Special Ops Paintball: Thinking of a new gun - Special Ops Paintball

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Thinking of a new gun Getting tired of co2 Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   p8blr 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:46 AM

Because of my limitations, I have always used co2. Recently I have considered getting a couple of scuba tanks, and checking if my local fire station would fill it. And, going off to college, using HPA might be more of an option, with closer fields.
Earlier this year, I got a SP-1 for one reason, CO2. Now with HPA being more of an option, I would like to move up.
I almost ALWAYS play in the woods, but I enjoy some speedball once in a while. I don't generally need to shoot very fast, but I like to have options. So far, I have narrowed my options down:
-I have had an Minimag before, and I really enjoyed it, (except for the occasional chop or short stroke) so perhaps their RT Custom, but with ULT. Not sure if I like the RT, never used one. No eyes, but level 10 should be good enough. And with the ULT, short stroking should not be a problem. Correct?
-After seeing the G3 on the forums with the longbow stock, it looked amazing. Only thing I was worried about would be the optical board, some love it some hate it. But I have never felt one, so I have no opinion.
-Lastly the 09 SLG, I like that it is a lower price, but a little confused on weather I want to mess with a lower end electro gun or not. And I was not really too excited by the composite construction. I know you can get it in aluminum, but I would like a lighter gun.

What I'm basically looking for:
-Trustworthy woods gun.
-Easily able to use it in speedball settings.
-I don't need anything that streams 50,000 bps, just something simple with semi/burst/or mech if AGD.
-I don't care about ramping or special modes, I just play rec ball.
-Ease of use, nothing I really have to worry about doing much more than keeping it clean and lubed.
-Comfort - Easy to hold and VERY light
-Ability to mount t2w stock, with not much modification
-Something that is not prone to breaking down if it gets a little dirty.
-I'm new to higher end guns such as these, so I don't want anything very complex.
-I don't want to have to put a lot of aftermarket junk on it to make it work well (ex. feedneck, asa, reg, etc)
-I do not really mind what barrel it comes with, I will be using my apex front on a freak system.

I may/may not put a t2w stock on. I have had stocks before, and I like the feel, but with goggles I have never been able to aim down the side well. The t2w stock should be more ergonomic, if that's the correct word to use.

Anyways, just throwing this out there.

Suggestions, additions, anything would be appreciated!

Thanks!

This post has been edited by rtozier: 09 August 2009 - 01:50 PM

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#2 User is offline   5N1P3R 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 04:29 PM

AGD Tac One.

Great choice for Rec ball. And if you aren't too competitive about the Airball game, you should be able to keep up with most guys (assuming you buy the ULE Trigger Pull Kit).

The ULE Trigger Pull Kit, I think is the only aftermarket things you should put on it, besides a longer barrel if you wish. The stock barrel is pretty good.

And it can mount a T2W.

I think, though I am not forsure, that you may need to get an ASA, not positive though.

The level 10 NEVER chops.

And it can be quiet for those woods games.

Edit: Check out the thread reviewing the Tac One "StealingYerMail" just made. It is very very well done and explains the Tac One great.

Hope this helps you :)

This post has been edited by W00DSBALL 5N1P3R: 09 August 2009 - 04:30 PM

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#3 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 08:16 PM

A Tac One would be good. If you want an electro, you could get an Etek 2. Egos/Eteks are very reliable, light, and all around great shooting.
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#4 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 09:49 PM

View PostW00DSBALL 5N1P3R, on Aug 9 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

Edit: Check out the thread reviewing the Tac One "StealingYerMail" just made. It is very very well done and explains the Tac One great.

Eskimo wrote that review, not me, although I do own a Tac-One. Credit must be given where it's due.

