Special Ops Paintball: Velocity, soft ears, and more! - Special Ops Paintball

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Velocity, soft ears, and more!

#1 User is offline   C9H13NO3 

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 04:29 PM

This weekend our team took 3rd in the Velocity Summer Series. Velocity keeps a 285 fps cap on all walkon games, and last year did for the tournaments also. This year, someone said something about modified NPPL rules and 300fps, so they upped the cap for the tourney to 300. I was shot from about 15 yards in the soft ear of my Empire Event. I know the gun wasn't hot because everyone chronos before each match. It did tear right through the soft ear and entered my ear canal though, and I have slight hearing loss, ringing, a feeling of water in the ear, and slight pain. I'm sure it will heal itself, at least mostly, and I may experience some very slight permanent hearing loss, but I'm not extremely worried about it. Just something to consider if you plan on using soft ears on your goggle system. I will continue to use them, since it's pretty rare to have a hit like that.

Another thing to consider is that this happened at or below 300fps. Your safety gear is rated at 300fps, and if you or someone else shoots hot, you may be compromising the integrity of your gear. Play safe :)
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#2 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:28 AM

how soft are those soft ears?
I know I have hard ears on my proto, although Im wondering how flexible those ears are. obviously if it can tear through the soft ears, then maybe medium density ears are in order?
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#3 User is offline   C9H13NO3 

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:00 PM

View PostEskimo, on Jun 22 2009, 08:28 AM, said:

how soft are those soft ears?
I know I have hard ears on my proto, although Im wondering how flexible those ears are. obviously if it can tear through the soft ears, then maybe medium density ears are in order?


It's just the stock soft ears that come with events. Thin piece of foam. Today my ear still hurts a little and feels waterlogged, but my hearing is back and the ringing is gone.
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#4 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:17 PM

View PostC9H13NO3, on Jun 22 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

View PostEskimo, on Jun 22 2009, 08:28 AM, said:

how soft are those soft ears?
I know I have hard ears on my proto, although Im wondering how flexible those ears are. obviously if it can tear through the soft ears, then maybe medium density ears are in order?


It's just the stock soft ears that come with events. Thin piece of foam. Today my ear still hurts a little and feels waterlogged, but my hearing is back and the ringing is gone.

Go see your doctor. Chances are he/she will flush the ear canal and check for damage. It'll give you some piece of mind that nothing is stuck in there at least.
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#5 Guest_Cesar_*

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 01:34 PM

ive heard of this happening before.......which is why when i made a pair of soft ears for my flexes, i made them almost twice as thick as the traditional ears.....


i would like to see some soft ears with a plastic insert over the ear canal...just to ensure that something like this doesnt happen anymore.....
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#6 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 03:29 PM

This illustrates the problem I have with this trend of "shrinking" goggle systems.

I'm all for comfort and a low profile, but not at the sacrifice of less coverage. My Profilers cover my ears with a soft, "bounceable" rubber, while keeping my lower jaw completely covered.
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#7 User is offline   EthanB08 

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:42 PM

You know what I dont get about this... your allowed to wear all these soft and rubber made bounce enhancing masks, but your not allowed to wear clothing that is soft cushiony and bounce enhancing... it just doesnt make sence to me... btw I wear a Save Phace mask sturdy hard plastic FTW... and its multicam, so it matches my attire...hehe
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#8 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:24 AM

View PostEthanB08, on Jun 25 2009, 02:42 AM, said:

You know what I dont get about this... your allowed to wear all these soft and rubber made bounce enhancing masks, but your not allowed to wear clothing that is soft cushiony and bounce enhancing... it just doesnt make sence to me... btw I wear a Save Phace mask sturdy hard plastic FTW... and its multicam, so it matches my attire...hehe

People wear bounce enhancing clothes every day they play. From tourney kids who wear shirts 3 sizes to big, to promote bounce. To the woodballers in BDUs, god i've see more bounces off BDUs then ANY tourney gear ever. Sure the guys in BDUs aren't intentionally trying to get bounces, but you'd better believe they are getting them.

