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Ghillie Question how do you enforce it? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 12:11 PM

The field I play at the rule is: If a ghillied player is hit anywhere, even if a ball grazes the ghillie, or bounces off a non-ghillied part of the suit, the player is out. period" .
It confused me alot, not being introduced to the ghillie rule untill I started playing there. Is it up to the head ref or field owner to decide how the rule works? Or is it just standard that if a paintball touches a ghillied player he/she's out? I've been hit on the shoes, paintballs grazed my ghillie, barely even touching the strands of burlap, paintballs have bounced off the front of my chest and legs, which is not ghillied, and had to call myself out. Not wanting the owners to think I'm a cheater and give the team a bad-name. What are your interpretations of this rule? Would you allow a bounce off a non-ghillied section of the suit?
Also I have a problem being bonus balled, is there a big problem with that at the fields you guys ref? I feel like it's because of lack of knowledge and people shoot till they see a break or people don't hear me call/yell myself out through my mask(it does hinder my voice when talking). If a ref saw that would they be given a warning and a quick review of the ghillie rule? Thanks for your time and I'm eager to hear your answers.
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#2 User is offline   Mr. Accurate 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 12:19 PM

i'm an owner of this ghillie u talk about. if u get hit in the shoe an it bounces off then i'd say ur clean. and if u get hit in a non ghillied part of ur suit then i'd also say that your not out, but if u do get hit in ur ghillie then ur just out because its not fair to other players. heres a pic of mine.

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sr-ambusher"sniper" #21
smart parts owner#129
ion Q-bow owner
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#3 User is offline   fliegendaffe 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 01:18 PM

i saw if it don't break you're clean. how is the ref going to know it hit you? unless he/she is looking directly at you and sees it then you're S.O.L. for getting the ghillied person out
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#4 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 01:53 PM

View PostPhobeus, on Jun 16 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

The field I play at the rule is: If a ghillied player is hit anywhere, even if a ball grazes the ghillie, or bounces off a non-ghillied part of the suit, the player is out. period" .
It confused me alot, not being introduced to the ghillie rule untill I started playing there. Is it up to the head ref or field owner to decide how the rule works? Or is it just standard that if a paintball touches a ghillied player he/she's out? I've been hit on the shoes, paintballs grazed my ghillie, barely even touching the strands of burlap, paintballs have bounced off the front of my chest and legs, which is not ghillied, and had to call myself out. Not wanting the owners to think I'm a cheater and give the team a bad-name. What are your interpretations of this rule? Would you allow a bounce off a non-ghillied section of the suit?
Also I have a problem being bonus balled, is there a big problem with that at the fields you guys ref? I feel like it's because of lack of knowledge and people shoot till they see a break or people don't hear me call/yell myself out through my mask(it does hinder my voice when talking). If a ref saw that would they be given a warning and a quick review of the ghillie rule? Thanks for your time and I'm eager to hear your answers.

I would but I dont like the rule anyway because there are a lot of things people wear that get bounces and they're still in.
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#5 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 03:06 PM

I would but I dont like the rule anyway because there are a lot of things people wear that get bounces and they're still in.
[/quote]

That's so very true! Vests are an excellent example, they're legal, but they also bounce paintballs alot (from my experience). Some are even made to help bounce shots. My brother is trying to make a set of bdu's that have inch thick foam under the jacket and pants to help promote bounces and it works very well, almost none of the paint shot from a 200 rnd hopper broke at 15 yards. The only way you could take him out is the feet, gun, and head.
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#6 User is offline   The Corps 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 03:11 PM

when i play shirtless, i always get bounces :)
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#7 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 05:09 PM

View PostPhobeus, on Jun 16 2007, 03:06 PM, said:

Quote

I would but I dont like the rule anyway because there are a lot of things people wear that get bounces and they're still in.


That's so very true! Vests are an excellent example, they're legal, but they also bounce paintballs alot (from my experience). Some are even made to help bounce shots. My brother is trying to make a set of bdu's that have inch thick foam under the jacket and pants to help promote bounces and it works very well, almost none of the paint shot from a 200 rnd hopper broke at 15 yards. The only way you could take him out is the feet, gun, and head.

I shot a guy 7 confirmed times and he didnt go out because they all bounced. I took this big hill from him and shot at him as he ran away. Then once he wanted to have a long range snap battle with his long butt barrel i still got him a couple more times. I totally owned this guy, but on his harness he had a lot of bags that kept getting bounces plus his natural bounce padding. Theres another guy here who's like 300lbs and you cant get a ball to break on him anywhere. Its ridiculas.
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#8 User is offline   MOCA 

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 05:29 PM

View Postfliegendaffe, on Jun 16 2007, 01:18 PM, said:

i saw if it don't break you're clean. how is the ref going to know it hit you? unless he/she is looking directly at you and sees it then you're S.O.L. for getting the ghillied person out

I thought we were trying to tell him the right thing to do. Be honest and I think that different fields might have different rules for this so ask the head ref. Better safe then sorry. B)
-MOCA

Edit: bold word.

This post has been edited by MOCA: 16 June 2007 - 05:30 PM


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#9 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 11:04 AM

Ohh another thing, I get called a cheater alot by the people that don't know me and/or have played against me before. They assume the paintballs hit me and start yelling that I'm out. I wish I had a ghillied ref to stay near me at all times, so that s/he could make accurate calls w/out giving me away!

