Special Ops Paintball: Why an Electro is better then a Blowback - Special Ops Paintball

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Why an Electro is better then a Blowback The quick-'n-dirty differences Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 05:05 PM

i run an sp8 and a sp1. they do great down here in the deep south. in the 95' weather. and the heat index of 130' with humidity of 99%
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#17 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 06:39 PM

My semis are electros with the exception of a T8 pistol (which is a blow-forward, and made with better parts than most blowbacks).

I've run them in all weather, from the conditions of Oklahoma D-Day to a speedball field in a downpour (pretty sure I saw some felines and canines in the mix) to snow on the ground. Never have I had a catastrophic failure with them on account of enviromental factors.

There's been two issues that stand out in my mind, one was a "everything wears out after a ton of paint" that was tuned and repaired, the other was an issue relating to being a Gen1 marker (which the manufacturer updated on failure).

And no, I don't even shoot that fast most of the time. I like the other benefits covered in this thread.
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#18 User is offline   MurderDeathKill 

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:30 PM

Mech markers have plenty of advantages. They tend to be heavier, for one -- which is a plus for a lot of people that like the heft as a personal preference. They're able to be "fully grasped," in the sense that you can totally understand every facet of the marker's operation without attending college classes on electrophysics (solenoids are a modern marvel). That means you can trouble-shoot it and gun-pr0n the hell out of it, and really, really know what's going on when you pull the trigger.

The advantages of a mech gun are *not* performance-advantages. Not at all.

That's not meant to take away from the value of mech guns, I think they're great -- I love to tinker with them, almost as much as I love to shoot them at human beings. However, in terms of PERFORMANCE, mechanical markers are purely outclassed. It's lower technology.
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#19 User is offline   AsphyxiateHeart 

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:17 PM

What I find rather interesting is that crowd that says they don't have enough money for a "good" electro but you see them sink over a thousand dollars into their Tippmann to make it look like a real gun...*sigh*
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#20 User is offline   Specterunseen 

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:31 PM

View PostAsphyxiateHeart, on Nov 23 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

What I find rather interesting is that crowd that says they don't have enough money for a "good" electro but you see them sink over a thousand dollars into their Tippmann to make it look like a real gun...*sigh*


LOL! I'd love a TM15. But spending $300 over the course of a year or two in upgrading a gun (A5) that I already have, is more cost effective for me personally. I agree that some people go a bit too far though. :-)
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#21 User is offline   Xakk 

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 09:38 PM

View PostSpecterunseen, on Nov 23 2009, 05:31 PM, said:

View PostAsphyxiateHeart, on Nov 23 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

What I find rather interesting is that crowd that says they don't have enough money for a "good" electro but you see them sink over a thousand dollars into their Tippmann to make it look like a real gun...*sigh*


LOL! I'd love a TM15. But spending $300 over the course of a year or two in upgrading a gun (A5) that I already have, is more cost effective for me personally. I agree that some people go a bit too far though. :-)



The problem is.... most of those "upgrades" dont do anything. There are few upgrades to any marker that make it "better" most of it is preference in feel and weight distribution. If you spent 300$ making the marker more comfortable... you got ripped off, if you spent the money on a board or something to up the rof, air efficiency, good for you. :happy:

I too find it sad when people say they cant afford an electro, but they go buy a tippy and upgrade the way it looks - woo it looks like an m16, but it shoots like a piece of junk. The Ion is in the 160$ range now a days - same as an A5. Even though the ion is a SP products and not "mil slim" they are none the less great electros for the price and better than buying a electro spyder or equivalent.

Shooting tourney speed out of the box and doing so with consistency and without chopping up a hail storm, you cant ask for a better marker. I swear by mine. When playing tourney rules, some guy rocking a angel is going to be just as much of a power player as a guy rocking an ion. They cant shoot faster than each other, and the ion is still consistent at 17 bps(like you can shoot that fast with just your fingers anyways).

It comes down to this, your paying the same price of ~170$ Ion vs A5

One has a higher CONSISTENT rof with a double finger trigger, (typically) uses less air, is more consistent in general, is lighter, has electronics that are customizable to tune to your preference(uses batteries - :laugh: ), tear down is simple as long as you dont rip wires, can use any hopper on the market today, eyes, uses N2 or anti-siphon co2, but not mil slim.

