Special Ops Paintball: Socialized Healthcare - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (5 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Socialized Healthcare It's a comin Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   SOLIDUS SNAKE 

  • dislikes his own avvy
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,347
  • Joined: 11-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Statesville North Carolina
  • Brigade Name:CORPORATE ASSASIN

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:09 AM

It seems that within the coming couple of months the President is going to suceed in socializing healthcare: thoughts, opinions?

I personally am disgusted. Obama ran his campaign as such a "moderate" democrat, turns out he is a socialist. Healthcare was the only area which grew jobs since january. Why the government wants to take money from the private sector is beyond me, I dont understand. Truly i dont. The system is not broken so why does it need fixing?

If there has already been a thread on this i apologize and will ask the mods/admins to close it.
RAP 4, We Make All Those Terrible Products Nobody Asked For - C-3
My feedback
0

#2 User is offline   PistolWhipped 

  • Headshot Specialist
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 206
  • Joined: 09-January 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:12 AM

Hate to say "We told you so, but . . . well, we DID tell you so."
“You deserve nothing. Remember that.”
Posted Image
My Feedback. +3/-0
0

#3 User is offline   I.K.E. 

  • A Militia of One
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,686
  • Joined: 03-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kansas
  • Brigade Name:I.K.E.

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:29 AM

View PostSOLIDUS SNAKE, on Jul 15 2009, 11:09 AM, said:

It seems that within the coming couple of months the President is going to suceed in socializing healthcare: thoughts, opinions?

I personally am disgusted. Obama ran his campaign as such a "moderate" democrat, turns out he is a socialist. Healthcare was the only area which grew jobs since january. Why the government wants to take money from the private sector is beyond me, I dont understand. Truly i dont. The system is not broken so why does it need fixing?

If there has already been a thread on this i apologize and will ask the mods/admins to close it.



Well, when millions of people can't get health insurance, the system IS broken. When I can't get health insurance for my healthy family without spending 30% of my income on it, the system IS broken. Healthcare costs are astronomical. I've read somewhere that the number one cause of personal bankruptcy is medical expenses.

Whether Obama is fixing the situation with his plan or not, I dunno. It may make things worse, I dunno. What I do know is that the status quo is crap and the system DOES NOT WORK.
"I love Kaesie because Florentine said so."Bushball is Australian for Woodsball. SOFA Best Grammar '010
Grammar Police Co-Commander Badge #1 IKE & Ike '09 STUDMUFFIN Debater of the 1st Order of Ashrak ASH123
"Overkill is underrated." -Col. John "Hannibal" Smith
Posted Image ... another Staff granted wish.
0

#4 User is offline   evillepaintball 

  • You won't do it! You ain't crazy!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 576
  • Joined: 25-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Evansville Indiana
  • Brigade Name:sunshine ac-05

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:36 AM

The system isn't broken? My mom's coworker has been dealing with major bone mass loss for years now. Her doctor has had her on every medicine, therapy, etc. out there, none of which have worked. This woman lost 7% of her bone mass in the last year. Her doctor recommended the final treatment available: a once/yr injection that costs $2,000/each. Her insurance refused to cover it. Her amazing privatized healthcare refused to cover a treatment that could stop her from losing 7% of her bone mass each year. Why? I am just speculating here, but most likely because it would be cheaper for them to give her a wheelchair several years down the road than spend $2,000 a year to allow her to keep walking.

The private healthcare industry is a business. If you think it has your best interests in mind, you are sorely mistaken. It is about time that someone gives those greedy punks some competition.
"it just doesnt look cool unless you're riding a yamazuki zx1200rrr" - C9H13NO3
0

#5 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:38 AM

View PostPistolWhipped, on Jul 15 2009, 12:12 PM, said:

Hate to say "We told you so, but . . . well, we DID tell you so."


This.

Does our system have its problems that need fixing? Yes. Is socialized medicine it? Not at all.

Things are only going to get worse.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#6 User is offline   Ashrak 

  • Precipice
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 336
  • Joined: 01-December 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:41 AM

View PostPistolWhipped, on Jul 15 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

Hate to say "We told you so, but . . . well, we DID tell you so."


What he said.

I am ignorant on matters of health care. I won't try and pretend I know what I'm talking about.

BUT

Something for all of you to consider is this:

Walter Reed, the VA Hospitals, and the U.S. Department of Veteran's Affairs are all examples of socialized medicine in America.

The U.S. government has been failing - for decades - to provide even barely adequate health care to our veterans. They have failed miserably. They will continue to fail miserably.

