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Occupy Wall Street!...? Does anybody know what this is? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   VirtusMaster 

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 08:29 PM

First off, I searched around the forum and didn't see anyone else talking about this, so sorry if it has been brought up. Second, I know stuff about politics can get pretty heated, so lets try to keep this thread cool.

So in my Business 180 class we keep hearing about the folks rioting all over the world apparently. It seems like in America the group is pretty much going by the name of OWS, or occupy wall street. That's about all I know unfortunately. Every time I try to find out what they are really protesting about I get a list of a lot of things that don't seem to be connected, or some radical psycho-bable from someone who maybe had too much caffeine. So does anyone know what these guys are really about, and what do you think about it all?
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#2 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 09:45 PM

First off, they aren't (or shouldn't be) rioting. It's a "peaceful occupation" started by Adbuster Media Foundation to protest corporate influence over democracy... Of course they want to draw attention to the wealth issue (top 1% vs everyone else) as well as why haven't there been any legal action in the global financial crisis.

Sadly, there are a lot of people who jump on the bandwagon and are using OWS to voice their own agenda, that's were things get disjointed. "We're doing this because the top 1% of the wealth don't buy puppies for everyone and that's just wrong. We're also here because lime Jello is actually an alien mind control drug and the underwear gnomes need funding to fight the aliens."
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Posted 19 October 2011 - 10:46 PM

What a lot of the "protestors" don't get is that corporate money basically controls how governments act...

You want more jobs? The companies need incentives to hire more..

You want increased environmental controls on corporations? Or higher wages? They are forced to let people go...

Even if the government listens to what voters in general want, they "lose" and look like evil politicians...

Now I'm not saying politicians don't try to gain for themselves, they do sometimes, but they aren't necessarily bad. And corporations, by definition (as I understand it) are legally required to pursue profit. They simply can't do things that will lose them money (like environmental initiatives that won't gain them money or negate a penalty later).

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 11:34 PM

A bunch of hippies, commies, and socialists are angry because some people are better at capitalism than they are.
At least, that's how the little Occupy rally in my town looked.

As for the Wall Street ones... there are so many different factions there, the message is jumbled.

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#5 User is offline   VirtusMaster 

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:33 AM

View PostPirate, on 19 October 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

A bunch of hippies, commies, and socialists are angry because some people are better at capitalism than they are.
At least, that's how the little Occupy rally in my town looked.

As for the Wall Street ones... there are so many different factions there, the message is jumbled.



So that's the jist of what I got from it too. But of course that's not what they think they are. Is there any point at getting mad at the rich for making money? Aren't we all equally able to do it? Oh sure, be mad a Bill Gates... but the man worked his butt off to get where he is.

Besides that, attention drawing is good.... but it doesn't necessarily result in changing anything. That's up to legislation. So if they want to really accomplish anything, they really need to organize enough people to VOTE on these issues. Then again, what is the government going to do? Say ok, you guys can't be rich anymore. We passed a law that said so. Give it up. I don't see that happening. Anywho. I just feel like their rallying... peaceful or no is pointless. I'd be interested if someone on these forums sided with them though and could tell me how their arguments make sense.

What really got me about all this though were the riots in Rome. I watched them burn a police van out. Who does that? The police aren't their enemies. Peaceful demonstrations are lawful, but not if you start disrupting the peace, breaking public curfews etc.
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#6 User is offline   cor_man257 

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 06:08 AM

As it was explained in my econmics class its something as follows: After the begining of the recession in 2008 certain firms, buisnesses, and companys began to abuse the system more or less. They bundled loans (made with other peoples money) together and sold them as CDOs. I think thats what they call them. Then another company would give them a rating that accessed the probability of the loans in the bundle to get repaid. But they were paid off and everything got the highest rating. So then the company that has the CDOs would sell them with this rating to make money. CEOs from thse companys got appointed to the government positions that oversee this type of stuff. and they loosened regulations. So now companys could bet against there CDOs, wagering money that they would fail. Then it got to the point where they made more profit when they failed. When they realized this they started to sell garbage on purpose. They no longer had customers best interests in mind, lied to customers and then made money when things tanked.

I dont really understand all of it... but I think that the major point of Occupy Wall Street is to get more regulation on CDOs, and trade in general. The size of our econemy has doubled, and there has been nobody to keep it in check. The top 1% makes the majority of the wealth. And it has become more or less impossible for the rest of us to increase our purchasing power. Basically they want it regulated. A stronger middle class means a healthier economy and will lead to more prosperity.


