Special Ops Paintball: Getting laughed at for having a mil-sim gun - Special Ops Paintball

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Getting laughed at for having a mil-sim gun this ever happen to you guys Rate Topic: -----

#346 User is offline   Mitch Force 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:38 PM

B-b-but... You could rifle stock someone with it!

:)
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#347 User is offline   AaronC 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:58 PM

View PostMitch Force, on Oct 29 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

B-b-but... You could rifle stock someone with it!

:)


They are built so poorly that it would probably shatter after the first hit but you could probably use the shards to poke somebody in the eye.
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#348 User is offline   Zzaque 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:07 PM

I get made fun of all the time no matter what I do so I guess I just never noticed.

I have never made fun of someone else's gun though

Oh wait! I take that back. I made fun of my friends gun when he put a 24" barrel on it and could barely walk through the woods because of it. It was funny saying things to make him "try" to turn around and get stuck. Reminded me of the 3 Stooges.
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#349 User is offline   Xakk 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 08:04 PM

Ive seen it happen before. I don't agree with it. To each his own style of play. I know why woodsballers are typically made fun of though. Speedball guys think that adding scopes and stocks and fake mags - etc. is stupid. I think some of it is cool, but not practical. I think that woodsball guys get bashed about their guns because (not trying to start a war) speedball guns(lighter, faster, accurate) are more universally applicable to situations compared to woodsball guns. For example, making an A-5 look like a m-16(or whatever) doesnt help you on the field. Adding a red dot sight might help you on the woodsball field, but speedball(as the name entails) is played really fast and makes the sight fairly useless. It also doesnt help that most younger players play with woodsball type guns. Younger kids see the modded out woodsball guns to be the best even though they have nothing to compare it with. There for, anyone walking on the field with a scope or a stock on their gun is looked upon as a noob who hasnt been playing long. Speedballers know they have an advantage of shooting ropes in comparison to you. They see your A-5 as a crappy gun, with crap piled on top of it to make it heavy. My best advice is that if you dont want someone to make fun of your gun, take all of the excess stuff off of it when you play speedball(stocks, scopes, mags). Speedballers will give you props for doing so. But when you go back to playing in the woods - light them up like a Christmas tree with all of your mods on the gun. :) Ive been in that situation before.
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#350 User is offline   DmosleyBoy 

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

Where i live speedballers play woodsball because there is just way more woodball fields and only 1 field with a speedball field. I personaly love it when speedballers play with us, they still wear their bright color "outfits"(inside joke) and are so easy to see. The dense woods makes a 15 bps gun on par with a 30 bps gun so some of these guys with the $2500 markers dont seem to have any edge even over a reg 8 bps 98c from what ive seen. But personaly i wouldnt make fun of anyone. Were all there to have fun. Also i think some speedballers are upset that their sport seems to be less popular than it was back when they were on espn. While woodsball/scenario seems to be getting bigger and more popular by the day. For example a DYE sponsored Pro came to a field just outside Jacksonville Florida for a "how to" session and there was only about 20 people that showed up. The same day at one of the woodsball fields there were about 100 people with nothing special happening. I think that has something to do with it maybe, but i could be wrong. Also some of the renters could just be jealous that you have a more expensive gun they cant afford. But who knows, just let it go, nothing good will come from it if you let it bother you. The ref issue tho is absurd, if thats true, its only a matter of time before a field like that gets a bad rep and shuts down. In north Florida that has happened to ALOT of speedball fields.
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#351 User is offline   Shipwreck! 

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:28 PM

Yes and no.

I've never really gotten any crap on the paintball field from anyone about my gun.

That said, the first three years that I was paintballing I wasn't. I was stuck on a ship in the Navy. I only got to play once a year when I got to go home on leave. In the meantime I did have my gun, and I'd order parts for it off of this website actually, for the most part. And every once in a while paintballing would come up in discussion with other sailors. The problem was that while I was applying everything I knew from my military training within practicality to my gun to optimize its function, these guys all seemed to have already built up a lot of misconceptions about paintball from their civilian days, and didn't understand what we knew as sailors could apply.

Haha. It goes like this. Here's just a little parallel to demonstrate the point. In bootcamp, military weapons instructors tend to prefer to teach recruits who have no prior experience with weapons. Reason being from a professional military perspective, civilians have no fing clue what the f they're doing with firearms. There are no mandatory training programs for civilians to own guns. So generally those who want to just buy guns, MAYBE get a few safety pointers, and then do whatever the f they want. Maybe they're dad or somebody introduces them to firearms and imparts whatever wisdom they have about how to use them without accidentally shooting yourself, or others. Maybe that guy has any clue what he's talking about, maybe not. At the end of the day when you've got a bunch of recruits on the firing line, all of the ones with prior experience tend to have already learned a whole lot of really bad habits, and to make that matter worse, also have the arrogance of thinking they know what they're doing with weapons such that they're less likely to listen when they are told that they're fing up. While those with no prior experience, haven't developed any habits at all yet, good or bad. They are blank slates to work with. They can be trained from day one the correct, professional, military way of handling weapons. When they do make mistakes, they at least know that they don't know what they're doing so when you correct them, the snap to and listen. While those with prior experience have to unlearn everything they think they know, before they can even start all over, and they're going to be resistant to it because they're "tough guys" that "know what they're doing".