What makes anyone think that the result will be any different for the rest of America?
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
Summertime Blues
0

#7 User is offline   evillepaintball 

  • You won't do it! You ain't crazy!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 576
  • Joined: 25-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Evansville Indiana
  • Brigade Name:sunshine ac-05

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:42 AM

What is the answer then? Keep the gov't out and let the system fix its self? Not in a million years will that happen. The insurance corps are enjoying huge profits, why would they change anything?
"it just doesnt look cool unless you're riding a yamazuki zx1200rrr" - C9H13NO3
0

#8 User is offline   Spaceman Spiff 

  • Spaceman Spiff is my hero. Thanks for the avitar Puzuma.
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 231
  • Joined: 21-February 06
  • Location:Somewhere on another planet.
  • Brigade Name:Minister of Destruction

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

No where in the constitution, declaration of independence, or bill of rights are we ensured the right to health insurance. Some people would make the argument that we are ensured the right to "life, liberty, and the persute (sp) of happiness" and therefore should have health insurance to meet that end. But, I ask this question ... when you look at the way the goverment runs schools (those who do the most work get the least pay), the way medicare, which is government run health care (where you have to wait sometimes months to see a doctor), and the DMV (where illegal aliens can possible get state ID getting them one step closer to legitamacy) why would you want the government to ruin the best health care in the world.

Granted drugs in Canada are cheaper than here but then why do I always see Canadians coming to the hospital I work at to get a surgery that they would have been unable to get in their home country before they died?

Everyone who comes into the emergency room is treated and payment plans are available for those without insurance. I could go on forever but I won't.
0

#9 User is offline   CapnStank 

  • Sophomore Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 606
  • Joined: 04-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Regina Saskatchewan
  • Brigade Name:CapnStank

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

Its not so bad in Canada.... I certainly believe things could be better but I'm not in debt because of my broken leg, or my wisdom teeth, or the last weekend I had with a somewhat.... interesting virus.

I barely scratch by as a full time student as is, if I was paying healthcare then I don't know where I'd be.

This post has been edited by CapnStank: 15 July 2009 - 10:47 AM

"Watch out for the guy with the pump, they tend to hit their target."
My BST Feedback: +3/0
0

#10 User is offline   evillepaintball 

  • You won't do it! You ain't crazy!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 576
  • Joined: 25-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Evansville Indiana
  • Brigade Name:sunshine ac-05

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

Ashrak, every time I have heard him talk about his health care plan, he has stated that his goal is not to replace private with social. He only wants to provide an alternative for those who can't afford private. Ask any wounded vet or person in poverty and I am sure they will tell you second rate treatment is better than no treatment at all. That is, of course, assuming that his social health care ends up like the VA.
"it just doesnt look cool unless you're riding a yamazuki zx1200rrr" - C9H13NO3
0

#11 User is offline   SOLIDUS SNAKE 

  • dislikes his own avvy
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,347
  • Joined: 11-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Statesville North Carolina
  • Brigade Name:CORPORATE ASSASIN

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:54 AM

View Postevillepaintball, on Jul 15 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

Ashrak, every time I have heard him talk about his health care plan, he has stated that his goal is not to replace private with social. He only wants to provide an alternative for those who can't afford private. Ask any wounded vet or person in poverty and I am sure they will tell you second rate treatment is better than no treatment at all. That is, of course, assuming that his social health care ends up like the VA.



Offering government healthcare will replace private care. The government isnt going to have to turn a profit like the private sector will, leading the government to allow for lower prices. So of course he says you can stick with the plan you have now...until they bankrupt.
RAP 4, We Make All Those Terrible Products Nobody Asked For - C-3
My feedback
0

#12 User is offline   H3 Proto 

  • Junior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 891
  • Joined: 10-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:55 AM

View Postevillepaintball, on Jul 15 2009, 12:46 PM, said:

Ashrak, every time I have heard him talk about his health care plan, he has stated that his goal is not to replace private with social. He only wants to provide an alternative for those who can't afford private. Ask any wounded vet or person in poverty and I am sure they will tell you second rate treatment is better than no treatment at all. That is, of course, assuming that his social health care ends up like the VA.

Wooh...more taxpayers' money going to people that don't have their own. :dry:

Now before anyone gets too mad at me, I'm not sure if I was serious or not...but go ahead and try to change my mind if you must.
0

#13 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:56 AM

View Postevillepaintball, on Jul 15 2009, 12:46 PM, said:

Ashrak, every time I have heard him talk about his health care plan, he has stated that his goal is not to replace private with social. He only wants to provide an alternative for those who can't afford private. Ask any wounded vet or person in poverty and I am sure they will tell you second rate treatment is better than no treatment at all. That is, of course, assuming that his social health care ends up like the VA.


Two big problems I immediately see with a "mixed" plan:

1. Funding. How do you plan to finance any massive project right now? Print money out of thin air? The economy's in the tank, nobody can afford anything, least of all more taxes. There is no way to finance this.

