Special Ops Paintball: Phantom questions - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Phantom questions looking for opinions... Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Suppresive Fire 

  • SPRAY AND PRAY I spray you pray!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 278
  • Joined: 07-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Derry, NH

Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:01 PM

so ya heres another player that shoots wayyyy too much paint through his A-5, and while its fun and all its freaking expensive to play...

anyways
I've been looking at pumps and what not for almost a year now. Now that i finally have some cash to toss around I've been looking into purchasing a stock class phantom. Stock class because i like the low profile and the extra challenge is enticing. :laugh: plus if i want a gun with a hopper i can play with my A-5 for a bit.

so onto the questions
ok first off, how difficult is it to get a near perfect to perfect match when buying extra parts for a phantom, i really like the dust green brown acid but i do plan on buy extra parts for different configs later on. So at this point im pretty sure im just going to go with black its cheaper anyway.... :facepalm:

next
i just read something a second ago about someone having trouble with their 12g quick changer loosening up after some shots or something. is this really any sort of problem? or is it something easily remedied?

SC vs VSC vs Dropout
what do you guys tend to prefer? like how does the gun handle if the 12g is in SC vs VSC? i mean it is weight thats being moved around so does one have a more "balanced" feel than the other? and onto dropout. this seems like the simplest/fastest way to change a 12g but has anyone ever had any problems or issues with them?

alright this one is probably a given
accuracy
Ive read up on this many a time and people claim incredible accuracy with the gun. based on the number of times ive read that i am guessing its a combination of simplicity and actually aiming. but does anyone have any actuall data on this? like gun clamped in a vice paint and barrel bore measured firing idk how many shots with numbers of hits on a certain size target at a certain range?

and a spin off of accuracy...
ok i got to thinking the other day if a barrel is bored out for inserts is there any ridge or valley where the insert ends and the barrel begins? On top of that is there a noticeable change in accuracy and or efficiency?
Also how drastic is the change in accuracy and efficiency when using a 6 or 8 or 14inch barrel vs the stock 11? (i am considering buying a second barrel with the gun, ie one long one short)

i know i had more questions....
mabye next time lol
thanks for any and all replies
:comp:
With nerves of steel and unfaltering will, we shall prevail



ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
0

#2 User is offline   Sneaky Sir 

  • Studyin' my pump-fu
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 971
  • Joined: 23-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gibbon, MN
  • Brigade Name:Sneaky Sir

Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:18 PM

Alright I'll try to answer them in order.
As for matching parts, It'll be hard to get near perfect matches due to the annodizing process, it makes the patterns random, so it's hard to get them to match. As for color, same concept, different batch, slightly different color. I think the only thing that could ensure you a near perfect match is to go with plain black, since Mike usually stocks a good handful of those parts.

I personally prefer RSC over VSC because it puts the 12 gram changer out of the way. That being said, my reasoning is that I like to pretty much be one with the ground in how close I am to it, so with it being RSC I don't have to worry about it getting in the way. I also get very very slighty better 12 gram efficiency with RSC then I would with VSC i.e. like a couple more shots is all.

Ok here is the common mistake, a Phantom isn't accurate by itself, it needs an accurate operator. The Phantom does however have a remarkably good efficiency and can chrono at about 3+/- when you get it tuned correctly. Also, being a pump, it allows for the air to expand better then in a Semi where you shoot faster and have a faster recharge time then with a pump. Also, another reason that people believe pumps are more accurate is because every shot counts with a pump so you take more into consideration with your shots then you would with a semi which allows you to walk in your shots or just to take 3-4 shots to ensure a hit instead of only one.

Ok I don't know how inserts compare to the stock barrel because I haven't owned an insert barrel for the Phantom. But as for you second part of the question, there really isn't any differences between a short barrel and a long one with the Phantom. An 8in will perform the same as an 11in or a 16in. Its really only preference on size that really would determine what size you pick. I don't think you should spend money on a short and long barrel because of this. I went with an 11in because its in the middle, and I happen to prefer that size.

