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So I have a new project Mini Orracle Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:52 PM

During the OSC pump only event in Nevada I won a non drilled Mini Orracle body, back block, barrel, vert ASA front block, trigger frame and trigger with sear and spring. All in gloss black

A very nice start to a custom built pump!

But...never having bought or worked on cockers in any way i am kinda scratchin my head on this one.

I know I need internals...but which ones would be best? It was mentioned to me that CCM IVG does not require the rod to be removed for velocity adjustment....doea any other offer this?

This will be a pump only gun. I know proper springing is needed to get a super soft pum and sound signature with out valve bounce...but I have no idea what to look for.
Will I be able to accomplish this with stock internals? Found a set on ebay...good idea or not?

Bolts...good God the must be a couple thousand bolt options out there! Arrrg!

I am seriously considering the CCM 86º frame/2K mini pump kit/auto trigger kit for this thing, but that will take longer for me to aquire the funding for.

All I know right now...I have a pile of pretty parts and a desire to make a fine gun I will be happy with.

*edit
Sitting here surfing...looks like Check-It internals and bolt with CCM hard parts...

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 21 April 2011 - 01:28 PM

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#2 User is offline   aqua_scummm 

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:44 PM

A lot of them you unscrew the cocking rod, pull it back, it locks to the velocity adjuster, turn it, push the cocking rod back and screw it back into the hammer, and re chrono. Some don't even require you to unscrew the cocking rod... don't know about the CCM. The standard autococker ones had the cocking rod running through the hex hole for adjustment, so you unscrewed the rod, inserted an allen key where it was, turned, and replaced the rod.

Springing depends on your pressure... if you're getting valve bounce, you can increase your operating pressure, put a stiffer valve spring in, or a softer main spring. It takes tinkering around, you'll hear valve bounce though. It's not a sharp pop, it's like a super short quack. It will also depend on the weight of your hammer... the old brass hammers were nice and heavy, so you could use a softer hammer spring for a softer pump stroke, but you're more prone to valve bounce

Cockers/Snipers are the ultimate tinkering gun, but that also means finding the right setup can be a pain.

This post has been edited by aqua_scummm: 21 April 2011 - 01:46 PM

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#3 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:49 PM

Pain....no want.

Such pretty parts to just sit there. Time to start making phone calls to the builders on the team I think.
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#4 User is offline   aqua_scummm 

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:53 PM

Eh, just buy the parts, assemble it with the two mediumest springs, set the reg to about 350 psi, and chrono...

I guess its really only a pain when you decide friday night you want your new gun running for saturday's game. If you spread it out, get it assembled one night, chrono it and check efficiency the next, adjust on the third night, and continue on in that fashion it's not bad. They're just a pain when there's too many variables and you're trying to sort it all out at once.
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#5 User is offline   Chaos Fiend 

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 12:21 PM

Aqua's pretty much spot on. Really for you I wouldn't worry too much about trying to get it to be perfect in one day. Get it assembled and chronoed one day and play with it. If you like how it shoots, then don't worry too much bout the burp.

BTW I've been working on an mini orracle for a while. Here's where I'm at so far.
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Stylistically, the only thing I personally feel needs to be on an orracle is a 15* asa. Sadly, I couldn't find any pump kits like that. Instead I found a guy that made the frontblock you see on mine. Besides that, I'd go with whatever you think looks best as most parts, besides pump kits, all perform well. It comes down to preference. If you like to get new parts. Check Shocktech, Carter Machine, CCM, and I think Belsales might still be round. Oh, and I&I sports has a lot of new old stock parts from companies that went under.
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#6 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 06:20 PM

View PostKrazy8, on 21 April 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

During the OSC pump only event in Nevada I won a non drilled Mini Orracle body, back block, barrel, vert ASA front block, trigger frame and trigger with sear and spring. All in gloss black

Congrats

A very nice start to a custom built pump!

But...never having bought or worked on cockers in any way i am kinda scratchin my head on this one.

Happens to us all at first

I know I need internals...but which ones would be best? It was mentioned to me that CCM IVG does not require the rod to be removed for velocity adjustment....doea any other offer this?

This will be a pump only gun. I know proper springing is needed to get a super soft pum and sound signature with out valve bounce...but I have no idea what to look for.
Will I be able to accomplish this with stock internals? Found a set on ebay...good idea or not?


If you want uber quiet you want an AKA tornado valve, reduces operating pressure to ~200psi. Outside of that, a valve is a valve. Most perform about the same as the others. No need to splurge. Only a few IVGs can be accessed without removing the rod, CCM is one of them, i forget the other. CCM makes great parts, can't go wrong with them.


If you want a soft easy pump stroke you want a weak hammer spring. Now depending on how you intend to run it will change your sprining. If you intend to use 12ies you need to spring completely differntly from running with a regulator. With a reg and a normal valve you would run in the 300-350 psi range. WIth 12ies you are in the 800psi range. If you use the stock springs for using a regulator and throw a 12 gram changer on there and remove the reg, your balls will go nowhere. The hammer spring will be too weak to open the valve that is being shut by 800 psi. I'd recomend a reg. And i'd recomend sweet spotting it and then only using the IVG to adjust velocity after.

Basically set the IVG in the middle range, 2-3 turns in. Then lower the reg til it is outputting notihng. Then slowly raise the reg pressure, fire a few shots to balance the reg and chrono. Your velocity should keep going up. Repeat until you notice your velocity start to drop. That means you just passed your sweet spot. Turn the reg back that 1/4 turn to where it was before and don't touch it again. This is your most effecient setting. Use the IVG to adjust velocity from then on. Now it isn';t your quietest setting, that would require sprining for low pressure and putting in a tornado valve. But this setting will give you the most shots per tank.


Bolts...good God the must be a couple thousand bolt options out there! Arrrg!

Bolts only matter really if you are using an electro and you want to save wieght so the backblocks movement doesn't throw off your aim. With a pump it is kinda a null upgrade since you are controlling how hard you pump. Just get any delrin bolt and you are fine. IF you can find a JAM Anti chop bolt, those are pisser. But hard to come by nowadays.

I am seriously considering the CCM 86║ frame/2K mini pump kit/auto trigger kit for this thing, but that will take longer for me to aquire the funding for.

Love my 86* frame. And the CCM kits are top notch. But very very costly

All I know right now...I have a pile of pretty parts and a desire to make a fine gun I will be happy with.

*edit
Sitting here surfing...looks like Check-It internals and bolt with CCM hard parts...

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