Anyways, the Tac-One is a solid performer that can only use HPA. A Tac-One bought from AGD will need air fittings, air line, and an ASA. It explicitly states this on their site. The Tac-One, or any X-Valve Mag (they're all the same, no need for the Tac-One unless you need the rails) will perform great, and they are reliable. The Level 10 does not chop, and the X-Valve is extremely consistent, provided that your tank is set up properly for your play style. I would not reccomend the X-Valve to someone who doesn't have an adjustable tank... it's a pain in the ass, because at your average pressure, around 800-850psi, the X-Valve is only really consistent during high rates of fire. When you aren't shooting a string, you velocity goes up and down, and it isn't anything to brag about. Chronoing is also weird, as you chrono with your rapid fire velocity, as if you were shooting a string -- in most cases, this is 10-15fps higher than if you shot slowly. Kind of lame, but the X-Valve is very cool. It's nice to shoot a string and feel the Valve get warm. That sounds weird, sorry.

Anyway, the X-Valve is explained better in eskimo's review in the Review section of the forums. The Tac-One is great, but I am not an X-Valve fan. I put a Classic Valve + Level 7 in my Tac-One and like it much better. And generally speaking, it is much more consistent than it was with the X-Valve, and I was using a red Crossfire with an output of 800psi. As a plus, the Classic Valve can also use co2.

As for the SP-1, my cousin has one, I never shot it with paint, but it seems awesome, and seems like a nice little marker. It is plastic, which sucks, but if it works for you, why switch? It can use HPA just fine.

My advice to you is to look into some used electros... easily the best bang for your buck. Things like older Cyborgs, DMs, Egos, etc, will all out perform a Mag (although they are not necessarily "better"), but they won't whore gas and they will be extremely quiet. Screw the SLG, and screw the G3. Buy a used high end so you can poo on both of them.

Also, air on gun. Much better than a stock when you get used to it.
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#5 User is offline   p8blr 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 10:56 PM

View PostStealingYerMail, on Aug 9 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

View PostW00DSBALL 5N1P3R, on Aug 9 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

Edit: Check out the thread reviewing the Tac One "StealingYerMail" just made. It is very very well done and explains the Tac One great.

Eskimo wrote that review, not me, although I do own a Tac-One. Credit must be given where it's due.

Anyways, the Tac-One is a solid performer that can only use HPA. A Tac-One bought from AGD will need air fittings, air line, and an ASA. It explicitly states this on their site. The Tac-One, or any X-Valve Mag (they're all the same, no need for the Tac-One unless you need the rails) will perform great, and they are reliable. The Level 10 does not chop, and the X-Valve is extremely consistent, provided that your tank is set up properly for your play style. I would not reccomend the X-Valve to someone who doesn't have an adjustable tank... it's a pain in the ass, because at your average pressure, around 800-850psi, the X-Valve is only really consistent during high rates of fire. When you aren't shooting a string, you velocity goes up and down, and it isn't anything to brag about. Chronoing is also weird, as you chrono with your rapid fire velocity, as if you were shooting a string -- in most cases, this is 10-15fps higher than if you shot slowly. Kind of lame, but the X-Valve is very cool. It's nice to shoot a string and feel the Valve get warm. That sounds weird, sorry.

Anyway, the X-Valve is explained better in eskimo's review in the Review section of the forums. The Tac-One is great, but I am not an X-Valve fan. I put a Classic Valve + Level 7 in my Tac-One and like it much better. And generally speaking, it is much more consistent than it was with the X-Valve, and I was using a red Crossfire with an output of 800psi. As a plus, the Classic Valve can also use co2.

As for the SP-1, my cousin has one, I never shot it with paint, but it seems awesome, and seems like a nice little marker. It is plastic, which sucks, but if it works for you, why switch? It can use HPA just fine.

My advice to you is to look into some used electros... easily the best bang for your buck. Things like older Cyborgs, DMs, Egos, etc, will all out perform a Mag (although they are not necessarily "better"), but they won't whore gas and they will be extremely quiet. Screw the SLG, and screw the G3. Buy a used high end so you can poo on both of them.

Also, air on gun. Much better than a stock when you get used to it.


