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Pneumag When money allows... Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   NinjaoftheNight79 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 05:55 PM

So a I have previously said, I am back to paintball. Hopefully back to good, my other alternative is going to put me in jail at this point, I need healthier and more legal hobbies.

Anyhow, as some of you may remember, I have been a huge fan of Pneumags for a while now. The whole concept of Pneumag or E-Pneumag is just sexy, but I am lost like no other. One day, back when I used to play, I came across a guy who actually HAD a pneumag right near me in Rock Island, Illinois. I was amazed, we balled together, I played with that thing and I fell in love. I really wish I remembered his name, or knew he was still on these forums to get in touch with him, if you are still here buddy, I shall be waiting XD. Anyhow, this is awkward, because in the past I knew just about everything I could about pneumags. Now I am a little lost and confused, and need some guidance.

First thing is first, people do electro-pneumags now? That is a dream come true. I have always loved the concept of an electronic automag, but there is a lot to hate about the e-mags themselves (talk about one big battery pack). That being said, I would be one happy panda if I could build myself an electro-pneumag. My curiosity brought me to this website. Some nice basics and some good pictures, but I really need to know a bit more.

If anyone has very detailed information on pneumags and electro-pneumags, I would truly appreciate it. I have a fairly good concept of how the standard trigger works, but I need more. I need to know (to remember) exactly how a pneumag works, and how an electro-pneumag differs from a standard one. Is it absolutely required to make the trigger frame pneumatic to convert a mag into an electro? I am not exactly even sure how electros work right off hand. I used to have very good material that showed a very clear breakdown diagram of an Ion in motion that once helped me understand electro-pneumatic markers better, but I cant seem to find that.

If anyone can point me in the right direction to some serious pneumag/electro-pneumag resources I would greatly appreciate it. Any other info is appreciated as well, I just need to go into deep research phase to plan my future mag project.

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#2 User is offline   thisissparta 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:05 PM

http://www.zdspb.com...animations.html

Excellent animations of all of the 'Mag formats, as well as everything else. :ghillie:
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#3 User is offline   NinjaoftheNight79 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:10 PM

View Postthisissparta, on Jun 10 2009, 08:05 PM, said:

http://www.zdspb.com...animations.html

Excellent animations of all of the 'Mag formats, as well as everything else. :ghillie:


You are my hero, this is just what I needed. Now if these effing .gifs would only explain how a board comes into play with all of this XD.

So, just as I thought I remembered (kids, drugs are bad), the Ion basically works in the same exact way as the Mag, but pneumatically, as opposed to the Automag which does it mechanically with springs and such. Its actually air, and then a lack there of, that keeps the bolt in place and then allows it to fire. So basically, like it or not there isn't going to be a "non-pneumatic" way of doing this mod. I will require a LPR and all the parts. Now I just gotta figure out how to get a board to control it all.

This post has been edited by NinjaoftheNight79: 10 June 2009 - 06:14 PM


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#4 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:12 PM

I'm assuming you mean how an EP mag works? Basically the same way as a Pneumag with a pneumatic ram driving the sear, but instead of a mechanical 3-way, the ram is controlled by an electronic solenoid connected to a board.

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#5 User is offline   NinjaoftheNight79 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:21 PM

View PostZ3R0, on Jun 10 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

I'm assuming you mean how an EP mag works? Basically the same way as a Pneumag with a pneumatic ram driving the sear, but instead of a mechanical 3-way, the ram is controlled by an electronic solenoid connected to a board.

-Z3R0


Its sadly interesting that I can still handle that and know what you are talking about.

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But yeah, I think I got it. So essentially I could make my mag run like an electro, but a little different in construction? A trigger pin would still hit a switch, talk to the board, and tell the board to fire my marker (in whatever software pattern is configured), and then from there it works just like a standard Pneumag in essence?

