Special Ops Paintball: Tac One Fire Rate... - Special Ops Paintball

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Tac One Fire Rate... Doesn't always shoot for each trigger pull. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 10:02 AM

So, when I first tested my Tac One Longbow, I found when I tried to fire faster than 1-3 bps, I starved the marker for air as I was forced to use my PE steely (800 psi output). In other words, there were time where for a few seconds it did not fire.

I figured that was probably the issue.

Today, I got to try it with the adjustable tank the original owner sold me (900psi ish) - I tried the same thing this time, and found that when I fired faster, I got the "chuff" noise which I assume is the level 10 preventing chopping...but I'm using a longbow mag, and there is a ball loaded obviously as one would roll out the end after each time this happened.

Now, I'm not sure if I still had those starving moments (I may have) but I recall the previous owner saying he tried to tune his ULT to fire full auto, but never quite got it to work - which may mean he messed with the trigger tuning and never returned it to normal (keep in mind when I tried firing faster I decided I would use two fingers to pull the trigger at once to prevent not pulling it all the way).

I know I should probably read up thoroughly on all parts of the marker but with school the way it is right now I was lucky to get out for an hour on a friday night to drive out to a place to test it on a chrono (speeds at a slow ROF weren't particularly consistent - about 10fps range?) so I figure it would be easier to see what you guys think is the most likely problem so I can focus there first as I know these are much more finicky to messing around with compared to my old 98c.

Thanks in advance!
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#2 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:58 PM

hmm. Well the RT trigger can be tuned to have the full auto effect, to get the same effect with the ULT you just add more then the required amount of shims, the only thing is that the ULT is supposed to remove any "bounce" from the trigger.

for starvation, yea that can be fixed with a output of at least 850 PSI

the chuff your hearing might be one of:

- Your actually choppin balls, and the level 10 is actually stopping that.
- Your ULT isnt tuned right at all, ( or he played with it to much) and you need more shims ( prob not, but worth a check)
- Your half stoking the trigger, but you already tried to solve that with full trigger pulls, if you tap the ULT you only "half" shoot the ball.
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#3 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 01:50 AM

View PostEskimo, on 23 October 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

hmm. Well the RT trigger can be tuned to have the full auto effect, to get the same effect with the ULT you just add more then the required amount of shims, the only thing is that the ULT is supposed to remove any "bounce" from the trigger.

for starvation, yea that can be fixed with a output of at least 850 PSI

the chuff your hearing might be one of:

- Your actually choppin balls, and the level 10 is actually stopping that.
- Your ULT isnt tuned right at all, ( or he played with it to much) and you need more shims ( prob not, but worth a check)
- Your half stoking the trigger, but you already tried to solve that with full trigger pulls, if you tap the ULT you only "half" shoot the ball.


Yeah, could be worth taking the level 10 apart - I can't imagine it would be chopping while using a longbow mag as those balls can feed preeeety darn fast (there's no way I was even reaching 10 bps by firing with one finger). Besides, when changing velocity I noticed orange around the edges of the back piece (rust -_- ) ... the guy had been traveling a couple years so not surprised I guess. I should probably take that apart, despite the fact I NEVER took apart my 98c's powertube - it can't be that hard to put back together right?

I suppose it's a long ordeal tuning that level 10 though seeing as there is a video they are supposed to send you explaining how it's done correct? It probably doesn't take any longer than the ULT to mess with though. I just remove the screw in front of the trigger on the gripframe then to get at that?

"Half" shooting the ball couldn't come from not letting the trigger reset all the way between shots could it? That would seem odd as the little pin behind the trigger is resetting it with air... I mean, honestly, I was able to shoot faster than I was trying on this than with my 98c, so obviously something is up.
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#4 User is offline   Enhander 

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 05:56 AM

Another thing that could be causing the chuffing is the trigger rod isnt adjusted far enough out. I was having a similar issue where my ROF wasnt consistant. I have a ULT in my Tac-One, once I adjusted the trigger rod it seemed to have fixed things. I wasnt able to "walk" the trigger..but my ROF/Shot consistancy was 100% better.
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#5 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:20 AM

View PostEnhander, on 24 October 2010 - 06:56 AM, said:

Another thing that could be causing the chuffing is the trigger rod isnt adjusted far enough out. I was having a similar issue where my ROF wasnt consistant. I have a ULT in my Tac-One, once I adjusted the trigger rod it seemed to have fixed things. I wasnt able to "walk" the trigger..but my ROF/Shot consistancy was 100% better.


Haha well I don't know what you mean as I've never seen the trigger internals and stuff but I'll have to look :) and do research when I get a chance!

Another note: the chuffing noise occured even when I was firing no paint (so couldn't be "almost" chopping) - and still only occured when I tried to fire fast.

So, Enhander, would I be doing something with shims to adjust that?