The other has a slower rof with a single trigger(show me someone who can walk that :P ), uses more air, less consistent, heavy, no batteries, tear down involves small moving parts(springs), usually comes with a hopper but its the only one you can use, uses N2 or regular co2, mil slim.

So in essence, anyone buying an A5 over an Ion is paying for a mech spyder with a rail and hopper on it that is "rated" at 15 bps... id like to see hat happen without a chop...

If you buy an Ion, your buying a good electro marker, but no rail and have to buy the hopper separate

- however, for asmaller price than modifying a tippy to shoot at the precision and rate of an ion, you can put a rail and a nice hopper on an ion. So, is it like your buying a crappy gun on purpose... or is it just me? :huh: Is it all for the mil slim look? Its like a fad to me i guess... Im more of a function over form kinda guy

If you want a tippy, look at this first
http://www.actionvil...om/010-112-0041
http://www.actionvil...om/011-198-0025

Or one of these(Ive never used one, so I cant back it up like I can the ion)
http://www.actionvil...om/010-112-0127
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#22 User is offline   AaronC 

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:57 AM

Comfort is as big an issue as anything else if not more so with most every field capping bps and firing modes and offering free fills comfort is the one area that you can really focus on to make a noticeable difference. If you put some thought into it dropping $300 into upgrades to help your marker hit 25bps is a complete waste if your field caps you at 13bps and a $200 board that offers you complete control of firing modes is just as bad when your field says you have to keep it in semi. Efficiency is sort of in between it's nice to not have to refill your tank all that often but if your field fills your tanks for free it isn't really crucial. For me comfort is a huge deal I have literally bought new markers and sold them after one game because I didn't like the feel of them on the field but I have never sold a marker because it didn't shoot fast enough or it used too much air.
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#23 User is offline   Self Medicated 

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:05 AM

Free HPA fills?! Nice! I wish my field did that.

I honestly don't understand the big divide between mech and electric markers. I use and enjoy both. When I want to go out and shoot ropes, I use my Promaster. When I want to be a little more conservative with my paint and not worry about my batteries, I use my Kaos. Considering that my budget has been a little tight lately, I've been using my Kaos more. :dodgy:
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#24 User is offline   Bagheera 

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:09 PM

View PostXakk, on Nov 23 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

View PostSpecterunseen, on Nov 23 2009, 05:31 PM, said:

View PostAsphyxiateHeart, on Nov 23 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

What I find rather interesting is that crowd that says they don't have enough money for a "good" electro but you see them sink over a thousand dollars into their Tippmann to make it look like a real gun...*sigh*


LOL! I'd love a TM15. But spending $300 over the course of a year or two in upgrading a gun (A5) that I already have, is more cost effective for me personally. I agree that some people go a bit too far though. :-)



The problem is.... most of those "upgrades" dont do anything. There are few upgrades to any marker that make it "better" most of it is preference in feel and weight distribution. If you spent 300$ making the marker more comfortable... you got ripped off, if you spent the money on a board or something to up the rof, air efficiency, good for you. :D

I too find it sad when people say they cant afford an electro, but they go buy a tippy and upgrade the way it looks - woo it looks like an m16, but it shoots like a piece of junk. The Ion is in the 160$ range now a days - same as an A5. Even though the ion is a SP products and not "mil slim" they are none the less great electros for the price and better than buying a electro spyder or equivalent.

Shooting tourney speed out of the box and doing so with consistency and without chopping up a hail storm, you cant ask for a better marker. I swear by mine. When playing tourney rules, some guy rocking a angel is going to be just as much of a power player as a guy rocking an ion. They cant shoot faster than each other, and the ion is still consistent at 17 bps(like you can shoot that fast with just your fingers anyways).

It comes down to this, your paying the same price of ~170$ Ion vs A5

One has a higher CONSISTENT rof with a double finger trigger, (typically) uses less air, is more consistent in general, is lighter, has electronics that are customizable to tune to your preference(uses batteries - :dodgy: ), tear down is simple as long as you dont rip wires, can use any hopper on the market today, eyes, uses N2 or anti-siphon co2, but not mil slim.