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#6 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:31 PM

great find, I'v always wanted and wondered how pneumags work. I;m on the same boat you are ninja, If I could get my hands on the parts I would Electro-pneumag my Tac one any day of the week. Talk about some major BPS rates when im in trouble.
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#7 User is offline   Z3R0 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:36 PM

View PostNinjaoftheNight79, on Jun 10 2009, 09:21 PM, said:

View PostZ3R0, on Jun 10 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

I'm assuming you mean how an EP mag works? Basically the same way as a Pneumag with a pneumatic ram driving the sear, but instead of a mechanical 3-way, the ram is controlled by an electronic solenoid connected to a board.

-Z3R0


Its sadly interesting that I can still handle that and know what you are talking about.

General Warning: Ninjaofthenight79 does not recommend the habitual use of marijuana to individuals who hope to retain their memory.

But yeah, I think I got it. So essentially I could make my mag run like an electro, but a little different in construction? A trigger pin would still hit a switch, talk to the board, and tell the board to fire my marker (in whatever software pattern is configured), and then from there it works just like a standard Pneumag in essence?


Yep, you've got it.

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#8 User is offline   NinjaoftheNight79 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:40 PM

That is what I am saying. I always loved E-mags, just never the size. Having an extra regulator on my bottomline isn't a big issue for me, it was always the idea of that massive battery pack grip that turned me off. Emag grips are also kinda hard to get a hold of lately anyhow. If SP won't let AGD use solenoids and such, then eff em, Ill make it myself.

This post has been edited by NinjaoftheNight79: 11 June 2009 - 12:50 PM


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#9 User is offline   Viherkogen 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:41 PM

Attached File  Pneumag.pdf (219.85K)
Number of downloads: 16

I found this PDF when I was thinking of making my own with a classic I have. I had a LPR and some other bits and it would only cost me $30-50 to finish, but I never bothered. That should clear up what parts are used and how. To E-Pnu the mag, you simply replace the 2-way with a selenoid like similar to an Ion (I hear the Epiphiny works better).
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#10 User is offline   NinjaoftheNight79 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:45 PM

Yeah, I'm going to have to check that stuff out. Out in town on my blackberry now, but I'll do some more research and get back.

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#11 User is offline   Viherkogen 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:53 PM

Well, the parts are conveniently found over at Airsoldier.com. Stock Ion boards/noids can be found dirt cheap on most BST sections. I found a few going for $10-15 since so many people upgrade. Specops at one point was flooded with Ion parts in the BST but it quickly subsided, doesn't mean they're gone though.
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#12 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 06:03 AM

Hmm, I wonder . . . should I try pneumagging a single trigger RT Mag . . .
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#13 User is offline   NinjaoftheNight79 

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 01:20 PM

View PostPistolWhipped, on Jun 11 2009, 08:03 AM, said:

Hmm, I wonder . . . should I try pneumagging a single trigger RT Mag . . .


I believe its possible, however with as light as the pneumag trigger pull is (and even lighter for an electro-pneumag), I just can't seem to see why you wouldn't want a double trigger. Double triggers suck when the trigger pull is too heavy, but on a pneumag/electro-pneumag it would be perfect for walking. I shot an Ego yesterday without the grips on it, and got a pretty good look at the trigger mechanism and a pretty good feel for the trigger. That trigger pull is uber light. A pin hits a very light little lever that activates the board, am I not correct? I would basically use pretty much the same kind of switch for this mod, but with a different board. Putting a good board board into this would essentially make a marker that would rip like an upgraded Ion (as Automags have been known to be fully capable of 30+ bps if you can make it shoot that fast), have the consistency of an Automag with X-valve, almost never chop thanks to the Lvl10 bolt, and all together rofl at SP and their stupidity.

So I have an idea of the layout, but not a superb idea of what parts to use. I do have one question of opinion, however. This page shows a lot of different pneumag configurations, pneumatic and electro-pneumatic alike. There are many good pictures here, but two of them set me off pretty well. The first picture is this:

Posted Image

The PPS STB LP reg (my obvious first choice for a regulator, as PPS makes wonderful products) is mounted on the left side of a bottomline adapter. While I think the front mounted LPs look cool and all, they are in an bad spot for me, as I may or may not decide to put a Q-loader on it eventually (depending, I hear they blow now, but maybe I can get my hands on old pods, or give the new ones a shot to see if they are really that bad). Were I to put a Q-loader on my mag, I would want probably mount it to the front as shown on the Q-Loader Home Page. I also do not like having the stabilizer in line with the X-Valve, as I personally think it looks ugly and consumes space in necessary places. Having an STB installed in a similar location would benefit my goals greatly.