Thanks!
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#6 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 02:57 PM

I know cockers are short stroked by either A) pulling the trigger only halfway back, or B ) releasing the trigger and letting it only get half way back to reset before pulling it again.. I am not well versed in mags, mine hated me. I know you have to pull the trigger back all the way everytime but not sure about having to wait for it to fully reset before pulling again. You say it only happens when you shoot fast, so my only assumption to that would be short stroking the trigger. Which is very easy to do when you are new to a marker where the trigger controls the cycling. Takes time to develop the muscle memory to fire fast.
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#7 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 03:26 PM

It may due to not fully resetting - I just tried adding a shim (it had 3, now 4) and I noticed that the "chuffing" noise may be due to the pin behind the trigger not popping out sometimes - is this due to the ULT? I did notice less issues after adding the shim, but the chuffing still occurs (just less).

EDIT: True, Legato - I've never walked a trigger before. However, a lot of this testing did involve firing with two fingers at once to ensure a full trigger pull as I'd read about short-stroking.

This post has been edited by cdrinkh20: 24 October 2010 - 03:37 PM

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#8 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 03:46 PM

if You have to little Shims in the ULT you will have a longer "pull zone" or area where the marker fires, and it takes longer for the pin to reset,

To tune the ULT just keep adding shims untill the mag double fires or does a burst, then remove a shim until it goes back to one cycle per trigger pull, and your done. Easy.

Once that is in order, if the bolt still takes a bit to reset after a shot then try adding 1 shim into the Level 10. This will help the bolt return quicker after it chuffs, ( which may help) if you put 1 to many in you will be able to hear a small leak from the side of the marker down the powertube.

Short stroking will happen, I still short stroke mine from time to time, But once you get the pattern down. your be able to walk it silly Fast. But remember to tell people to have full trigger pulls if they try it out, They ALWAYS short stroke ( especially if they are micro switch users) and end up blowing up paint in your barrel :dry:

As for playing with the Level ten, if your not sure its tuned right, Shove a barrel swab down the feedneck and fire. If it stops and chuffs, then you wont have to worry about playing with it.

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 24 October 2010 - 03:50 PM

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#9 User is offline   Enhander 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:09 AM

Eskimo said it best!

For a small visual aid..look at this:


As you can see..the trigger rod that I'm referring too is rod behind the trigger that presses up against it..very similar to a Tippmann RT. In this video...the trigger rod wasnt up against my trigger enough. That caused me a lot of problems for a while. I recently adjusted it to the trigger rod touches the trigger more..giving me a more solid trigger pull. I personally like that feeling a lot more than having a "sloppy" trigger that I can somewhat walk. If I want super speed on a mag..Ill just pull out my EMag.. :D
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#10 User is offline   Slivers 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:06 AM

The correct distance from trigger rod to trigger back is about the same as a credit card thickness. I actually have good success with just a smidge less, say your driver's license thickness.
Your problem may also be caused by a crazy tank output. If it's giving irregular output or creeping, the trigger rod distance will vary and you'll get a very inconsistant feel on the trigger. I had this problem with an adjustable reg that had a bad reg seat this year. Ninja tank regs are a great solution.

Also, make sure it's got plenty of quality oil. Gold Cup (Autolube is rebranded Gold Cup) or far better, Outlast (http://www.candcsynt....com/index.htm) are good choices. Mags love oil and will either not work or leak without it. The #1item on the troubleshooting list is always to make sure everything in the valve system is oiled up.
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#11 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:25 AM

Outlast oil link... yours was messed up Slivers.

I adjusted my trigger rod to the same distance, just a hair under a cc - didn't think about a drivers license - good tip. I also drown my mag in Gold Cup oil. Okay, not so extreme, but it gets about 4-5 drops in the asa prior to airing up then shot thru (barrel removed) before each time playing.
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#12 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:48 AM

View Postger, on 26 October 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:

Outlast oil link... yours was messed up Slivers.

I adjusted my trigger rod to the same distance, just a hair under a cc - didn't think about a drivers license - good tip. I also drown my mag in Gold Cup oil. Okay, not so extreme, but it gets about 4-5 drops in the asa prior to airing up then shot thru (barrel removed) before each time playing.


Would it work equally well to put oil in the part I attach my remote to (on the Longbow stock)? The tank I got used has a regulator with the remote line threaded in, so there is no ASA, per say.

I will let you know how it goes when I get a chance to work on it - next couple weeks will likely suck.

Adjusting the trigger rod though...I have to remove the screw under the grip? Or is it in the video? At school atm :P
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#13 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:01 AM

if you can get at it by removing the grip frame then your solid, I'v never tried but from just looking at it, it might be the quickest way to do it.
The long way would be to remove the valve, and the mainbody, then the rail. then the Sear. then unscrew it a bit lol.
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#14 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:22 AM

View PostEskimo, on 26 October 2010 - 11:01 AM, said:

if you can get at it by removing the grip frame then your solid, I'v never tried but from just looking at it, it might be the quickest way to do it.
The long way would be to remove the valve, and the mainbody, then the rail. then the Sear. then unscrew it a bit lol.


I think I will try tuning the ULT and XValve first lol :P sheesh!
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#15 User is offline   Enhander 

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:59 AM

Its actually a lot simpler than it sounds lol. You remove the 2 screws on the grip frame and everything comes off. Ill do a maintenance video on mine soon. We had did one in the past..but it was uploaded to Google Video and its horrible quality.
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