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Refill Station - How they work It's mighty helpful Rate Topic: ***** 3 Votes

#31 User is offline   cowcow2831 

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 01:34 PM

why not just strap a 50 lb tank to your back?????? :ghillie:

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#32 User is offline   Gerik Bensing 

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 01:40 PM

Please don't post spam in my topic.

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#33 User is offline   josef_k 

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 03:15 PM

View Posthalfro-Tippmann Forever, on Apr 29 2007, 08:26 PM, said:

where i work we use those bar co2 cansters and my boss said that he could get me one but the only problem is that it probably doesn't have a siphon in it.....anyone know if filling from the tank upside down would work like a siphon? thanks


You can invert a non-siphon CO2 tank if you need liquid; it's how we load liquid CO2 into the spherical pressurant tanks for liquid-propellant rocket engines on sounding rockets. The main reason for having a siphon tank is to make it safer to handle (and because not everybody is going to take the proper safety precautions when inverting a 200lb+ full CO2 tank). However, if you do, you need a proper stand to support it otherwise there's a risk that you could break the valve off, causing the tank to turn itself into a 150lb+ projectile. Also, the tank valve would have a slight possibility of freezing during use (as it'd be one not orignally intended to feed liquid CO2, but as soon as the valve warms back up, it'll return to normal operation (flipping the tank right-side up at the end of the day prior to attempting to close up the valve helps too).


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#34 User is offline   Calvin 

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:07 AM

Is the the same fill station for HPA?

This post has been edited by Calvin: 30 June 2007 - 09:07 AM

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#35 User is offline   Gerik Bensing 

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 11:53 AM

If you're talking about the one I have, no, they are completely different.

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#36 User is offline   Buzz Killington 

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:08 PM

View Postjosef_k, on Jun 26 2007, 04:15 PM, said:

View Posthalfro-Tippmann Forever, on Apr 29 2007, 08:26 PM, said:

where i work we use those bar co2 cansters and my boss said that he could get me one but the only problem is that it probably doesn't have a siphon in it.....anyone know if filling from the tank upside down would work like a siphon? thanks


You can invert a non-siphon CO2 tank if you need liquid; it's how we load liquid CO2 into the spherical pressurant tanks for liquid-propellant rocket engines on sounding rockets. The main reason for having a siphon tank is to make it safer to handle (and because not everybody is going to take the proper safety precautions when inverting a 200lb+ full CO2 tank). However, if you do, you need a proper stand to support it otherwise there's a risk that you could break the valve off, causing the tank to turn itself into a 150lb+ projectile. Also, the tank valve would have a slight possibility of freezing during use (as it'd be one not orignally intended to feed liquid CO2, but as soon as the valve warms back up, it'll return to normal operation (flipping the tank right-side up at the end of the day prior to attempting to close up the valve helps too).

thanks for the help, i just went ahead after i asked and tried filling like that and it worked for me.

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#37 User is offline   Yaxel 

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 06:29 PM

I have a problem and i need to know what is it. I bought a 15lb CO2 tank to fill my 20oz to save some money but is not filling the tanks other than like 2oz. I chilled them and did everything im supposed to and nothing works.

I read here also that on a 30lb tank the last 10 - 15 pounds of CO2 wont be enough to fill. Is that my problem? My tank is not big enough?
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#38 User is offline   Gerik Bensing 

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 07:39 PM

No, it should be big enough. The reason a 50 lb tank won't be able to use the last 10-15 pounds is because of the lack of pressure.

The only thing I can think of is that it is not filled enough. Since it is a 15 pound tank, it will probably not be able to use the last 5 pounds or so. This means you might only get ~10 fills on a full 15 pound tank. Try getting it refilled.

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#39 User is offline   Yaxel 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:28 AM

I didnt even fill it. I went on Friday to the welding place and they replaced it with a filled one. Is pretty full i can assure you because i had the same doubt yesterday from reading in here and many other forums and i weighted it yesterday and its on the 30 lbs + because is a steel tank. Anyways that started happening from the same day i picked it up, i doubt they would have given it to me empty.

Anything else you might think it could be other than being empty? I've seen in different places that you need a washer or something like it in fron of the filling station, the part that connects to the tank. Mine either i didnt noticed or it did not bring it, at the beginning it was losing CO2 through the threads so i added some teflon tape and got that resolved.

