Special Ops Paintball: Military Sniper to Paintball Sniper - Special Ops Paintball

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Military Sniper to Paintball Sniper Military snipers conforming to paintball snipers Rate Topic: -----

#61 User is offline   Jellyfish 

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 07:19 AM

View Postboo man91, on Jul 23 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

View PostJellyfish, on Jul 20 2008, 07:46 AM, said:

I'm new to the world of paintball, but not Sniping. I served for 8 years in the U.S. Marine Coprs, 7 of which as a sniper, 4 of which as a sniper team leader, to include 3 tours in Iraq. I'm starting this thread to see if there are any other former or active military snipers out there who have tips and advice for conforming to paintball snipers. We wont need to discuss basics of stalking, shooting, etc. This is for experienced snipers looking for applications of known tactics and techniques in regards to paintball. If there are any real (non-military) veteran paintball snipers out there, i'd love to hear some of your more advanced techniques, etc. Again, I didn't start this thread for someone looking to become a sniper. Lets keep this as an advanced thread only.

Also, if there are any military snipers in the Houston area, let me know!

Oh, and for all you guys claiming to be military snipers, I'll know if you're lieing!!

is it true the sniper has a shooter and a spoter.because thats what i do my budys the spoter an im the shooter.


Typically we work in 4 man teams (two, two man teams in support of each other). As for Spotter/Sniper, typically both guys are trainned snipers. So either one can be the spotter or the shooter. The main reason we have a spotter and a shooter is due to eye fatigue and optics issues. The spotter uses a far more powerful spotting scope. Usually about 30 power or 50 power, giving him a much better view of the target, etc. The problem is this, after looking through a scope of any magnification, kills your eyes. We typically swap positions about every 2 hours or so. There are many other reasons for the spotter/shooter roles such as radio-com, etc.

I don't see a real reason for a shooter spotter team in paintball. I think you'd be far more effective if you used two snipers in support of each other. I touched on this idea under the Sniper Tactics/ 2 man sniper team thread, if you want to read more.
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#62 User is offline   Explosive 

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 10:14 AM

View PostJellyfish, on Jul 24 2008, 10:19 AM, said:

I don't see a real reason for a shooter spotter team in paintball. I think you'd be far more effective if you used two snipers in support of each other. I touched on this idea under the Sniper Tactics/ 2 man sniper team thread, if you want to read more.


One thing: years ago when I had a paintball buddy that built a ghillie suit along with me, and we worked as a 2-man "sniper" team. One of us carried a pump marker, or at least something accurate and back then pumps definitely seemed to be more accurate and the other would carry a semi (firepower).
We would get across the 50 yard line and trail watch, relay intel, take out key players etc. Sometimes I'd take a single shot, get the opposition to charge me and
my buddy would open up on them with his semi paintball marker.

Times have changed, gear as changed (advanced). I can honestly say, some of what worked back then, wouldn't work as well these days.
But it's still the same basic principal.

Finding someone who's as enthused as you to put on a ghillie suit as been a challenge for me, so I've learned to work it alone, or along side a team element.
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#63 User is offline   mrfranswa 

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 12:06 AM

First off:

Welcome to the forums. Thank you for serving our country too! I was planning on going into the military for years, however decided to go to college instead. Good thing for me :)

Second off:

The translation between sniping in both paintball and in real life has it's share of similarities and differences. You are playing the most fun, (and cheapest if you don't waste bullets. I am guessing you received the o'l marine one shot one kill lesson. Even though I am answering a few q's that have already been answered, I hope I can give you a little insight to the role :)

MARKER:

When considering a marker, instead of thinking of an M4, instead think of a sub machine gun. Depending on your marker, it can be a desert eagle, or even a mp5. Also, imagine your clip is 6x as large. Basically, paintball is a, "shoot a lot and hope it hits", sport. This is due to the aerodynamics of the circular round not being very accurate. While a MP5 may have a high rate of fire, it isn't as accurate as a rifle. This does not mean you can't snipe with it!

I don't remember if you said you had a marker, but I suggest a Tippmann. This is because it has the most upgradability of any other woodsball marker, feels the same as a real firearm, and is the best manufactured. I have an old 98 from 1998, and it still works like a charm.