Hope I could've been of helped and hope I answered your questions. I think you'll be very pleased if you get a Phantom because they are a great gun. A word of warning though, the Phantom is an extremely light marker. My RSC fully loaded with an L stock and ghost ring only weighs in at about 3-4 pounds. So if you like a little heft to your markers, I'd be a bit wary with the Phantom. If you want weight, go with brass :rolleyes:
0

#3 User is offline   xkpxfattyxx 

  • Say WHAT?!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5,343
  • Joined: 28-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SO CAL REPRESENT

Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:23 PM

View PostSuppresive Fire, on Aug 1 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

so onto the questions
ok first off, how difficult is it to get a near perfect to perfect match when buying extra parts for a phantom, i really like the dust green brown acid but i do plan on buy extra parts for different configs later on. So at this point im pretty sure im just going to go with black its cheaper anyway.... :rolleyes:
CCI does a pretty good job matching parts.

next
i just read something a second ago about someone having trouble with their 12g quick changer loosening up after some shots or something. is this really any sort of problem? or is it something easily remedied?
Never heard of that one before, well at least on a phantom.

SC vs VSC vs Dropout
what do you guys tend to prefer? like how does the gun handle if the 12g is in SC vs VSC? i mean it is weight thats being moved around so does one have a more "balanced" feel than the other? and onto dropout. this seems like the simplest/fastest way to change a 12g but has anyone ever had any problems or issues with them?
Where the 12g changer is located is more of a personal preference. Some feel better with it vertical, some back, some drop out. I say more people prefer the vsc style though,

alright this one is probably a given
accuracy
Ive read up on this many a time and people claim incredible accuracy with the gun. based on the number of times ive read that i am guessing its a combination of simplicity and actually aiming. but does anyone have any actuall data on this? like gun clamped in a vice paint and barrel bore measured firing idk how many shots with numbers of hits on a certain size target at a certain range?
All guns shoot the same it's just the limited paint really amkes you aim to make your shot worth it because you won't have another 10 shots right after it.

and a spin off of accuracy...
ok i got to thinking the other day if a barrel is bored out for inserts is there any ridge or valley where the insert ends and the barrel begins? On top of that is there a noticeable change in accuracy and or efficiency?
Also how drastic is the change in accuracy and efficiency when using a 6 or 8 or 14inch barrel vs the stock 11? (i am considering buying a second barrel with the gun, ie one long one short)
Barrel length don't really matter but most use an 11". I used a frantom II which is a bored barrel. I prefer it because I can switch out inserts for the best fit. But the phantom has one of THE BEST stock barrels out there and they're only 25 bucks! And how they're bored the insert sticks out a bit to make it work so no ridges.

i know i had more questions....
mabye next time lol
thanks for any and all replies
:comp:

Answers in red. Ask away.
0

#4 User is offline   dougdeb 

  • ________
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,683
  • Joined: 24-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Formerly Paradise, now MASS.
  • Brigade Name:KWEIMATHA

Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:33 PM

These two did a really good job of answering most of your questions.
One point I will make...Mike at CCI has told me that green is the hardest color to match in anno which is why: 1.) my Phantom has four shades of green on it :rolleyes: and 2.) CCI won't/can't garuantee the matching. My wife has a black/green acid wash VSC that I got her for Christmas and recently bought another part for it. Unfortunately, the new piece is not even close to the original marker. If you plan on getting additional parts later on, it's better to get a standard black.
Aloha, Doug
If the person on the other end of your gun does not walk away eagerly anticipating the next game because of your actions,
you have failed as a paintballer.

0

#5 User is offline   Suppresive Fire 

  • SPRAY AND PRAY I spray you pray!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 278
  • Joined: 07-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Derry, NH

Posted 01 August 2008 - 08:05 PM

thanks so much for the fast replies guys
im leave for a week long vacation in rangley maine so im without a computer for a week
having some of these questions answered already is great

as for the accuracy question i know what most of you guys are telling me
but in asking that question im more looking for actually accuracy tests not how it would compare to other markers
most guns can be pretty accurate when you take time to aim, hell even my A-5 on CO2 with an APEX can hit a water bottle nearly every shot at 75 ft. sorry im kind of a numbers person...