Could that be it? Ohh and thanks for the help so far.

This post has been edited by Yaxel: 07 January 2008 - 05:34 AM

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#40 User is offline   Gerik Bensing 

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 06:19 PM

Well, I'm not 100% sure of your setup. Theoretically, it should simply go from point A to point B through a sealed tubing because of pressure. My knowledge of 15 lb tanks is limited, but I would imagine the issue somewhere in insufficient pressure. The best advice I can give you at this point would be to contact the place where you got it and see if they know why you could be running into problems.

Oh, and it is important that the tank is a Siphon tank, is it?

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#41 User is offline   Yaxel 

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 05:40 AM

Yes the tank is syphon but also i think you are right that the tank is kind of empty and i apologize for assuming it wasnt. I though i couldnt be empty because i traded it on friday and used it on sunday, so basically they gave me an empty tank. Anyways i will take whatever is left out and weight the tank empty and take it back to get a filled tank and see the difference, there should be 15 more on top of the weight of the tank. My tank right now weights 34 - 35 pounds and im thinking it should weight somewhere around the 45 - 50 pounds full since is a steel tank. Anyways thanks for the help, you've been really helpfull and also i will post as soon as i get it filled, most likely thats the problem.
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#42 User is offline   Gerik Bensing 

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 05:26 PM

Alright, I hope all goes well for you!

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#43 User is offline   Yaxel 

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 09:28 AM

Well as you mentioned, the tank was almost empty. The weight with valve and everything is between 30 & 31 pounds. I replaced it for a full yesterday and it worked as a charm. Thanks for the help Gerik, really appreciate it ;-)
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#44 User is offline   Gerik Bensing 

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 01:10 PM

Hey, no problem. Glad I could be of assistance.

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#45 User is offline   rwade 

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 05:37 PM

View PostGerik Bensing, on Aug 24 2006, 03:39 PM, said:

Refill Stations
How they work


Buying your own CO2 refill station is a great way to save some money in the long run if you play alot using CO2. The tanks themselves will likely be expensive, at about $200 for a 50lb tank, but you pay about $25 to get 50 lbs (which will get you about 640 ounces out of it), which will come out to be about thirty-two 20oz CO2 tanks. At about $5.00 to get all that refilled at a store you pay $160. As you can see, it definitely adds up. Have your friends use it too and it'll pay for itself in no time.

Another thing you need to know about CO2 bulk tanks is that they are HEAVY! A 50lb tank weighs about 200 pounds! Confused? The 50lb number is how much CO2 the unit holds. All the metal and such to keep it in there makes it way about 200lbs. Got it? Great!



What You Need

CO2 Bulk Tank with Siphon Tube
Posted Image


It is very important that if you rent / buy one you get one that has a Siphon Tube. If you don't you'll be filling your tanks with mostly air, which doesn't do you much good. I personally got my tank from a Carbonation factory, you'll have to call around to find a place that sells or rents CO2 tanks.


Scale
Posted Image


This is another very important item. An electronic scale that measures in ounces is perfect. If you try to get ones that measure more than 5 pounds, it will be really expensive. You won't need anything that can weigh more than 5 pounds.
A great 5lb scale to get is the Pelouze Digital Electronic Postal Scale (if link doesn't work, copy and paste the name into the search bar and it will come right up). It is only $34.00 and can zero your tank to make it easy for you to fill CO2 tanks.
You can also use non-electronic scales such as a meat scale or fish scale. But make sure it is very accurate (I would suggest avoiding these if you can help it - they aren't as exact)

Fill Station
Posted Image


You pretty much have two options here. a single valve or a dual-valve. You'll understand it more later, but pretty much, a single valve only allows you to fill a tank - not empty it. It is very inconvenient and you might as well pay the extra $10 for a dual-valve refill station. A dual-valve refill station features its own on/off valve to allow flow of CO2 and an on/off valve to allow you to "purge" (empty) the CO2 tank.
A good, affordable valve is the Trinity Pro Deluxe Two-Valve Fill Station for $51.




How to Use Your CO2 Refill Station

Now that you've got everything you need to start refilling your own CO2 tanks, you need to know how to use it.