However, I also want to make this an electro-pnuemag, requiring me to make space for a board, solenoids, and a 9volt as such:

Posted Image

This is where the problem comes in. The stock AGD grip (which I must admit I have come to like) has little room for a 9volt unless I were to attempt to mill a spot for it right in front of the lower grip screw or find an alternative placement for the 9 volt (any idea or suggestions, shoot away). I would like to use the AGD Intelliframe grips if possible, or possibly even an RPG Ultra Light Frame . Unfortunately there are no good pictures of the frame on the website anymore (if anybody has one, please post or PM me a picture of one without the grips on so I can take a look see), but the Ultra Lights are milled to remove as much metal from the inside of the frame as humanly possible without preventing it from accepting grips. This typically is not a good frame for a standard pneumag as the Ultra Light milling process removes a small bar that a 2 way would typically be connected to. However, since we would be using a board and solenoid instead of a 2 way here, that would no longer be an issue.

I would like to get pretty much all the electronic parts into the grip, along with having the STB on the bottomline ASA, and feed the air right into the bottom of the grip and up to the solenoid. The air line shouldn't be a big issue, for if there isn't quite enough room I will simply modify my grips to allow a little extra space for the LP line. My biggest concern is figuring out what board would work best for this project (as I know very little about boards, their solenoid options, firing patterns of different board softwares, and so on), and how to fit that board, a 9 volt, and the solenoid all into the compact space of an AGD Intelliframe (Ultra Light or not). If that is not possible, I will need to find a different grip frame that would work. Its a shame RPG Chimera Frames aren't in production anymore.

Addition: So I did a little toying with these images on paint, comparing the image to my marker, and moving the parts with a selector tool to see if there is any plausible way to accomplish this. The only, and I mean only thing I could come up with is get a smaller solenoid. Scenario Dreams has a great board that is way small, definitely perfect for this small size of this project, but in order to cram a battery with it and all the hosing I will need a smaller solenoid. Dye had this same problem when they were making their guns, I read somewhere. Does anybody know enough about solenoids to help me out? I gotta make sure the darned thing is small and compact enough to fit the 9volt, board, tubing, and wires in there and still be able to activate Clippard MPA-3 actuator with enough force to engage the marker. Any ideas?

This post has been edited by NinjaoftheNight79: 11 June 2009 - 04:32 PM


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#14 User is offline   WardenWolf 

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 07:47 PM

I'll be honest, with some of the better pneumatic conversions, I really don't see a point in taking it a step further and making it electronic. The trigger pull is so short and light that it may as well be electronic. I used mine at a scenario a few months ago and never felt undergunned, even going up against electros. I took on 3 guys at once and sent them all to the dead box in a hail of paint. Granted, making it electronic does give you the various ramping modes, but unless you're playing tournaments, do you really need this? Those modes are banned from everywhere I'm aware of, and I don't see this trend reversing any time soon.

For stab locations, you could try creating a tang that attaches with the valve retaining screw or otherwise attaches to the rail. That would let you use the overhang to your advantage. Same goes for the battery. I've also seen people take an E-Mag approach and still put the battery on or in the front grip.

This post has been edited by WardenWolf: 11 June 2009 - 07:56 PM


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#15 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 11:09 PM

For LPR placement, i have seen them mounted off the side of the second output on the ASA. I have seen people use a PPS stablilizer as the LPR, and run the line right to the threeway from teh front grip. I have also seen people run a MicroRock LPR off a gas thru grip, once again coming out the output hole. Some LPRs are small enough to fit in the grip, but not for Electric conversions like you want.
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