Say, if I were to look for an older Ego, what year would you recommend? I would like too keep it around $500 or less.
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#6 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:03 PM

I'm not really into Egos, but for $500 you could get a used 07 Cyborg, or an 06 Borg for cheaper. They're great markers and the 07/06 is really exactly the same besides a few minor external differences.

I don't know much about Egos, but $500 should cover you. I don't know prices but you might be able to get an 07. If I was buying an Ego blind (as in: without researching it) I would personally go for the most recent model I could afford. But look into Borgs man. MacDev is just... I don't even know! In-Frag!ing-credible. I wanted an Ego for a bit, but they're a little too... flavor of the month for me, if that makes sense.

Personally, I wouldn't buy an Ego. I'm sure they're fine, but on PbN I saw a thread (with pics) of a dude who twisted his Ego's trigger frame off a dive. Cork-screw style. If that happens on a high end, there is absolutely NO excuse. PE said it was a safety feature... but no. If you buy into that, you're insane in the membrane.

This post has been edited by StealingYerMail: 09 August 2009 - 11:08 PM

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#7 User is offline   p8blr 

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

View PostStealingYerMail, on Aug 10 2009, 01:03 AM, said:

I'm not really into Egos, but for $500 you could get a used 07 Cyborg, or an 06 Borg for cheaper. They're great markers and the 07/06 is really exactly the same besides a few minor external differences.

I don't know much about Egos, but $500 should cover you. I don't know prices but you might be able to get an 07. If I was buying an Ego blind (as in: without researching it) I would personally go for the most recent model I could afford. But look into Borgs man. MacDev is just... I don't even know! In-Frag!ing-credible. I wanted an Ego for a bit, but they're a little too... flavor of the month for me, if that makes sense.

Personally, I wouldn't buy an Ego. I'm sure they're fine, but on PbN I saw a thread (with pics) of a dude who twisted his Ego's trigger frame off a dive. Cork-screw style. If that happens on a high end, there is absolutely NO excuse. PE said it was a safety feature... but no. If you buy into that, you're insane in the membrane.


Ok, well I will do some more looking tomorrow. Cheaper is always better, I would defiantly feel more comfortable getting something for less, but I put the limit at $500. Just can't see spending a crazy amount on a gun

Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming!

This post has been edited by rtozier: 09 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

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#8 User is offline   d4rkmonkey 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 01:52 AM

View PostStealingYerMail, on Aug 10 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

Personally, I wouldn't buy an Ego. I'm sure they're fine, but on PbN I saw a thread (with pics) of a dude who twisted his Ego's trigger frame off a dive. Cork-screw style. If that happens on a high end, there is absolutely NO excuse. PE said it was a safety feature... but no. If you buy into that, you're insane in the membrane.


Imagine the amount of force that would be required to twist that frame. I've seen plenty of high-end frames twisted like that too. From my understanding, it happens when a dive goes bad, your barrel hits the ground, and your tank slams into you, thats pretty much all your body weight, with momentum going into your tank/asa/frame. I'd rather my frame twist then have all that force going straight into me. I doubt PE designed it that way, but I don't see a problem with a frame twisting like that. Dive properly and you don't have to worry about that.


I'm sure you could get an 07 ego for $500, not sure about 08 though.

If you're not interested in playing competitively theres no point in spending the money to get something super high end IMO. Look into Dangerous Power guns, they're great for the price, and fairly cheap. Theres also the mini in the same range, or the etek. Look at the mid-range guns, seems like they'd fit you well.
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#9 User is offline   p8blr 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 07:51 AM

View Postd4rkmonkey, on Aug 10 2009, 03:52 AM, said:

If you're not interested in playing competitively theres no point in spending the money to get something super high end IMO.


Well that ^^ is kind of why I was leaning towards the mag route. I can get a new/used mag for a decent price, and with just recball, I don't need much when it comes to high end.
What I'm concerned about the mag is: As SteelingYerMail wrote, the velocity jumps, break in period (better used I guess), and adjustment of the lvl10/ult/x-valve.
Cyborg/Ego/Whatever: Not sure if I need anything that fancy, I really doubt I would appreciate all that it can do in the recball setting.
G3/Slg: Concerned about the performance and/or quality. Going with one of these will really save me some cash, but is it worth it?