So that's basically the concept in play in my paintball experience. I was taking everything I knew about real world weapons and combat, analyzing it and applying what could be applied to paintball. For example a lot of marksmanship training has to do with just learning the right way to hold a weapon as steady as possible so that you can hit a target 300 meters away, because at that range any imperceptible movement or deviation of angle will throw a shot wide enough to miss.
That CAN'T be applied to paintball. You're shooting at targets that are 100 feet and change at the most, all of those tiny little jitters you have to control with a rifle because they'll cause you to miss at long rifle ranges... wont make any difference at close paintball ranges! So no point trying to use that knowledge in paintball, it doesn't matter, it's non-applicable.
Alternatively: a lot of your advanced team maneuvering training in the real world military, is about how to maneuver as a team and engage an enemy at any range, without shooting each other, so that's co-ordinating movements, muzzle control (making sure your weapon isn't pointed at anyone it shouldn't be, ie, other members of your team, dropping your barrel when someone crosses your path, not having your weapon pointing one direction and looking a different direction not paying attention to what your weapons pointing at etc). That sort of thing is HIGHLY applicable in paintball because you are moving in close proximity with other paintball team members, and if you're letting your gun point at them or not paying attention, running in front of them when they're shooting, not paying attention and dropping your barrel if they f up and run in front of you while you're shooting (which they WILL because they're civilians who don't have this training or good situational awareness etc. etc.). If you take that real world military training and apply it in paintball a lot of friendly fire accidents won't happen that would have otherwise.

So, all that said, I built my gun on real world concepts that WORK. There's a stock because that CAN be advantageous even in paintball, but it's a folding stock so you can get it out of your way when it's not advantageous which, in paintball, is OFTEN. There's a sight because even though paintballs aren't pinpoint accurate (real world firearms aren't either for the record bullets fire on the same parabolic arc all other projectiles do, theirs is just longer than a paintballs!), aiming, no matter how inaccurate the gun is, is ALWAYS better than not aiming. It was black because black is the one color that can blend in best and be least eye catching/noticeable/contrasting in all environments (except arctic/snow) while the neon reds greens, purples, and yellows of speedball guns will be ridiculously revealing in almost any paintball field and being seen is the first step toward being shot so... obviously poorly thought out marker design right?

Point of all that is, that there are a LOT of ridiculous nonsensical misconceptions in paintball, you won't find in any other projectile launched device associated community. And they are all wrong.
So one of the biggest and worst misconceptions in paintball is that there's not point to aiming a paintball gun just because every single paintball isn't going to hit EXACTLY where the sight says.
That's fing stupid.
The fact of the matter is that if you invest the effort to aim even with a paintball gun, more of the shots you fire are going to hit than miss. A lot more. There will always still be misses. But there will be far far far less of them if you use a sight of some kind, and that is WORTH it.

I mean, aiming is better than not aiming. How simple, and obvious is that? Just from a purely logical perspective without the filter of paintball experience or military training, even.

Anyway, all of these guys on my ship who were into paintball as civilians had already learned that ridiculous paintball misconception (the same way recruits still believe in a lot of dumb things they learned handling weapons as civilians), and they never thought to test it themselves, or reevaluate it at all, they just heard paintballers saying it a long time ago took to heart based on nothing and clung to it for ever after. So while they all know that weapons aren't 1000000% accurate but you still ALWAYS aim them, they're still telling me, "Don't bother aiming a paintball gun, there's no point aiming something that's not 10000000% accurate, that sight you got for your gun is stupid!"
Ouy. Dummies.

So I always argued back against them with the same logical points I've made in this post, and they never listened. That said, I was always just formulating theories based on logic and never got to build data to back those theories up because I only got to play one game a year if I was lucky and that's not enough to start building a trend that supports your theory that aiming in paintball works.
Of course they were no better off, they were just parroting things they'd heard and decided to believe without even having a basis in logic.
But that apparently didn't bother them at all, while not having data to back up my logical theories bothers me greatly, because I... you know... think and stuff. So by time I finally got out of the Navy, the first paintball game I played, I had been listening to these arguments against my guns sight for so long I started to think, "Maybe they're right." and I turned off my sight and played without it that whole day.
But then later I realized that since I'm out now and can play every weekend if I want! And did for that first year! Now I can finally gather data! So I started alternating between playing with and without my sight. I found that EVERY time I used it I got more eliminations and used less paint. I was right all along.