ok at this point im going to have to rule out VSC its extra money i could spend on paint or a HPA tank for my A-5
but dropout vs RSC, dropout seems easier and there isnt a changer bucket to drop in the mud but does the feedtube interfere with the thumbscrew on the back of it? the RSCs are angled down but the dropouts go straight out so has anyone has any issues with that? this ties into me hoping to use a feed tube that hold more than 10 rounds even if it is 12-13 it would let me reload without being completely out of paint.

so im definitely going to go with black if i want a fancy anno ill buy another one later =P

as for how light the gun is it wont bother me much granted im sure it will be different than hauling an A-5 and half a case around but it just means i can run even faster than i normally do. with the A-5 outstripping my cover guys wasnt an issue cause i had my own cover but now mabye not the best idea (insert person screaming oh poo here)... unless its a sprint forward hide under the log and shoot em in the back after they run by lol

erm what else what else
oh yes back to the bored out barrels
since i work at a machine shop i could bore out my barrel and make some nice stainless inserts for any size i wanted
but that would require more looking into and long insert vs short insert, ect ect ect

that being said those of you that have used both a stock barrel and one with an insert
which do you prefer and why? does it actually help efficiency or consistancy? or does it just do the same thing as a set of detent rings?


yea theres more in my head someplace but now i must go sleep
wow i just noticed all of my recent posts have been uuuuuuuber long
oh well
thanks again guys

so i leave you with my favorite quote
"When life gives you lemons make lemonade.
When life gives you bananas make lemonade anyway.
Then sit back and watch the world wonder how you did it."

EDIT- remebered this as i was about to click "shutdown computer" lol
palmerized phantoms? from what i hear the stock phantom is remarkably consistant
what are they like with a stab?
which brings up another question
does the phantom run on high pressure, or low pressure? actuall PSI readings/info would be awesome
like i said im a pain in the butt numbers person

This post has been edited by Suppresive Fire: 01 August 2008 - 08:11 PM

With nerves of steel and unfaltering will, we shall prevail



ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
0

#6 User is offline   dougdeb 

  • ________
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,683
  • Joined: 24-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Formerly Paradise, now MASS.
  • Brigade Name:KWEIMATHA

Posted 01 August 2008 - 09:07 PM

Good luck finding numbers...most of us Phantom guys are a little too laid back to stress over exact numbers. :laugh: Accuracy is more about the quality of the paint, the quality of the barrel, and the paint to bore match. That being said, I (and many others) will tell you that the CCI stock barrel is hands down the best barrel out there.
With the dropout, If you use a longer feed tube (15rd or 15rd cut back to 12-13rd) you can have issues with the knob being in the wrong spot. It can be difficult to turn sometimes.
Good luck and enjoy.
Aloha, Doug
If the person on the other end of your gun does not walk away eagerly anticipating the next game because of your actions,
you have failed as a paintballer.

0

#7 User is offline   Piller 

  • Piller
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,363
  • Joined: 23-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Within range
  • Brigade Name:Piller

Posted 01 August 2008 - 09:56 PM

Yea, it's about as accurate as every other paintball marker. With everything ideal and perfect and a good shooter, you can probably hit an open target more often than not at 150 feet. It's not like your paint will be likely to break at that range anyways. Once you get comfortable with your marker you can be just as accurate as you can with your A-5. To be honest, most all markers are pretty equal in terms of accuracy.

I personally use a dropout changer on my Phantom and like it more than a bucket changer. It's just one less part to deal with and the 12 gram efficiency is improved. I can get as much as 50 shots on a 12 gram under ideal conditions. You also don't have to worry about it being sensitive to varying sizes of 12 grams. Dropout changers are technically stock class by purist standards, but most people don't care. I use one with my 10 round feed tube (which actually holds 11-12) and have no problems using the knob. With a 15 round Tube I could see some trouble getting a solid grip.

Unless you are using really small paint there's no noticeable difference between a stock barrel with detent rings and a bored out freak barrel. Most people who use a bored out barrel with freak inserts just do it because they've had difficulty fiddling with detent rings or have had issues losing their detent rings. A lot of people over exaggerate the important of paint-barrel match. As long as you're somewhat close it doesn't really matter a whole lot. The easiest thing to do is just buy large bore paint and not have to deal with detents or inserts.

