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#1 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:04 PM

Not really to spark anything up, but Robin and I went to the U.S. Senatorial debate (Sink-Burris/Ellsworth/Coats). It was on CSpan and everything. It was the last one (obviously) so things got heated between Ellsworth(D) and Coats®. Most of you know my views (or think you do) but I still went in to it as open minded as I could, and it bothered me how many people who went to it that weren't open minded at all. Ellsworth is pretty conservative for a Democrat (more than I think it ideal but thats fine =p), for example, he may be (or already has) getting an Endorsement by the NRA. Coats was a representative while Reagan was president, serving several terms, and Ellsworth is a representative now. Coats has worked for law firms, insurance companies, and more recently was a lobbyist. Ellsworth is much younger and has essentially been a sheriff all his life. To kind of give you guys background info.

At any rate, some people were scolding and shaking their heads at Ellsworth when he would agree with, or same the same thing Coats did. It really bothered me that they would come to a debate and do that (no signs or anything were allowed, but you can still see peoples body language). Mind you he is very conservative for a democrat. I just dont get the point of that.

Anywho, Ellsworth called Coats out more than I thought was necessary. There were a lot of Ellsworth and Anti-Ellsworth ads for the longest time. Didnt know who the other guy was for awhile because of it. =p Lately its been Ellsworth, Anti Ellsworth AND Coats. I guess its because he got tired of being the only nice guy? IDK, I didnt see the other debates but I did hear about how Coats wasn't interested in working with Democrats and said something along the lines of its "Us vs Them". Although, there was one exchange that was acceptable. Coats had been talking about how Ellsworth voted with so and so (usually Pelosi, hell I dont even like her..) 90 percent of the time. Ellsworth said that saying those things is a common tactic. He said something like "...for example, I can say you voted with Pelosi...say fifty percent of the time. It doesnt really mean anything." Then Coats interrupted him and said thats not true and Ellsworth said "You're right, its not true. The record shows you voted with her 54% of the time." Robin, for those of you who don't know, is more conservative than I am (some of you are saying thats not too hard right now...) and even she thought that exchange was acceptable, but she was bothered by the other stuff more than I was. She was talking about how unbiased she was since she didnt know any of the opponents and she's only been in Indiana for about 6mo. I tried to not say much to her about the politics, but I said stuff about the debate like how they got out of order once or the unreasonable people in front of us. She came to the conclusion she liked Sink-Burris the most for sure, but she doesnt think Libertarian politics would work in a country this big. So basically, she just didnt like Coats.

We talked with Ellsworth afterwards even though his press d00d was trying to rush him out. He took a minute to actually talk, so that was really nice.

I just more or less wanted to share my experience. I hadn't ever been to a debate in person and it was neat. =]
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#2 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:35 PM

coooooooool

must have been interesting.

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 27 October 2010 - 01:35 PM

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#3 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:59 PM

US Politics for 2010, in a Nutshell:

Everybody is bad. Vote Thalion for Congress. :dodgy:

(Actually, I've debated trying for one of MN's House seats in 2012, but there's thing called campaign money, and I don't have it. I'd try to win of course, but since I find those odds long and slim it'd probably be just to shake things up for a few months in election season and see how angry I could make the media)

Ok, (half) joking aside, and I promise I'm done horrifying the forum....

View Postghostinthewood, on 27 October 2010 - 03:04 PM, said:

At any rate, some people were scolding and shaking their heads at Ellsworth when he would agree with, or same the same thing Coats did. It really bothered me that they would come to a debate and do that (no signs or anything were allowed, but you can still see peoples body language). Mind you he is very conservative for a democrat. I just dont get the point of that.


Those folks go for the whole "us versus them" game of it all. They're not there to see their guy make his case, but to see him tear down the opposition simply because he's the opposition. I'm with you on this - not the point of a debate at all. Sometimes people can agree, and to assume that they never can is simply idiotic.


Quote

IDK, I didnt see the other debates but I did hear about how Coats wasn't interested in working with Democrats and said something along the lines of its "Us vs Them".


I look at the ability to work with political opponents as not really telling anything. I could come up with examples where it is an either/or without room for compromise, and I could come up with things more open to compromise and discussion. His "us vs them" statement is a pretty poor political move though.

Personally, I don't believe in the "give and take" political system, because then we seem to end up with the worst parts of both sides' ideas (No Child Left Behind, both Bush and Obama stimulus plans, "Obamacare," etc). At the same time, I don't believe in blind straight-party voting/support for no other reason. I don't support <politician> because he's a <party>, I support him because he's got an idea that I like (or, to be realistic, I disagree with him less). I think a Senator/Congressman belongs voting for and against legislation based on what they believe is best, and not try to haggle with the "I give you health care if you give me tax cuts" type argument (picked two random topics out, no particular reason).