This post has been edited by Legato: 25 June 2009 - 12:24 AM

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#9 User is offline   EthanB08 

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 04:09 PM

View PostLegato, on Jun 25 2009, 01:24 AM, said:

People wear bounce enhancing clothes every day they play. From tourney kids who wear shirts 3 sizes to big, to promote bounce. To the woodballers in BDUs, god i've see more bounces off BDUs then ANY tourney gear ever. Sure the guys in BDUs aren't intentionally trying to get bounces, but you'd better believe they are getting them.[/color]


Please do share a ratio of BDU bounces to tourney gear bouncesÖ please do, as I would like to know that you keep a record of this and are not just over exaggerating to prove a point. See the last game I played there was one player who was either very very lucky or was just flat out cheating, he was wearing tourney gear, he got 3 bounces in one game, while 3 of the other players playing were wearing BDUs and 2 of which were eliminated that same game, no bounces for themÖ so my unofficial and generally inaccurate ratio is 3:0 for bounces. 3 bounces for the tourney gear, and 0 bounces for the BDUs. However this is unofficial and inaccurate, as I havenít factored the amount of shots each player took, type of paint, velocity, and what not. Also as for your observations how do I know you donít only play woods ball with people in BDUís, or perhaps you shoot way more balls at each target in tourney ball therefore making bounces less noticeable because at least one ball hit the target. With all due respect please note that there are so many factors for one to say accurately concern the amounts of bounces on BDUs and tourney Jerseys.

Anyways in my original point I was noting that I find it funny that you are not allowed to wear bounce enhancing cloths (according to most paintball rules.) but they do not restrict the wearing of a mask that enhances bounces with flexible rubber and soft ears and what not.

AMERICAN PAINTBALL LEAGUE 2003 STANDARD RULE BOOK FOR TOURNAMENT PAINTBALL said:

C. Clothing must be sized to fit the player. A player may not wear oversized, draping and/or excessively baggyclothing. Clothing may not be made of overly absorbent cloth or highly padded cloth, nor of water repellant cloth/material that allows a paint mark to be wiped away quickly and cleanly. Ghillie-type material, which makespaint marks difficult to locate and identify quickly, may not be worn or attached to the playerís equipment or goggles. PENALTY: ELIMINATION.


GENERAL SCENARIO RULES OF PLAY said:

PROHIBITED EQUIPMENT:
Heavy clothing which is designed to promote bounces;


As you can see the 2 quotes are parts of online rule books for scenario paintball and tournament paintball, neither of which are in support of bounce enhancing clothing, people however manage to wear BDUs and tourney jerseys which donít necessarily enhance bouncing on purpose but it has something to do with the way the player is using it. Anyways according to most rules bounce enhancing cloths are not allowed. But I find it rather odd that wearing a mask that enhances bounces is completely fine, you may not get many bounces but it is the principle behind it. The fact that some masks are advertised to enhance bounces and deflects seems to go against the idea of some of the rulesÖ which I find odd, I donít get it, its weird to me.

The following is a part of the advertised features listed on Rock Star Tactical for the V Force Grill mask.

]Maximum Bounce- Full-Flex ProGrill - center face soft rubber area to maximize bounce factor- Built-in forehead VFlector:Bounce-panel for added face & lens protection[/quote]The following is a part of the advertised product description on the online Specops Paintball Shop for the V Force Profiler mask.[quote name= said:

The VForce Profiler goggles feature an innovative, flex-design that promotes 'bounces' and glancing hits so paintballs deflect off the mask without breaking. The Vflector soft forehead panel also delivers maximum bounce factor without the ProVisor, and the RimShot offers a soft lower edge to enhance comfort.


Now to me it just seems rather odd and hypocritical to disallow bounce enhancing clothing but allow the most bounce enhancing masks for players to wear. Donít get me wrong, bounces happen every once and a while, thatís fine, some paint isnít good, sometimes your out of range and the balls velocity is low and therefore a bounce will happen, but why are bounce enhancing masks being promoted while the clothing is notÖ The message I get from it is that sometimes its ok to cheat, which I disagree with completely. I have gotten my fair share of bounces and so have my opponents but I do not wear clothing or masks with the intent to get a bounceÖ


Anyways I just find it odd. And sorry to slightly jack the thread from safety to rule issues. I just figured Iíd clarify some points I was trying to make. I hope you make a full recovery and donít experience a hit like this again C9H13NO3. Keep on painting.
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#10 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 07:23 AM

I agree with you there, at least with the idea of everyone being against cheating but wearing bounce engineered clothing. kind of backwards if you ask me.
Anywho. so my point.

I have seen plenty of bounces, plenty of balls that got stuck in wierd and odd places which ensued laughter and confusion about the.. where abouts. of the paintball.

I think BDU's have a better bounce factor then most gear out thier, it might have to do with the layering and the soft cotton, which is thinker. so it helps absorb impact.
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#11 User is offline   CapnStank 

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:46 PM

Where I play (and others I've heard) if you're wearing ghillie type clothing you are required to call yourself out on any hit, bounce or not. The fact is that it does hide shots and promote bounce so instead of discouraging anyone's attire choice we just lay down that rule. Of course the people we play with are honest players, those who aren't can't play with our group.