Thanks!
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#10 User is offline   commander mike 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 08:05 AM

I thing saving money for a less quality gun is not worth it. I always try to buy the best bang for my buck. You should do the same. You can get older models guns for that price that will be better.
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#11 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 03:06 PM

View Postd4rkmonkey, on Aug 10 2009, 04:52 AM, said:

View PostStealingYerMail, on Aug 10 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

Personally, I wouldn't buy an Ego. I'm sure they're fine, but on PbN I saw a thread (with pics) of a dude who twisted his Ego's trigger frame off a dive. Cork-screw style. If that happens on a high end, there is absolutely NO excuse. PE said it was a safety feature... but no. If you buy into that, you're insane in the membrane.


Imagine the amount of force that would be required to twist that frame. I've seen plenty of high-end frames twisted like that too. From my understanding, it happens when a dive goes bad, your barrel hits the ground, and your tank slams into you, thats pretty much all your body weight, with momentum going into your tank/asa/frame. I'd rather my frame twist then have all that force going straight into me. I doubt PE designed it that way, but I don't see a problem with a frame twisting like that. Dive properly and you don't have to worry about that.

This is true, but I just don't see it as excusable by any means on a $1200 marker or whatever. Yeah, it might be better than the force going into your body, but you'll still probably have to spend more money on an already expensive marker. Regardless, I don't personally hold this against the Ego... poo happens. I mean hell, someone had a Droid reg explode!

As for you OP, there's nothing wrong with older high ends in rec ball. Figure it this way -- if you're spending $500, you could get a new Tac-One, or you could get a used high end like a Borg from a few years ago. A lot of people think that high ends can ONLY shoot fast, but I personally cap my Borg at 8bps and sometimes play with a pocket hopper. I was interested in it's crazy efficiency and amazing consistency, not the fact that it can shoot 34bps or whatever. Speed is not the only thing high ends bring to the table... as an outlaw player, being able to shoot all day off a 70/45 on my Borg is an amazing thing. I can play all day and will run out of paint before I run out of air, since I never buy more than half a case for a day of play.

As for adjusting the Level 10, the Level 10 is very simple. Get a good carrier o-ring and carrier itself, get the right spring, and you're golden. I don't own a ULT trigger so I can't comment on that, but there are plenty of guides, and from what I've seen, it's easy as pie. The Level 10 is very easy to adjust as well... do not forget that AGD probably has the biggest cult following (Maggots...) around, at least on the internet. Someone can always help you install/tune stuff if you're worried about it.

As for the X-Valve, it really isn't THAT bad. But it is important to note that when people talk about their Mag's amazing consistency, they mean it when the marker is shooting a string.

This page is a good read on the X-Valve and how to chrono a marker equipped with one, and what the different output pressures from various tanks can do to change your marker's performance.

Getting a G3 will not save you cash, unless you buy used. What, are they around $300? You can get some older markers for a little more that can stomp it. It is contradictory that you say that you might not appreciate a high end in rec ball, but then go and buy a G3. It's the same idea, just on a cheaper price level so the performance isn't as good. The point is, if you go the G3/SLG route, you're basically just buying a "cheap high end," if that makes sense. So instead of doing that, just buy a used high end. Same idea, better performance.
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#12 User is offline   p8blr 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 08:14 PM

View PostStealingYerMail, on Aug 10 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

View Postd4rkmonkey, on Aug 10 2009, 04:52 AM, said:

View PostStealingYerMail, on Aug 10 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

Personally, I wouldn't buy an Ego. I'm sure they're fine, but on PbN I saw a thread (with pics) of a dude who twisted his Ego's trigger frame off a dive. Cork-screw style. If that happens on a high end, there is absolutely NO excuse. PE said it was a safety feature... but no. If you buy into that, you're insane in the membrane.


