Special Ops Paintball: Force Fed Hopper Rule in the SPPL - Special Ops Paintball

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Force Fed Hopper Rule in the SPPL Time for change?

#1 User is offline   G4 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 08:35 PM

In speaking with multiple past participants of the SPPL, I feel that it is time to change the rule regarding force fed hoppers (i.e. Halo B, Empire B, Pulse, etc.) on electro pneumatic markers. While I understand the underlying reason for this rule in the league, I do not agree with it. Let me explain:

The main reason that has been given for banning force feds on electro pneumatic markers has been to limit players from jumping over the maximum 15 bps limit. Now, the big issue is the fact that even a Tippmann can do 17 bps without any kind of mods besides an E-Grip, pushing 25 bps with upgrades such as a Rampage board. Now even with the addition of allowing Q Loaders, it seems that the league has a bone to pick with players that use electro pneumatic markers. Why not police the 15 bps limit rather than punishing the people that use electro pneumatic markers? If a mechanical marker can bust the 15 bps limit, why should they not fall under the same rules that the players who use electros have to abide by as well? I consistently hear that this league is about tactics rather than gear, so why is it that the league seems to be afraid to allow certain types of gear? If the game is about tactics, than there should be no qualms about allowing force fed hoppers as the tactics will overcome whatever gear a player decides to use.

Many people could also say, "If the game is about tactics, then it should not make a difference what kind of hopper someone uses, so why should YOU care?" I don't know about the rest of the players in the league, but I have to save a good amount of money to pay for travel, paint, registration and other various costs of participating in the league. After spending the money on an Empire B, I really have no desire to pay for another hopper! I know I am not alone in this either, as others have expressed this feeling to me.

If the league has concerns on players hopping up their rate of fire, then the rules that attempt to enforce it should apply to all players, not just a specific kind of marker that the league seems to have a grudge against. Believe me, turning the screw on the front of my E Grip is ten times easier than removing the grips on my DM5 and trying to fiddle with all the little switches inside.

In conclusion, I propose a petition to this rule, of which I will be the first signature. Feel free to post and I will add your name to the list, also feel free to make another thread that supports the rule, I would like to hear what people on the other side of the fence say. Maybe if there is enough response on this issue, we can see change in the league for the better of all players.

G4

Signatures:
1. Greg Dalby
2. Tenacious221
3. Bralen Jackson
4. Kia Kamauu
5. Ninja Jones
6. Ion King
7. Seaspray
8. NYSNIPER
9. Buckfrenzy
10. Vbg17
11. Empiregeneral.
12. UWANNAGO
13. Snake556
14. RenegadeSniper

This post has been edited by G4: 19 February 2007 - 05:45 PM


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#2 User is offline   Tenacious221 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 08:42 PM

Though I've never played SPPL format...I'd rather see people allowed to use their existing gear or the best gear they can come up with, rather than be forced to tone it down...

Also...15bps is the advertised rate on the Revvy...not what it always feeds. Personally I'd rather have a hopper that can feed FASTER than my marker is allowed to shoot so that I know that I won't have slower feeds...

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#3 User is offline   Xareo 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 09:09 PM

I will have to agree entirely with what was said in the above post. I will try to not be repeditive but will hit many of the same points.

I was an owner of an A-5 for about 6-7 months and now use a DM6. Since the rules alow that you can have full auto and ramp modes on your marker then it should be easy for most markers to reach the max of 15bps. Now...on my a-5 i could cap my rate of fire at 15bps and could hold the max with no issue of breaking paint because the cylone feed on the a-5 is basically a force feed system (the paint is spun/thrown/forced in to the marker thus making the a-5 have little to no paint breakage.

Now...with my Dm6......if i am alowed my pulse loader, or halo, empire etc., and my gun caped at 15bps, then i will be in the same situation as if i was using my a-5. (this would seem fair) However as the current rules stand i would have to use a none force feed loader and even with my cap at 15bps, i would be breaking paint left and right do to the slower feed rate of gravity feed hoppers.

I fully understand the reasoning behind the 15bps limit. I am not questioning that at all, i am trying to show that it seem unfair to me that a-5 be alowed a basically force feed system but other guns be limited to gravity feed. The 15bps max is a good idea, but the way that it is being enforced is by no means the best way to approach it.

Let me also state in closing that the sppl is the SINGLE event that i have looked forward to all year, i hope to come and play my best paintball and have a great time with everyone else attending. I hope that everyone else that is a die-hard paintballer, be-it woodsball, speedball, rangerball or anything in between wishes to have a fun and fair playing field so that we can all play our best and not have to be unfairly restricted in our abilities by having our loaders not be alowed.

-Bralen Jackson
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#4 User is offline   kurlyt7467 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 10:24 PM

I agree with everything above; especially the fact that if your gun is capped at 15 bps who cares what hopper you get to use.

There should be no rule that applies to hoppers at all. (unless it is some crazy hopper that shoots flame or something)

The SPPL should allow players to use the best possible equipment they have. My A-5 can shoot pretty fast with a cyclone on ramp and full auto. Why not let me use my speedball gun with a Halo B, Reloader B, Velocity, or Pulse?