If that seems to have a socialist slant... well thats the way it was presented to me. I dont think its a there should be no classes type of thing. I think its a everyone should be able to get there if you work for it. And right now you basically cant.
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#7 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 08:38 AM

One thing I've noticed is that the OWS protestors don't have a central goal. Ask 5 of them what they want to see done, and you'll get 5 different answers.

Some are hardcore communist, some just are there out of boredom, some are angry about one issue but don't have a counter solution to replace the one they don't like.

Should corporations be allowed to spend money to say what their views on issues are? Absolutely, first amendment and all that. Should corporations be allowed to strike deals with the government like trading campaign donations for legislation in their favor/gives them an edge in the marketplace? No.

So far, that's the only legitimate complaint I've seen from OWS. Most of them sound like they want the rich to pay for everything while they get it all free or reduced costs. That's not how the world works, and those protestors have it pretty damned good compared to the majority of the world's population. They even have it pretty good compared to the middle class America 30 years ago.

I say if they want "better" living, they need to find a way to get it themselves without the government forcibly taking it away from someone else. The job market sucks because nobody wants to hire in uncertain times, and right now nobody has any idea what a new hire will cost next year. Make a fixed tax code, stick to it. Simple is better, and everyone knows how it works then.
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Posted 20 October 2011 - 06:59 PM

View PostPirate, on 20 October 2011 - 02:34 AM, said:

A bunch of hippies, commies, and socialists are angry because some people are better at capitalism than they are.
At least, that's how the little Occupy rally in my town looked.

As for the Wall Street ones... there are so many different factions there, the message is jumbled.



BINGO.

This post has been edited by PistolWhipped: 20 October 2011 - 07:00 PM

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#9 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 02:04 PM

Had some students come by my classes today, touting a "tax on all transactions banks make to fund anti-poverty, etc. measures - that WON'T be passed to the consumer".

What balogne.

EVERY tax is passed to the consumer.
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#10 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 03:05 PM

View Postcdrinkh20, on 28 October 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:

EVERY tax is passed to the consumer.


This.
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#11 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 12:40 AM

"Waaaaaaah. The OWS protestors have not created a list convenient talking-points that the media will overplay until they become meaningless platitudes. Waaaaaah." The lack of talking-points and centralized leadership is what's keeping this movement from becoming astro-turfed and co-oped by politicians and business like the Tea-Party.

Some articles that might change the way you look at OWS:

http://www.salon.com...28/protests_21/

Quote

Does anyone really not know what the basic message is of this protest: that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else?



http://www.businessi...ut-2011-10?op=1


http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=14817561


http://www.addicting...on-wall-street/


http://www.theatlant...-street/246963/
http://blogs.wsj.com...veys-protester/
^Relevant unless you suddenly believe gov't shouldn't reflect the will of the people.


http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-15246205
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Think about it: there have always been rich and poor people in America, so if this is about jealousy, why the protests now? The idea that masses of people suddenly discovered a deep-seated animus/envy toward the rich – after keeping it strategically hidden for decades – is crazy.

Where was all that class hatred in the Reagan years, when openly dumping on the poor became fashionable? Where was it in the last two decades, when unions disappeared and CEO pay relative to median incomes started to triple and quadruple?

The answer is, it was never there. If anything, just the opposite has been true. Americans for the most part love the rich, even the obnoxious rich. And in recent years, the harder things got, the more we've obsessed over the wealth dream. As unemployment skyrocketed, people tuned in in droves to gawk at Evrémonde-heiresses like Paris Hilton, or watch bullies like Donald Trump fire people on TV.

Moreover, the worse the economy got, the more being a millionaire or a billionaire somehow became a qualification for high office, as people flocked to voting booths to support politicians with names like Bloomberg and Rockefeller and Corzine, names that to voters symbolized success and expertise at a time when few people seemed to have answers. At last count, there were 245 millionaires in congress, including 66 in the Senate.

And we hate the rich? Come on. Success is the national religion, and almost everyone is a believer. Americans love winners. But that's just the problem. These guys on Wall Street are not winning – they're cheating. And as much as we love the self-made success story, we hate the cheater that much more.