Quote

Although, there was one exchange that was acceptable. Coats had been talking about how Ellsworth voted with so and so (usually Pelosi, hell I dont even like her..) 90 percent of the time. Ellsworth said that saying those things is a common tactic. He said something like "...for example, I can say you voted with Pelosi...say fifty percent of the time. It doesnt really mean anything." Then Coats interrupted him and said thats not true and Ellsworth said "You're right, its not true. The record shows you voted with her 54% of the time."


1. :laugh:

2. Yeah, it's a common tactic. I've seen both parties use it - pick a less popular individual from the party and say "so and so voted X% of the time with them!" I think it can be an indicator, but only if taken with the context of what was actually being voted on. That's the key part attack ads/statements lack. Sometimes everyone is going to agree, sometimes they won't agree at all. "Us versus them" coming up again with the assumption that it is impossible that legislation could exist that a majority of politicians on both sides want to support.

Quote

She came to the conclusion she liked Sink-Burris the most for sure, but she doesnt think Libertarian politics would work in a country this big.


Worth a shot to give it a chance.

Fact is, bipartisan big government politics has failed miserably so far. Take a good look at the national debt, and the projected deficits.

Not trying to get too political, not really trying to start a debate, but you know me...
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#4 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:00 PM

It was. I felt really out of place though. Robin and I were definitely the only people there under 30. There were two other kids about our age but their Grandmother knew Ellsworth I guess and they only came to meet him. They were obviously uninterested.

Thalion: IDK man. Dick Luger has been a GREAT senator for Indiana and he is very bi Partisan and he has been serving for quite awhile.

Sink-Burris kind of said that a lot actually. Lol.

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 27 October 2010 - 02:04 PM

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#5 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:19 PM

View Postghostinthewood, on 27 October 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

Thalion: IDK man. Dick Luger has been a GREAT senator for Indiana and he is very bi Partisan and he has been serving for quite awhile.

Sink-Burris kind of said that a lot actually. Lol.


Said that Luger was a great Senator, or said that big government had failed?


As I said, some issues you're going to have most everyone agree on the solution, and that sort of bipartisanship is ok ("ok" as in "well, they voted for what they thought was right" not as in a blank check support of their position)

In other cases, you'll have disagreements, and in that case I think they belong voting for what they think, not voting because they were able to backroom deal "we'll give you X and we get Y for it next". In an ideal system, I'd fully expect there to be Democrats who vote against their party on a particular issue because they happen to agree with the bill, and the same with the Republicans.

So some bipartisanship is good. Some isn't. "Getting things done" shouldn't be the goal of a politician who truly wants to serve. Getting the correct things (best as they believe and know to be correct anyway) done should be.

I guess that's what I was trying to get at with that point.
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#6 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:34 PM

Luger is great. She said the 2 party system obviously doesn't work.

I think bi partisanship is great when ideals are being exchanged. I think a lot of the deems were mad at the reps from Bush' first term for being stubborn and decided to play the game and it's been downhill since.

Robin would probably vote for sink-Harris if she could. She said she felt like she'd be wasting a vote. I told he that wasn't the point. Lol
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#7 User is offline   Mehphisto 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:36 PM

View PostThalion, on 27 October 2010 - 03:59 PM, said:

(Actually, I've debated trying for one of MN's House seats in 2012, but there's thing called campaign money, and I don't have it. I'd try to win of course, but since I find those odds long and slim it'd probably be just to shake things up for a few months in election season and see how angry I could make the media)

You could be like the guy from The Rent is too Damn High party.
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#8 User is offline   Epic_Fail 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:04 PM

read a few words. If we're voting for people..

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#9 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:35 PM

You can vote for nobody =p
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#10 User is offline   mike7822 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

I came in here excepting to make a comment about kielbasa, now I am disappoint. :(
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#11 User is offline   5N1P3R 

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:58 PM

Not gonna lie will, don't see you as a politic kind of guy.

Out of curiosity, why did you want to go?
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#12 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 10:05 PM

=o You dont know me sir.

Because I hadnt been to one and I wanted to see how Ellsworth handled himself in a debate. Being a senator is a bigger deal than being a representative and although he seemed alright as a representative I wanted to see how/if his views changed on anything. I also wanted to see how partisan Coats was.

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 28 October 2010 - 10:05 PM

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