The other has a slower rof with a single trigger(show me someone who can walk that :P ), uses more air, less consistent, heavy, no batteries, tear down involves small moving parts(springs), usually comes with a hopper but its the only one you can use, uses N2 or regular co2, mil slim.

So in essence, anyone buying an A5 over an Ion is paying for a mech spyder with a rail and hopper on it that is "rated" at 15 bps... id like to see hat happen without a chop...

If you buy an Ion, your buying a good electro marker, but no rail and have to buy the hopper separate

- however, for asmaller price than modifying a tippy to shoot at the precision and rate of an ion, you can put a rail and a nice hopper on an ion. So, is it like your buying a crappy gun on purpose... or is it just me? :huh: Is it all for the mil slim look? Its like a fad to me i guess... Im more of a function over form kinda guy

If you want a tippy, look at this first
http://www.actionvil...om/010-112-0041
http://www.actionvil...om/011-198-0025

Or one of these(Ive never used one, so I cant back it up like I can the ion)
http://www.actionvil...om/010-112-0127



Insane ROF, walkable trigger, never chops......... Level X Automag. For additionally insane ROF and walkability, go nuts with a Pnue'd Automag. Oh, and it's PURELY mech. That being said, it's not a blowback, it's a blowforward.

I think the issue here is that blowback, in whatever form it takes (mech or electro, and yes, there are electro Tippmans), is an inherently inferior bolt resetting system in comparison to a blowforward. Add in that it's not usually made with quality parts, and you have even more problems with blowbacks.

One more thing. In Tom Kaye's Automag vids, there comes a guy rocking an awesome mullet from back in the day, when Automag sponsored teams. This guy nicknamed "Sandman" manages to pull something like 16 BPS out of an Automag, dry firing (if I remember correctly), and this was in 1992, with a co2 powered, Level 7, Automag.

Electronics are nifty, but they aren't everything.

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#25 User is offline   Tim Burton 

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:48 PM

View PostAsphyxiateHeart, on Nov 23 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

What I find rather interesting is that crowd that says they don't have enough money for a "good" electro but you see them sink over a thousand dollars into their Tippmann to make it look like a real gun...*sigh*



I'd love an electro. I got an X7 used with the cyclone totally upgraded, a stock, a G36 riser and a better barrel for $300, so I went with it.

Would I like a Phenom? Absolutely, but I'll wait till they start being sold used. I wouldn't mind a TM-15, but I'm not a fan of the hopper. Maybe someday I'll get it used, but I don't see too many of them being sold yet.
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#26 User is offline   Xakk 

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 07:29 PM

View PostBagheera, on Nov 24 2009, 02:09 PM, said:

View PostXakk, on Nov 23 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

View PostSpecterunseen, on Nov 23 2009, 05:31 PM, said:

View PostAsphyxiateHeart, on Nov 23 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

What I find rather interesting is that crowd that says they don't have enough money for a "good" electro but you see them sink over a thousand dollars into their Tippmann to make it look like a real gun...*sigh*


LOL! I'd love a TM15. But spending $300 over the course of a year or two in upgrading a gun (A5) that I already have, is more cost effective for me personally. I agree that some people go a bit too far though. :-)



The problem is.... most of those "upgrades" dont do anything. There are few upgrades to any marker that make it "better" most of it is preference in feel and weight distribution. If you spent 300$ making the marker more comfortable... you got ripped off, if you spent the money on a board or something to up the rof, air efficiency, good for you. :laugh:

I too find it sad when people say they cant afford an electro, but they go buy a tippy and upgrade the way it looks - woo it looks like an m16, but it shoots like a piece of junk. The Ion is in the 160$ range now a days - same as an A5. Even though the ion is a SP products and not "mil slim" they are none the less great electros for the price and better than buying a electro spyder or equivalent.

Shooting tourney speed out of the box and doing so with consistency and without chopping up a hail storm, you cant ask for a better marker. I swear by mine. When playing tourney rules, some guy rocking a angel is going to be just as much of a power player as a guy rocking an ion. They cant shoot faster than each other, and the ion is still consistent at 17 bps(like you can shoot that fast with just your fingers anyways).