Phantoms are generally high pressure markers (like most pumps). They are made to run around 800 psi since they are optimized for CO2. They were made in the days before people really worried about operating pressures. CO2 was all that was around, and the marker functions on whatever pressure it is fed. The more consistent the pressure the more consistent the velocities. Since you're not shooting a whole lot CO2 remains a pretty consistent temperature and you can get good consistency (+/- 5fps) from straight unregulated CO2. A stabilizer doesn't add much to someone use is using CO2 properly. With a stabilizer you can probably get them to run as low as 600psi. There isn't really any good reason though since shootdown isn't an issue because you aren't shooting in large volumes. If it's really cold out you can even run them on straight liquid CO2 from a siphon tank to get you velocities and consistency up.
Automaggot #123 - Pump User #152 - ICE Epic Owner
"Marketing hype in paintball?! The nerve of some people. After all, we paintballers would never throw our hard earned cash into the magic box of marketing hype."
0

#8 User is offline   Sneaky Sir 

  • Studyin' my pump-fu
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 971
  • Joined: 23-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gibbon, MN
  • Brigade Name:Sneaky Sir

Posted 03 August 2008 - 02:46 PM

And Pillar steps in again and cleans up the questions with full detailed explanations and advice. Such a helpful guy. I think you got all of his new questions pretty well covered.
0

#9 User is offline   Matt 

  • ELITE Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5,560
  • Joined: 15-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SoCal

Posted 03 August 2008 - 03:15 PM

Have you ever looked into a sterling?

The new sterlings run about 300, and there are MANY different options that are included with them.

One thing that you might like is it comes with a feedneck and a stick feed. That way, you can play stockclass and if you want to use a hopper, just take off the stick feed and put on the feedneck with hopper of your choice.

The pump stroke is like butter. Really. It is amazing. I have a classic sterling, and if mine is that great, the new ones must be even better.

I am not sure how the stock barrel is, but it is threaded with very common barrel threads, which is spyder. This gives you many options of aftermarket barrels, unlike the phantom.

Mike did a GREAT job at the Phantom, but I think the sterling is just a bit better.

Posted Image
0

#10 User is offline   xkpxfattyxx 

  • Say WHAT?!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5,343
  • Joined: 28-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SO CAL REPRESENT

Posted 03 August 2008 - 04:42 PM

Sterlings are great but I don't like how the stock ones look.
0

#11 User is offline   Suppresive Fire 

  • SPRAY AND PRAY I spray you pray!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 278
  • Joined: 07-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Derry, NH

Posted 09 August 2008 - 05:46 PM

based on price and looks i think ill take the phantom over the sterling
but thanks for the suggestion
not enough people think outside the box these days

and btw you guys really are a wealth of information
plus you managed to put up with all my numbers questions
so ive narrowed down options ect ect and once i get around to it, it looks like im going to buy a dropout stock class phantom, 11in barrel, 10 rd feed, in black. as for the grips im not sure just yet since i should probably get a stock for this thing so right now i think im leaning towards the 45s and a L-stock. anyone want to try to convince me otherwise?

um what else what else
oh yeah
buying my phantom got put on hold since i decided to retire the cheapo v force mask i got when i bought my a-5. the lense is getting scratched and i get a headache if i wear it for to long
so 60-100 of my phantom money is going into a new mask. the grillz look pretty cool

anyways im off topic
but oh yea as for my numbers issue
since no one seems to have em
if i manage to find the time before it gets too cold up here in NH after i buy my phantom ill start running some tests and post the results.
therefore fellow numbers lovers will have them lol

oh and off topic again
i bought some old shed moose antlers while on vacation in rangley
pondering making custom 45 grips and a pump handle out of a piece of one of them
but now im ranting again

questions, comments, suggestions, are all welcome

thanks,
-Nick
With nerves of steel and unfaltering will, we shall prevail



ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
0

#12 User is offline   Krazy8 

  • User Defined
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Retired/Inactive Moderator
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 30-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rathdrum , ID
  • Brigade Name:Krazy8

Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:49 AM

Your a numbers guy.

So am I.

And every paint test I have ever tried to run is skewd by the inherent complexities of the paintball itself.
The things simply are not the same so there is no way to get real numbers.
Oh sure. You can go and shoot 10,000 rnds and average out the zingers and create an numerical chart...but turning around and doing the exact same test six months later with the same brand of paint will yield different result.
I mean bag to bag you get differing sizes in paint. Lets not even talk about box to box!