Let players use what ever they feel is the best they have, and then let everyone battle it out on the field.


-- Kia Kamauu

This post has been edited by kurlyt7467: 18 February 2007 - 10:32 PM

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#5 User is offline   Ninja Jones 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 10:49 PM

I agree 100%, if an A5 can use a Cyclone Feed, which is basically the same thing, why can't I use a VLocity? I don't want to have to have to use a revvy or some other out-dated thing of the past, when I've got a perfectly good VLocity sitting in my gear bag. Why they gotta be playa hatin' on me?
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#6 User is offline   ION KING 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 11:47 PM

Yah thats what is keeping me out of the sppl. Any ways why not just make a madatory turney lock and then the could use what they want.
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#7 User is offline   mattman 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:08 AM

View PostION KING, on Feb 19 2007, 01:47 AM, said:

Yah thats what is keeping me out of the sppl. Any ways why not just make a madatory turney lock and then the could use what they want.


If you letting that keep you out - you're missing a great format for a simple disagreement with a rule. If you're waiting for a perfect league in which you agree with EVERYTHING they do - good luck! Me, I'll take the SPPL, warts and all, over anything else I've ever done in paintball . . .

I understand where you guys are coming from, and I especially respect the posts from people who have played the format. And this thread is an excellent way to let the league know how you feel and to push for change (props to you, G4). I personally support the current rule, but even if it was changed it wouldn't keep me away.
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#8 User is offline   Bielerga 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:36 AM

I sign this one all the way. If your gun only shoots 15bps it shouldn't matter how fast your hopper feeds!
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#9 User is offline   G4 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:35 AM

Mattman speaks the truth Ion King, you're missing out on some of the funnest paintball there is!

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming and lets see where this goes!

G4

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#10 User is offline   NYSNIPER 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:45 AM

I agree with you ive never done any SPPL but people shot be able to use what ever they want as long as their is no overwhelming saftey factor.
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#11 User is offline   8-Ball 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 06:37 AM

That's the point though, there IS an over riding safety issue. The overall MAX 15 BPS rule for ALL markers is for safety.

By limiting hoppers on electros the league does not have to dedicate extra reffing staff to police for cheater boards. tournby locks DO NOT defeat cheater boards. non force feed hoppers DO defeat cheater boards, as no gun can shoot faster than it's fed. Now the league ONLY has to police a few certain MECH markers.

Yes, I agree, what we REALLY NEED is a better way to ensure those mech's are treated just as fairly and ARE ALSO LIMITED to the same 15 BPS.

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#12 User is offline   Buckfrenzy 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:39 AM

Put me down. I have a team that is wanting to play SPPL this year, but we ALL would have to buy new hoppers. That is ridiculous.
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#13 User is offline   Da Ref 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 08:46 AM

Everyone who has posted has stated good points, both for rule change and no change. There are a lot of players out there who would not tamper with the locks and setting their markers. But as I have stated before I have reffed in the PSP and NPPL with rules and equipment to check the markers and the problem is still very bad. The PSP has radar guns and mic to check the markers in use and still people try to get past them. The present rule means that we have a limited amount of markers to really watch. There is also the fact that some of the models of hoppers are not going to be around much longer. We are talking about how to handle this. At the events this last year we did not have the manpower to be checking every marker for BPS. This year with more chronos that have the ablity to check this. The rule may be looked at again but for the first event I belive there will not be any more changes made. The ones who say that they stay away because of this rule are the same that tend to not play a field because some of the bunker are not big enought or have hole that they can be shot through. This league is growing there are going to many things that will have to be change to keep up with this. As for not enforceing the rule on mechs try again I do and will check any marker that I belive will be a problem. The best thing you can do and have is post what you belive. This keeps it in front of us and make is easyer to try and put change in. Do not belive that we don't look at what you are saying, we do and it does get talked about. that is way there are some new mods to the rules this year. I am always for the player to make it funner and safer for everyone who is at the events. I wish I could do something for the people that would like to watch, so that more people would see how much fun you have on the fields. G4 I will try to talk to you more at work about it.
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#14 User is offline   G4 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:52 AM

Great points, but I still fail to see why it is so much "easier" to police mech guns only. Cheater boards can be put into a Tippmann just as easy as any other gun on the market, it's simply an issue of electronics. I believe that adopting the handheld chronos used by the PSP and Millennium tournaments should be adopted. This would not only remove the need for limiting a player's gear, but also make policing the rule a uniform decision on every player. No you will not catch every player, but I believe that you catch even less as of now.

G4

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#15 User is offline   vbg17 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:30 AM

I agree this rule should be modified. I have read alot of the other post about people complaining and defending the rule, and I believe that you are already policing some mech guns because of their capabilities, I dont see a huge difference in policing all the markers. If you have to watch all the A5s on the field maybe that is only 5-10, it shouldnt require much more to police the 20 markers on the field IMHO.

So please put y name on that list.

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