Don't be this guy:
‎"I'm upside-down in my mortgage and pay $750/month for health insurance," but I'm not going to condemn the system that creates that scenario . . . I'm just going to work harder so I don't lose my home as the value is driven down by artificial market manipulation.

I'm just going to work harder so that the insurance companies will !%# harder when they rape me."

Really guys, you subscribed to this easily enough. Now that Americans are getting mad about the corruption and malfeasance of our economic system, it's no longer something that should be fought?



In any case, they've found a cure for lesbianism: http://m.dailymail.c...ticleID=2053787 So I don't see why even the staunchest GOP corporatists among you aren't behind this! :P

And just for fun:





http://www.thedailys...n-in-the-u-s-a-

This post has been edited by MaDuce: 29 October 2011 - 01:05 AM

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#12 User is offline   voodoo 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:31 AM

View Postcor_man257, on 20 October 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

As it was explained in my econmics class its something as follows: After the begining of the recession in 2008 certain firms, buisnesses, and companys began to abuse the system more or less. They bundled loans (made with other peoples money) together and sold them as CDOs. I think thats what they call them. Then another company would give them a rating that accessed the probability of the loans in the bundle to get repaid. But they were paid off and everything got the highest rating. So then the company that has the CDOs would sell them with this rating to make money. CEOs from thse companys got appointed to the government positions that oversee this type of stuff. and they loosened regulations. So now companys could bet against there CDOs, wagering money that they would fail. Then it got to the point where they made more profit when they failed. When they realized this they started to sell garbage on purpose. They no longer had customers best interests in mind, lied to customers and then made money when things tanked.

I dont really understand all of it... but I think that the major point of Occupy Wall Street is to get more regulation on CDOs, and trade in general. The size of our econemy has doubled, and there has been nobody to keep it in check. The top 1% makes the majority of the wealth. And it has become more or less impossible for the rest of us to increase our purchasing power. Basically they want it regulated. A stronger middle class means a healthier economy and will lead to more prosperity.


If that seems to have a socialist slant... well thats the way it was presented to me. I dont think its a there should be no classes type of thing. I think its a everyone should be able to get there if you work for it. And right now you basically cant.



A quite good synopsis of the situation and a fundamental tenet.
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#13 User is offline   Bone37 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:42 PM

:evil: You know what might work better... Occupy Pennsylvania ave.
OR maybe Occupy THE VOTING BOOTH! OR Occupy THE SCHOOL ROOM! :facepalm:
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#14 User is offline   Pirate 

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:27 AM

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 06:18 AM

Its a bunch of spoiled brats who were told all their life that they are special little snow flakes and they got trouphies for just showing up to games instead of learning that there are winners and losers and were never taught any personal responsability in life. When they got out in the real world it punched them straight in the face and they never saw it coming. I've seen protesters whining on the news that they had $15000 in school loan debt. You had no problem taking the money, you should have to pay it back. Life is hard. Get a helmet. Better yet, occupy a shower. Get a job (yes they are out there). You may just have to start out at the bottom and work your way up like the rest of us. You aren't entitled to anything. Stop trying to shove socialism down our throats. We don't want it and its failed everywhere it has been tried. Suck it up and do something besides spreading filth and lies. You vermin are no were near the 99%. You are less than .0001%. I blame the public school system for creating this. They have been teaching our children this socialist crap for years and this is the result.

You younger members, learn from this. Look at the differences between people who work and earn their living, and people who want everything given to them because of some sense of entitlement. For a bunch of commies, their appears to be an aweful lot of smart and I phones and computers in that group. You think everyone has those in a commie/socialist system? Negative. Compare these hippie scum to the young men and women serving in our military. Total oppposites. One side wants to serve and protect and sacrofice, and the other wants to tear down and destroy.

Seariously, I have seen young people on line, and it may have even been here, claim to be socialist and even communist in their beliefs. If you are, you don't have a clue what you are talking about or what you want. Open your eyes and look around. Its not a republican vs. democrat thing, they are both so screwed up they will never be of any use and are only in it for themselves. America is not the source of everything bad in the world. We used to be (and still are) a beacon of hope and good in the world. However we need to do some serious house cleaning for that to remain true. I fear we are quickly falling into the abyss and we will loose everything is things continue on their current path.

Drove through Down town Charlotte last night. The "Occupy Charlotte" movement has all of 12 people in it. What a joke.

Anyway, needed to get that off my chest. You younger guys are the future of my country. Please treat her right.
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