The idea of 'bounce enhancing' masks however is that they're built with angles on them that make dead-on contact less likely. The more likely a shot is to catch the mask at an angle than straight on, the more likely it is to bounce. They do not sacrifice safety but rather try to make the contours on the masks more angular so the balls hit on angles always.

If you don't understand what I'm saying do a search for the A5 and X7 stock hoppers and look at the front (What you'd see if someone was shooting straight at you). The A5 is a big flat front, basically any ball that hits it will break because 90 degree contact will transfer ALL of the energy the ball has into impact. The X7 is extremely angular, the flat surface area is a fraction of the A5's. This way the same shot that would have broken on the A5 carelessly bounces off the X7, saving your elimination.
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#12 User is offline   EthanB08 

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:48 AM

View PostCapnStank, on Jun 29 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

Where I play (and others I've heard) if you're wearing ghillie type clothing you are required to call yourself out on any hit, bounce or not. The fact is that it does hide shots and promote bounce so instead of discouraging anyone's attire choice we just lay down that rule. Of course the people we play with are honest players, those who aren't can't play with our group.

The idea of 'bounce enhancing' masks however is that they're built with angles on them that make dead-on contact less likely. The more likely a shot is to catch the mask at an angle than straight on, the more likely it is to bounce. They do not sacrifice safety but rather try to make the contours on the masks more angular so the balls hit on angles always.

If you don't understand what I'm saying do a search for the A5 and X7 stock hoppers and look at the front (What you'd see if someone was shooting straight at you). The A5 is a big flat front, basically any ball that hits it will break because 90 degree contact will transfer ALL of the energy the ball has into impact. The X7 is extremely angular, the flat surface area is a fraction of the A5's. This way the same shot that would have broken on the A5 carelessly bounces off the X7, saving your elimination.


Ghillies aren't BDU's but I agree with the if it hits it counts whether it breaks or not since a ghillie creates more of a chance of a bounce than a BDU... to my knowledge anyways.

The thing about your way of portraying the idea of "bounce enhancing" masks is that you use the terms "bounce enhancing" to define the idea deflections while in reality they enhance bounces, thats why they attach that term to the masks... Deflections are different, you dont need soft rubber for a deflection, (it can happen with harder surfaces, Example: Hoppers like on the X7, Im pretty certain they are not a soft rubber, and my cousins skull last sunday, I got a bounce right off the top of his head (not the mask, his head)) but soft rubber just so happens to help a lot when it comes to bounces, and softening the blow of a paintball therefore lengthening the time it takes for the force to be released from the ball, and with the remaining force rather than break (because the force required for the break has been slowly destributed) just bounce off of the "bounce enhancing" mask.

And I understand what your saying, but deflections happen off of harder surfaces (as previously said stratigically angled hoppers), therefore soft rubber would not be needed for a mask, unless of course the soft rubber promotes the actual bouncing of a ball off of the mask, which it is advertised to do so... and isnt that a little odd considering the rules are not too kind to the idea of bounce enhancing clothing?

But your probably all sick of me poking at this. So I will leave my argument at that... Its odd... Hypocritcal if you will....
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#13 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 08:28 PM

There are rules in the PSP/CFOA/etc to prevent bounces so I'm not worried about that aspect.

Of course people could argue that the mask is harder than the rest of your body (guns arent part of your body) and it needs to be leveled out. They also comply with all the other clothing rules.

It could also be argued that the flexible parts of masks bounce balls away from the face (BIG complain with the Flex). Personally I wear masks for their comfort, and flexible ones tend to be more comfortable. Go figure. If you have proper form you'll get shot in the gun or lens anyway.

Not that speedball marketing matters anyway, masks keep getting harder in everwhere that you'd want to take a bounce. The new and old EVents are hard in front, the grills have plastic that juts into the rubber that keeps it stiffer, i4s are pretty much hard all teh way around, and the new Axis are pretty hard themselves. Soooo.... marketing seems to be getting harder from the norm that was the Flex. Even JT made the Flex8 and harder, newer, Flex.
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#14 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:37 PM

The new Events have an integrated wire mesh in the blow molded foam ears. Talking with Simon about the change made it seem that he to had taken a shot very similar and decided that just was not right!

I do not use soft ears. I rather like the old Flex7 hard ear pieces.
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#15 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 11:19 PM

View PostKrazy8, on Jul 11 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

The new Events have an integrated wire mesh in the blow molded foam ears. Talking with Simon about the change made it seem that he to had taken a shot very similar and decided that just was not right!

I do not use soft ears. I rather like the old Flex7 hard ear pieces.

I ripped my ears off and played without them once and got blasted in a scenario in the ear. It got my attention for sure, but I didnt die. Then again, I had a beanie on too so. *shrug*

The new Events actually look legit, I didnt like the old ones. Heres a pic of the new ones at Chitown I took.

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