Anyway, in that I have had people talk crap about my gun.

How I deal with that is that I f***ing know my sh*t!

My gun isn't actually what I would consider milsim. It doesn't simulate any real gun. It's just more military/real gun looking, because it is black and has a sight and stock etc etc. But at the end of the day, NOTHING is on my gun just for looks. Every single part has a function and is there for a reason and makes my gun work better or helps me work better with my gun (ie sight doesn't improve markers accuracy, it improves MY accuracy WITH marker, while flatline barrel does improve marker accuracy by flattening the parabolic arc out a bit thus less variation between the hop up and drop off over a longer distance, also increases performance in terms of range for whatever that's worth). So people can talk all they want, but at the end of the day, I know my marker is built essentially the best way a marker CAN be! And the design pays off!

For the record I take issue with a lot of trends in paintball design both in speedball and in MILSIM communities.
For example the bright colors of
SPEEDBALL
guns are ridiculous, serve no function and make people stand out as targets. It's just paintball so if it's worth it to you to have a "cool" looking gun that's going to get you eliminated go for it, it's your game play it how you want. But don't pretend your gun is the epitome of function and make fun of other peoples when ultimately it's designed to look good and not work good.
Also the speedball aversion to aiming and the sights that make it easier/faster/possibly makes no sense, and a lot of marker designs flatout preclude it with center feed hoppers that block the line of sight completely. So again bad design.

but then again
MILSIM
has it's drawbacks too.
Mainly that players are trying to simulate real guns more so than make paintball guns that work.
So many mods/parts/etc. in MILSIM actually do serve no purpose and I take as much issue with those.
For example when we see a 20lb M60 replica paintball gun that doesn't shoot any further than a stock marker, isn't any more accurate than stock, isn't any faster shooting than stock etc. etc. AND is impossible to maneuver given it's massive weight, length, and overall size, that's just as ridiculous and ultimately, in game, useless as those bright blue paintball guns. Actually a little more so maybe, at least the speed ball guns can still maneuver while giving your position away from across the field. Then again if the M60 is black at least it wont give you away halfway across the field while it's being impossible to maneuver effectively, so I guess it's a toss up.
Point is, it's all bad to me, and there's not nearly enough manufacturers out there designing purely for function, and not enough players out there building purely for function. Blah.

Everyone at my local field is usually pretty cool about my gun though. They say it's cool even if they're into speedball. Every once in a while someone will suggest that it's not exactly functional with that stock/sight/whatever, in which case i simply explain:
"Actually stocks do serve a purpose in paintball as, if you do aim (using a sight), locking your mask to the stock can make it much easier to move while maintaining your aimpoint, even at a solid jog. While it becomes nearly impossible to maintain that aimpoint on the move without a stock, everything's just all over the place."
"Oh actually using the sight, once you get the hang of it, drastically increases the player's accuracy."

Oh, but at the local paintball shop, the whole staff is a bunch of speedball snobs. At least they don't say anything because they're not going to drive away business, but you can tell they're not impressed. And every once in a while I'll overhear them explaining things to someone getting their first gun, and they'll be saying things like "Oh, the stocks on those milsim guns don't serve any purpose, it's just for looks." so they of course adhere to the usual paintball misconceptions, I want to start debating with them but at least they say "It's up to you and what you like." so they're not actually just crapping on milsim. But still you can tell it's not their cup of tea haha!

Oh, also, important note: My local field is outlaw, it used to be more woodsy but people are building it to be more speedball. In any case outlaw has always felt more legit to me. You go to speedball course and your neck deep in all kinds of twelve year olds that are going to shoot you in the back of your head point blank when they're trying to hit someone on the other team becasue they're not paying attention, and speedball douchesnobs that are gonna be crapping on anyone everyone they deem "noob" Which will include but not be limited to the twelve year olds, most if not all girls and women, anyone not plastered head to toe in Dye gear like Garth was in Reebok gear in Wayne's World, anyone not a speedball pro poser.

Also to the OP, if someone lit me up like that I crush their face with my knuckles. And I'd walk for it because paintball game or not that's borderline if not actually assault. At LEAST I would light them up right back next game and not stop till I ran out paintballs.
Sorry you had to deal with that, it's unacceptable!
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#352 User is offline   rampant_sanity 

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:39 PM

i used to do 8" groups with my sighted in SIM-4.

at 120'...


sights and stocks do have much better results. no ropes required.
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