Ok..take out the variables and guage every ball...mearure and calibrate for roundness...then test. Great you get true numbers but not real playing conditions so the entire excersize is worthless.

Here is real world data for you.

You will play great with what ever you buy becuase it will fit you and your playing style. If it doesn't, then the Phantom is built on an omni platform and the configurations are to numerous to list and eventualy you will find what you like and more then likely it will still be cheaper than the A5 and the countless ways you can try to make it a high end gun.

The stock barrel using detent rings has yet to be outmatched by any barrel combo I have seen. My experiences...Frantom, CCM Switch, Hammer Head, Dye and of course stock. Other than a completely batched Frantom all have had near equal results in accuracy.
Meaning in the long run the barrel that comes on the gun and a $5 set of detent rings are going to save you time and money. And even if you bore out your own barrel for insert...you still have to pay for the inserts...already have them..you still paid for them and you are risking a poor alignment with you bore job.

'L' stock. Good choice if you are a taller lanky player with long arms. Most players under the 6' range do not like the way mine shoulders with the 'L'. Shorter player will want the 'T' stock for its 11" minimum length.

Custom made bone grips....this is a must see for us when you are done! Pictures or we shall release the ninjas!
I might suggest an undercocking kit if you are going to make your own pump handle though....the bone will destroy the finish on the barrel. I am sooo interested to see your finished product!
0

#13 User is offline   flyweightnate 

  • Closed bolt. Rock n cock, or rock n roll.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,595
  • Joined: 17-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY or GA Tech
  • Brigade Name:flyweightnate

Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:03 AM

Phantoms are great, Sterlings are great. Phantoms are easier, IMO.

With a Phantom, you MUST get detent rings, or always buy largebore paint (PMI premiums are one of the few paints still large enough for a stock Phantom barrel). Or splurge and get a JJ Edge kit, but it might be overkill. Bad paint match gives you rollouts, inconsistent velocity, and double feeds. Past that easily fixed issue, Phantoms are downright beautifully made.

With a Sterling, it takes Spyder barrels, giving you hundreds of options to match the bore size, and it has a ball detent to help prevent double feeds. The problems with the Sterlings are a bit more numerous though. Old Sterlings, impossible to find barrels for. Hard to adjust the velocity, too. New Sterlings sometimes need the hoses/ hose seals replaced, as they are pressure fittings that can leak. And their stick feed is downright ugly.
Feedback.
"Listen to nate hes always right, no joke"- Mighty Mike

0

#14 User is offline   Suppresive Fire 

  • SPRAY AND PRAY I spray you pray!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 278
  • Joined: 07-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Derry, NH

Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:48 PM

yea i was just thinking about how those antler grips and pump would look
im torn between using the natural texture of the antler vs a custom carved look
aw hell ive got plenty of antler and a pretty much endless supply of whitetailed deer antlers(should i get off me lazy but and look for sheds) if i ever get around to it maybe ill do both

oh and a note on boring out the stock barrel if i decided to it would be free, the stainless steel inserts would be free and i could have them in almost any size i want. and a note on the fit, a perfect fit would not be an issue considering the shop i work at, we can get the machines to hold +-.0001 tolerances. but then again 5 bucks for detent rings is the easy way out.
problem is im not always a fan of the easy way out. have me choose between running down a trail and running through a swamp, ill pick the swamp. and next time ill be ready for the sawgrass....

oh yea i was just thinking and idk about the look of an undercocking antler pump. it would be easy to put a delrin insert between the antler and the barrel too and presto no scuffo. but when i buy a phantom i plan to do something with the antler
With nerves of steel and unfaltering will, we shall prevail



ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
0

#15 User is offline   BAGELS 

  • good stuff^
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,676
  • Joined: 10-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central MA
  • Brigade Name:I3agels

Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:09 PM

You don't need to make your own antler grips. Any Colt 1911 grips should work. That makes the possibilities endless.

THE INVISI-SIG!
I have no sig, because I am cool like that.
I love my phantom, because it is cool like that....schweet
0

Share this topic:


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users