It comes down to this, your paying the same price of ~170$ Ion vs A5

One has a higher CONSISTENT rof with a double finger trigger, (typically) uses less air, is more consistent in general, is lighter, has electronics that are customizable to tune to your preference(uses batteries - :D ), tear down is simple as long as you dont rip wires, can use any hopper on the market today, eyes, uses N2 or anti-siphon co2, but not mil slim.

The other has a slower rof with a single trigger(show me someone who can walk that :P ), uses more air, less consistent, heavy, no batteries, tear down involves small moving parts(springs), usually comes with a hopper but its the only one you can use, uses N2 or regular co2, mil slim.

So in essence, anyone buying an A5 over an Ion is paying for a mech spyder with a rail and hopper on it that is "rated" at 15 bps... id like to see hat happen without a chop...

If you buy an Ion, your buying a good electro marker, but no rail and have to buy the hopper separate

- however, for asmaller price than modifying a tippy to shoot at the precision and rate of an ion, you can put a rail and a nice hopper on an ion. So, is it like your buying a crappy gun on purpose... or is it just me? :heart: Is it all for the mil slim look? Its like a fad to me i guess... Im more of a function over form kinda guy

If you want a tippy, look at this first
http://www.actionvil...om/010-112-0041
http://www.actionvil...om/011-198-0025

Or one of these(Ive never used one, so I cant back it up like I can the ion)
http://www.actionvil...om/010-112-0127



Insane ROF, walkable trigger, never chops......... Level X Automag. For additionally insane ROF and walkability, go nuts with a Pnue'd Automag. Oh, and it's PURELY mech. That being said, it's not a blowback, it's a blowforward.

I think the issue here is that blowback, in whatever form it takes (mech or electro, and yes, there are electro Tippmans), is an inherently inferior bolt resetting system in comparison to a blowforward. Add in that it's not usually made with quality parts, and you have even more problems with blowbacks.

One more thing. In Tom Kaye's Automag vids, there comes a guy rocking an awesome mullet from back in the day, when Automag sponsored teams. This guy nicknamed "Sandman" manages to pull something like 16 BPS out of an Automag, dry firing (if I remember correctly), and this was in 1992, with a co2 powered, Level 7, Automag.

Electronics are nifty, but they aren't everything.



Forgot the price. If I spend 400+$ on a marker, mech or electro, it better be that good. My argument was plain and simple, you skewed the lines.

For the SAME PRICE that you can get a mech marker you can get a Electro that is as good or better. My example was for everyone who buys a A5 or a 98c, whatever. For the same price, you can buy a marker that has more features, and shoots better in general. You could try to upgrade the A5 or 98c to shoot as good as an Ion or SP1, but you would waste money in doing so. And for almost the SAME price, you might as well get the electro. Simple as that. I cant think of one thing that a mech as over a electro other than it doesnt need batteries, there are SEVERAL things that make electros better than mechs though, as stated above. :P
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#27 User is offline   AaronC 

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 08:20 AM

View PostXakk, on Nov 24 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

I cant think of one thing that a mech as over a electro other than it doesnt need batteries, there are SEVERAL things that make electros better than mechs though, as stated above. :rolleyes:


Resale value? A high end mech depreciates much less than a high end electro. I bought an A1 Fly this summer for something like $450 that is less than half of what it sold for new. A brand new ULE Automag sells for $480 and used you are lucky to find one for $300. Same goes for all the top tier mechanical markers. With the exception of AKA markers or maybe an E-Blazer I can't think of any markers running on batteries that hold their resale value at all.
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#28 User is offline   Piller 

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 11:21 AM

Resale value is definitely true. There are a few custom Palmer's markers that can actually appreciate in value for those who don't want to wait months for their own custom marker.

I spent under $400 for my ICE Epic, and aside from a slower rate of fire (though really fast for a mech)) I can't think of anything it does worse than an electro, even on CO2.
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#29 User is offline   Flippy the Wonder Bunny 

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:43 PM

I don't get how not needing batteries is really an advantage at all.
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#30 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 03:21 PM

View PostFlippy the Wonder Bunny, on Nov 25 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

I don't get how not needing batteries is really an advantage at all.


Another expendable resource?

It's a fairly cheap one, but I could see the argument made if you played enough to really drain the battery out.

Though if you were doing that pretty consistently, I'd imagine you wouldn't want a mech because it'd be "too slow."
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