SECURE YOUR BULK TANK!
Make sure your bulk tank is secured. It is very dangerous to allow it to fall over. Worst case scenario would be the valve breaking off and it shooting off like a torpedo and killing / critically injuring several innocent people. No joke. If you secure the tank to a corner and something bad happens, it will just push down and do no harm (again, as long as it is secure). But, the chances of anything like that happening are slim to none.

Attach your refill station to the bulk tank
You will get a little plastic ring with your refill station line that goes in between where you screw in the refill station to the bulk tank. Make sure you put it in there before you attach the line.

When finished, it should look something like this:
Posted Image


ALWAYS CHECK HYDROTEST DATES
The most important thing before continuing is to check the hydrotest date. Bad things can happen if the tank is out of date. Think of the torpedo-bulk-tank in a handheld size. Alot of times you'll find that the date has worn off. Look closely to look for the indent of it.

Look closely to find those hydrotest dates
Posted Image


Attach an empty or near empty CO2 tank to the refill station
Now it's time to get the show on the road. Attach your CO2 tank and screw in the knob like a remote line. You may need to loosen the knob some so CO2 can pass through, but I'll explain that later.

Just about ready to fill!
Posted Image


Empty the CO2 tank
It is a good idea to attach some hose to the barb (the small white piece) to have it redirect the CO2 so you don't get frost bite from the cooled gas
Make sure that the CO2 tank is empty by opening the purge valve. If there is a good amount in the tank still, open the valve only a small amount to allow for the CO2 to drain slowly. If you do it too fast you will chill your tank alot. Not that I would know or anything (I'm lying), but if you drain it too fast with too much CO2 still left in the tank, the frozen over tank may freeze to your tongue for a short period of time [don't try it, seriously]. As I said above, you may need to loosen the knob so CO2 can pass through. If you notice it is going slowly then loosen or tighten it alittle bit accordingly. You'll learn how to do it once you mess with it alittle bit.

An open purge valve
Posted Image


Zero your Tank
Make sure you close your purge valve. Put the completely empty CO2 tank on your scale. Zero the scale.

Zeroed
Posted Image


Chill your tank
You have to "chill" your tank before filling it. If you don't, you will most times not be able to fill the CO2 tank to its capacity.
First, open the Bulk Tanks Valve, just unscrew it until it stops.
Then open the on/off valve connected to the bulk tank and watch the scale. It won't take long, so close the valve again when the tank fills with 1-2 ounces.
Open your purge valve and empty the 1-2 ounces in your tank. You can have it flow out quickly to help the tank chill.

This is the on/off valve to allow flow from the Bulk tank to your CO2 tank
Posted Image


Finally, fill that tank!
Now you're ready to fill your tank. Make sure the tank is completely empty before continuing. You don't want to overfill your tank.
Open the on/off valve to the bulk tank and let the CO2 tank fill. The CO2 tank may rattle around a bit, so just keep a hand near it incase it happens to fall over (unlikely). Watch the scale closely and when you get within 1-2 ounces below the tank capacity, close the on/off valve.

Never fill your CO2 tank to its capacity. Fill to 1-2 ounces below its capacity. This will allow it to expand without any danger of it rupturing if it gets warm. Don't ever try to get that couple ounces in there. It simply isn't safe.

Some examples:
Fill a 9oz to 8oz
Fill a 12oz to 10.5oz
Fill a 20oz to 18.5oz

Also, be sure to realize that a 20oz tank is over a pound, so it will turn 16 ounces into one pound. You will be looking to get no more than 1 lb 3 ounces.

A 20oz CO2 tank properly filled
Posted Image


Just finish it up
All you need to do it completely unscrew the refill station's knob, open the purge on/off valve to empty the excess CO2 in the refill station line, and take your CO2 off of the refill station.


Notes and reiterations:
At the end of the day or whenever you are done using your Refill Station, close the bulk tank's knob. This is just a safety measure incase the refill station's on/off valve fails.

Make sure the CO2 tank you get is made from quality components

Setup Safely with solid base and securly strapped in the upright postion to prevent the tank from falling over.

Read a manual on its use and/or a thread like this which covers most of the bases on it's operation.



There you go, a guide on what you need to fill CO2 tanks and how to do it. I hope this helps!


Gerik Bensing

yeah they defintely save alot of money my dad fills tanks for me and my friends and it helps alot.....
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