MOCA, I agree with the better safe than sorry, but it gets to me a little that my teammates can get away with some shots that I can't.

This post has been edited by Phobeus: 17 June 2007 - 11:05 AM

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#10 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 03:58 PM

View PostPhobeus, on Jun 17 2007, 11:04 AM, said:

Ohh another thing, I get called a cheater alot by the people that don't know me and/or have played against me before. They assume the paintballs hit me and start yelling that I'm out. I wish I had a ghillied ref to stay near me at all times, so that s/he could make accurate calls w/out giving me away!

MOCA, I agree with the better safe than sorry, but it gets to me a little that my teammates can get away with some shots that I can't.

I've had that happen with the ghillie on or off, to those kind of people it wont matter. Just ignore them and focus on getting better instead of trying to prove them wrong.
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#11 User is offline   Delta Hammer 

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 01:13 AM

yea i know the rule is kinds lame but lets just work on our game man well make ourselfs so good they wont even be able to see us lol
If you cant shoot them from affar then bring them close and ill do the dirty work.
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#12 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 09:08 AM

HELL HECK YEAH?

This post has been edited by Phobeus: 21 June 2007 - 09:09 AM

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#13 User is offline   UV Halo 

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 12:39 PM

I started playing paintball in 89 and I've been making Ghillie suits of different materials and designs for over 18 years now. Admittedly, I've never made one from burlap or layered mesh. I've seen the sport grow from mainly playing with just my friends to over 500+ folks playing big games and tournaments on ESPN.

Unfortunately there are a growing number of folks who do unsavory things to specifically increase the chance that a paintball will bounce off of them.

Now, I've no problem with people wearing things like throat protectors, Forearm (elbow) and Shin (Knee) pads. Nor do I even have a problem with hip or tailbone protectors (I know one guy who cracked his pelvis because he slipped while crossing a creek and landed on a rock). I don't care if somebody has padded their crotch, or if women wear a chest protector (or some other way of protecting their womanly parts). The purpose of this equipment is to protect the player and safety should be foremost on our minds.

Males wearing chest (and back) protectors, wool-beanies (in the summer), or heavy winter coats (like the guy I saw just two weeks ago wearing a down-type vest) I think are low-lifes. I shot a ten year old square in the back from 30ft and the ball went just as high into the air as the kid scampered off. When I commented to him about his vest giving him an unfair advantage, he said "Yeah it's cool! I'm going to wear it all the time!" So, you see what kind of people are growing into the sport here?

Now, Ghillie Suits are designed to assist one in concealing themselves. When properly used, they will make it darn near impossible in to locate the person using it. A Ghillie suit does no good for someone walking upright or even less jogging. As a matter of fact, they generally do not do any good at all if you're moving more than a couple inches a second. That being said, you must move very slowly if at all to use them. So, how does a ghillie suit fit into a 15-20 minute game where sprinters from opposite teams will run into effective range of each other in less than 15 seconds, or across an entire field in or a little over a minute? Well, if used correctly, they'll be by their starting point, and they would make a good ambush type defense for the flag station. If not used correctly, the user just becomes a bigger moving object (I've often spotted these folks from 1/3rd of a field away and have let them get close enough to me to give me a very good chance of a certain headshot). In larger format and longer games, Ghillies have perfect opportunities for use. Something that must be considered- if people are firing at the user, even through brush (vice the bush next to him) then, his ghillie is not doing what it is supposed to do. I've never spotted someone in a ghillie, ducked down behind cover, and then not be able to relocate him. Once your brain puzzles it out, you'll continue to see him until he has relocated without you seeing. Something else that must be acknowledged- The typical layered Ghillie encourages bounces. Layered ghillies also make it harder for a ref who didn't see the hits but is inspecting the player for hits to tell the difference between splatter and a hit since the strips will re-arrange themselves should the player move. In keeping with all these principles, a lot of fields/games have rulings that state that if a user is shot, no matter if it bounces, the player is out. Unfortunately, this tends to rely upon the player in having some honor. But, it's quickly remedied when a firefight between a user and the opposition breaks out. Some fields and games have ineffectively attempted to relax this rule by specifying that it only applies to the ghillied parts of a player. The problem with this is that let's say, a bounce off of the ankle. How is there going to be any proof if the ball bounced off the ghillie hanging down over his ankle, or the exposed part of his boot? It requires eyes on by the judge and simply put, in walk on games, there aren't enough judges to put one on each sniper to watch where the shots hit.

Unfortunately, Ghillies are becoming increasingly more available (for the DIYers and the stuff off the shelf) and a growing number of unsavory folks are seeing the bounce advantage and are gravitating to them for that reason, and that reason alone. How can I say they are using them for that reason alone? Because they are intentionally not using them correctly. These low-lifes are using them in short format (15-20 minute games where people are not much more than 150 yards away at the start) games and playing aggressively (charging forward or even to the tapeline). They are yelling back and forth to their buddies and their markers are not very quiet. I remember on one occasion a player charged forward to a tire stack bunker that was in full sunlight... These people are muddying the waters for the rest of the players who want to use them properly. Some fields have outright banned them because it's gotten to be such a problem.

With all this said, do what you like but, ask yourself, is it for your personal benefit or the benefit of the sport?
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