 17 June 2010 - 07:24 AM

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#128 User is offline   LoneWolf99 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:29 AM

This definitely isn't the time or place to get into the argument of who was "cleaning the floor" with anyone - since it was a fairly close game overall. Personally, I spent at least an hour advancing behind the Blue Team HQ in the afternoon on Saturday (along the railroad side tape line) & just before things shut down for the dinner battle on Saturday, a whole lot of us Reds were just about inside the junkyard (they really need to add a few in-between bunkers up there).

Either way, a very few individuals shouldn't ruin it for the majority of players out there who came to play and play fair.
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#129 User is offline   CON*RAD 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:09 AM

How would you like to spend houndreds of dollars for an event (such as LL3) and nearly be cheated out of a hard fought victory because people on the opposite side decided to bend the rules? Personally I couldn't make it to Living legends for personal reasons, but I know I would have been ticked off if yellow ended up winning because of it.


Whats to be proud of for winning a cheated game?
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#130 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:52 AM

View PostMike Phillips, on Jun 16 2010, 08:49 PM, said:

Reinsertions: Players may only enter the game from their own hospital[/i]




I do know we had at least two guys doing this on the yellow team...since I barrel tagged one and shot the other. They were both a bit tired of getting shot by their own team, but they understood since they were wearing red arm bands walking from the yellow hospital.

Over all I enjoyed the game. I had more than a few OMG moments that will stick with me for a long time. Let the crap slide...lets play ball!
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#131 User is offline   jaldrich-techpb 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:07 AM

View PostThumper113, on Jun 16 2010, 09:45 PM, said:

spies are allowed at viper games.. its all a matter of keeping an eye on players around you that you dont know.


So this year 60 out of the 140 people that TechPB brought to the game were "Lynchmob members". To be on the Lynchmob you were required to have certain items (apex tip) and buy a certain amount of paint. 60 people dropped the extra dough just to run with mike.

Next year I hope Mike requires all 60 (if not more) Lynchmob members to purchase 2 cases of paint and 2 registrations, one for each team. That way when someone pulls this bull crap spy stuff mike can just have everyone on the Lynchmob taped up for the other team and drop 60 guys in their spawn to teamkill....*cough* I mean assassinate the other team.

Maybe after LL4 is a complete bust because people are sick of the rules being exploited people will see that accurate rules are needed.
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#132 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:34 AM

Is ruining the game for everyone next year your plan for stopping cheating?

Because I don't think it will necessarily have the results you want, and it shows really poor sportmanship and questionable character.

If memory serves, Viper has a discussion forum for his scenarios. Rather than wait and ruin his next one, doesn't it make more sense to offer feedback on what you feel needs clarification in the rules?

I guarantee if enough people tell Viper the same thing (clarification of these specific rules and why), he'll have that loophole closed come LL4.

And this is coming from a guy who's only played one Viper event; I have no affiliation with Viper nor any other producer. I'm just throwing out an idea worth trying.
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#133 User is offline   Mike Phillips 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:43 AM

I tell you guys something that most of the people will get a kick out of.

I play XBall, and I play scenario also. Now I haven't played as many scenario games as I've played XBall game, simply for the reason that XBall tournaments are simple to setup and run, scenario games take time to plan, advertise and setup.

From my personal experience, there is 100 times more "BS" on a scenario field than on an XBall field.

On the XBall field, you're locked in a 200 foot x 180 foot arena, 1 ref per 3 players, in full view of the entire crowd & video cameras. Think the last call was nonsense? Think the other team cheated? In a couple of minutes, you are playing them again. You face the same teams, on the same field, over and over and over and over and over again (sorry, xball is a bit repetitious)

I remember Dale Ford telling me a few years ago about the drama on the scenario fields. Then talking to Kevin (Harb) he just says he could absolutely care less what the final score is. Show up, talk to everyone, shoot some paint, drink some beer, go home and care less what the final score is.

It certainly is pretty hard to take them seriously, when one person can "interpret" the rules a certain way, and completely skew the points in a 1200+ person game. With that in mind, it's not even about paintball anymore. Get a lawyer to read the rule book, find the loopholes, ruin the entire game for everyone and go home with a win.

If it's all about the loopholes in the rulebook, then why do we spend so much money on paint? Why even show up with a paintball gun?

"It didn't say I couldn't dress up like a ref and pretend to be inspecting people's loaders for non-approved paint, and drop a coin into their loader when they aren't looking to jam their loaders.... so I thought it would be ok to help my team win! And we won! Hurrrrr"

Meh, I'll stick to my xball, and play 1 or 2 scenarios a year. I'm not saying one format is better than the other, but at least in XBall, if I've got a problem with the other team, I've got PLENTY of chances to solve it on the field.

This post has been edited by Mike Phillips: 17 June 2010 - 11:44 AM

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#134 User is offline   cockerpunk 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:01 PM

View PostCON*RAD, on Jun 17 2010, 09:09 AM, said:

Whats to be proud of for winning a cheated game?


a question i'd like to ask the team(s) and players that cheated.

we won despite the other team cheating, as they themselves admitted on stage after the game.

as i said, we showed ourselves to be the better paintball players, in the end, that is more important then the score. yeah, they can pull some blatent cheating and questionable interpritations of the rules, and they can tote there "senario credientals" all they want, but in the end, it was our team that won, on our skills to shoot the other guys out faster and more effectivly. im ok with that. i told the punkworks squad after the final battle, before the scores were annouced, that i didn't care about the score, we showed our stuff, and we kicked ass.


the other irony mike, is viper's paranoia over techpb cheating becuase of our lack of experience, and then one of the teams that plays viper games regularly and should know the rule book inside out, pulls this BS, only to have us "noobs" call them on it.

This post has been edited by cockerpunk: 17 June 2010 - 12:02 PM

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#135 User is offline   trustme 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:07 PM

well my first 4 posts in this topic on the first couple pages still stand that we should have just dropped it because i knew techpb would be in on it soon enough and blah blah blah (im a member on both FYI) but my arguement is with living legends.

Why does everyone forget what living legends is about? its about going back to the fun that is scenario ball, shooting in the woods, having awesome stories. A lot of you people are making it into the dramatic event that honestly doesnt appeal to me to come back. Why yes some guys cheated, one group on the yellow team happended to admit it, yes both sides cheated wether it was a card being stolen or someone wiping off a hit. BUT you know what WHO CARES, if you had a good time you had a good time, viper is a excellent scenario producer and i guarantee that next year this will be fixed.

Cockerpunk hoping that mike will require a registration for both sides for the lynch mob is very low. Why? yea them guys did it so what why go out and try and make matters worse? does it make you feel better? just go play ball have a blast like i know you did!

So to end the living legends rant everyone should try to be the best conforming and sportsmanlike player possible to keep such a good game going. Yes you will have idiots you have them everywhere you go. but if each individual try's to do things rite even if a few are doing wrong living legends and the sport of paintball will only get better. So you bet your ass next year i will be there again playing hard and as close to the rules as i possibly can.
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