2. Penalties - Obama's plan makes you pay a significant chunk in extra taxes if you choose to not enroll in the public plan OR a private plan. Suppose you would rather "insure yourself" and not get involved in any form of health insurance. Should that not be your right to decide how you plan for the future? Then why penalize them unfairly with an extra penalty fee on top of the higher taxes to pay for everyone else? They're not taking out of the health care fund by being uninsured.

This bill isn't about improving actual health care facilities, it's just about making a public competitor to the private market. A mild overhaul of the private market would be far more practical, would do far more good, and more Constitutionally acceptable.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#14 User is offline   Ashrak 

  • Precipice
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 336
  • Joined: 01-December 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:59 AM

@ Eville

I don't have an answer. I don't know enough to have an answer.

But what I am saying is that if you think health care is bad now, just wait until the guys running Walter Reed have a go at it.

One thing I think needs to happen - from my own inexperienced viewpoint is this (story time):

Last week, I had an accident while cleaning out my barn. Essentially, I accidentally rammed a pitchfork down through my rubber topped boots, and nicked my foot. Now, these boots are insulted, and the tine did not go through the insulation, but it still drew blood. To play it safe, I went to the emergency room to get a tetanus shot, per the advice of the family doctor.

I got there around 10:30 pm, as this happened at night. The waiting room was not crowded, and it did not take long to get me checked in.

I went to the desk, signed in, told the worker what happened. He entered all this into a computer system - the accident, what I was there for, medical information, et cetera. Ten minutes later, I was called back to Triage, where I met a doctor and a technician. The technician took my BP and pulse while the doctor asked me the same exact questions I had just answered at the front desk. She took a quick look at my foot, and sent me to a small waiting room down the hall.

For over an hour, I waited in this room with...six other people, at times eight. Gradually, people were taken into the (what I'm calling for lack of a better term) the "Regular Hospital Area", which included a work desk and rooms with closing doors, privacy screens, cots, et cetera.

Finally, my turn came. A nurse led me back, dropped me off, told me to wait.

I did.

Half an hour later a Physician's Assistant, came in. She asked me the exact same question I had answered twice already. Please note that this information had been entered into the computer system twice already, by two different people. As she finished asking me questions, another nurse comes in to administer the tetanus shot. She proceeds to ask me the EXACT same questions already asked by the Physician's Assistant, who had just left as the nurse was coming in.

Finally, I get my shot. Another twenty minute wait, and I am sent on my way to outpatient processing. There, payments is made. But here's the kicker - the out processor asked the the EXACT same questions already asked me by FOUR other people, and entered same information into a computer system!

All in all, it took two and hours to get one tetanus shot. I saw about seven people during that time. My information was entered into the system in electronic form multiple times. All that takes paid main hours. Now, I get allergy shots on a regular basis. For those shots, I sign my name to a list, get called back to take a shot, wait for twenty minutes (to check for allergic reaction) and am on my way.

Bottom line: Hospital bureaucracy is inefficient and costs unnecessary man hours and money. That certainly drives up health care costs. Cut the bureaucracy, streamline the process, and you'll save a lot of money.

And that is the extent of my expertise on this matter.
Alea iacta est ~ The board is set, the pieces are moving.
~ Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green, That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown, That host on the morrow lay withered and strown. ~ Destruction of Sennacherib

~ Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the American states a man who more cordially loves a union with his country than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the United States Congress proposes; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America. ~ Thomas Jefferson (modernized)
Summertime Blues
0

#15 User is offline   I.K.E. 

  • A Militia of One
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,686
  • Joined: 03-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kansas
  • Brigade Name:I.K.E.

Posted 15 July 2009 - 11:01 AM

"Best" healthcare in the world? I don't think so. The best healthcare system is one that is affordable and serves everyone.

Healthcare not a right? Perhaps not. But we have controls on our freemarket system to try to keep the system in balance and to try to keep it somewhat fair. (Which is why monopolies are not allowed in general.)

Healthcare is not guaranteed, and neither is living. But if we make our system a pure evolutionary one in which each person must fend entirely for himself, we'll fail as a nation. Healthcare should not be a business. Or at least not one motivated by a bottom line. Insurance is that way.

The system provides both good and bad care. (Remember the lady who DIED in the waiting room? There's a video somewhere.) But regardless of the quality, you can always count on it being EXPENSIVE.

The whole system needs to change. It needs to become geared in such a way that people use it for NECESSARY things rather than for any ol rash. Certain companies give a monthly cash stipend for workers to buy their own insurance. If they find a company that gives them a premium smaller than the stipend, the employee keeps the difference. That kind of a system will drive down prices.
"I love Kaesie because Florentine said so."Bushball is Australian for Woodsball. SOFA Best Grammar '010
Grammar Police Co-Commander Badge #1 IKE & Ike '09 STUDMUFFIN Debater of the 1st Order of Ashrak ASH123
"Overkill is underrated." -Col. John "Hannibal" Smith
Posted Image ... another Staff granted wish.
0

Share this topic:


  • (5 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users