Imagine the amount of force that would be required to twist that frame. I've seen plenty of high-end frames twisted like that too. From my understanding, it happens when a dive goes bad, your barrel hits the ground, and your tank slams into you, thats pretty much all your body weight, with momentum going into your tank/asa/frame. I'd rather my frame twist then have all that force going straight into me. I doubt PE designed it that way, but I don't see a problem with a frame twisting like that. Dive properly and you don't have to worry about that.

This is true, but I just don't see it as excusable by any means on a $1200 marker or whatever. Yeah, it might be better than the force going into your body, but you'll still probably have to spend more money on an already expensive marker. Regardless, I don't personally hold this against the Ego... poo happens. I mean hell, someone had a Droid reg explode!

As for you OP, there's nothing wrong with older high ends in rec ball. Figure it this way -- if you're spending $500, you could get a new Tac-One, or you could get a used high end like a Borg from a few years ago. A lot of people think that high ends can ONLY shoot fast, but I personally cap my Borg at 8bps and sometimes play with a pocket hopper. I was interested in it's crazy efficiency and amazing consistency, not the fact that it can shoot 34bps or whatever. Speed is not the only thing high ends bring to the table... as an outlaw player, being able to shoot all day off a 70/45 on my Borg is an amazing thing. I can play all day and will run out of paint before I run out of air, since I never buy more than half a case for a day of play.

As for adjusting the Level 10, the Level 10 is very simple. Get a good carrier o-ring and carrier itself, get the right spring, and you're golden. I don't own a ULT trigger so I can't comment on that, but there are plenty of guides, and from what I've seen, it's easy as pie. The Level 10 is very easy to adjust as well... do not forget that AGD probably has the biggest cult following (Maggots...) around, at least on the internet. Someone can always help you install/tune stuff if you're worried about it.

As for the X-Valve, it really isn't THAT bad. But it is important to note that when people talk about their Mag's amazing consistency, they mean it when the marker is shooting a string.

This page is a good read on the X-Valve and how to chrono a marker equipped with one, and what the different output pressures from various tanks can do to change your marker's performance.

Getting a G3 will not save you cash, unless you buy used. What, are they around $300? You can get some older markers for a little more that can stomp it. It is contradictory that you say that you might not appreciate a high end in rec ball, but then go and buy a G3. It's the same idea, just on a cheaper price level so the performance isn't as good. The point is, if you go the G3/SLG route, you're basically just buying a "cheap high end," if that makes sense. So instead of doing that, just buy a used high end. Same idea, better performance.


Yeah, I get what you are saying. I have no problem with used, so lets say I went the macdev route, you said cyborg, so what year? The G3 runs for 300 bucks, something used but around the same price. So as far as borgs go in this price range, 06 perhaps? It's a little difficult to find them around here. Other suggestions? It does not HAVE to be a macdev.
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#13 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 08:29 PM

I bought my 06 Borg for $300. Needed some TLC but now it shoots like a dream. 06s are identical to 07s really, but the typical 06 goes from $300-$400 generally, but leans more towards $300. MacDev guns also don't really need any upgrades besides an 07 Valve (if it's an 06). In my opinion, markers that don't need upgrades to reach max potential are some of the best...

Oh. And Gladiators RAPE.

With good paint and my Lapco .687 Big Shot, the last time I chronoed my Borg, I got 289, 291, 292. Look around on the Nation or MCB for a Borg or whatever you want, you might have better luck. But someone here is selling an 06 X-Fighters. I forget who.

This post has been edited by StealingYerMail: 10 August 2009 - 08:32 PM

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 08:55 PM

Whats the story on an used Etek? It's planet eclipse, so you can trust the brand I would think? Those run about 300 as well.
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#15 User is offline   StealingYerMail 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 09:13 PM

Yes, PE is fine. I'm not a fan of the twisted grip frame, but like I said, poo happens. I think an Etek would be just fine.
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