MASK:

I STRONGLY suggest you invest in a good mask. You will probably want a lightweight, comfortable, and large fov mask. Don't bother with one of those full-head wrap masks. While it hurts, you can't get a concussion from a paintball, (I guess if you are shot within 10 feet at 300fps....). I personally use a Vents mask http://www.paintballmask.com/p737/Vents_Av...oduct_info.html. It has one of the slimmest profiles, along with best visibility around. It is 70$. I got mine for only 55, because I knew the guy at my shop. It is mid-range priced, however it is probably one of the bests masks for the job. It has an extremely large FOV, has UV protection, (you will probably play during the day, so you will want this. That way you don't have to wear sunglasses underneath your mask), and has little-NO dampening of noise. That means you will be able to hear nearly as well as if you weren't wearing a mask in the first place! Last, but not least it is really comfortable. I have used this as my primary mask all year now, and even in long 12 hr scenario games, it remains comfortable. The last thing you will want is irritated eyes due to cheap plastic, (I'm looking at YOU JT!). You will never want to use the masks with built-in fans. They say they reduce moisture in the mask, but it is never the case. The sad reality is, if you play in a humid state, you will get some fogging in-between games. High quality insulating foam helps with this, along with a mask's snug fit. I have only had the thing fog up on me once so far this year on a 95 degree day while in full ghillie.

PAINT:

When considering paint, think of it as your bullet. Would you load "made in china" mass produced lead-cast bullets in your m4? If you are like me, you want your paint to be accurate and break, so you don't have to use as much. Basically you have a choice between two different brands; Evil, and Marblizers..... Ok there are more, but IMO they are the best 2. Good rule of thumb is more expensive = better paint.

Now, take down this note. When you are buying your paint, have them bring the box to you. Either open it yourself BEFORE YOU PAY, or have them do it. Take out a bag and look at the paint. Also unscrew your barrel and take it with you. You are looking for these things:

- Are the balls deformed or are they perfect spheres?
- Are the paintballs soft and rubbery, or hard like a pill?
- Do you see any paint in the bag?

If you answer yes to any of these, ask to get another box. That means the paint has gone bad. If the paint looks good and you are at a field, take out a round, and do the lob test. Basically, with a gentle underhand motion, lob the round in the air, and let gravity pull it to earth. Make sure it hits a hard surface. If it cracks like an egg, you have good paint. If it bounces, try again with another round. If 2-3 rounds keep bouncing, then get a different box.

After all of this, place a round in the threaded end of your barrel. If the paintball rolls out of the barrel, then either the paint is too small, or your barrel is too wide. What you want is a snug fit. Place your mouth over the threaded end, and blow as if you were shooting a blowgun. If the paintball shoots out, you have a perfect match. If it is stuck and won't come out, the paint is too big. There is about 3 different paint sizes. I forget exactly what they are, (Think .68, .683, .689 but don't quote me). Anyways on to the paint!

Evil

Pros:

- Brittle shell, will crack on anything, great anti-wipe paint
- Very polished, very round (improves accuracy)

Cons:

- Breaks in your gun easier than marblizers
- sometimes more expensive than marblizers. I have seen it fluxuate between 60-75$

Evil is great paint. I suggest using this in more expensive spool-fed markers. It is really expensive though, (75$ a case at some places!!!)

Marblizers

Pros:

- Hard, brittle shell. Very hard to chop it
- Polishing equal to evil imo
- Amazingly-long life span. I had a bag of marblizers shoot a year after the bag was open, and had paint inside the bag the entire time!

Cons:

- Harder shell= less chance of paint breaking at extended ranges

Marblizers are my paint of choice. I like how strong the stuff is. You will definitely want stronger paint if you use a flatline or apex barrel

All-American DXS BLAZE

Pros:

- Slightly cheaper than the other 2
- Highly polished, little dimpling, hard shell

Cons:

- Doesn't last as long in humidity

I threw in DXS, because when they don't have my paint of choice, I get this. It is about 5-15$ cheaper per case for the paint. Another paint I will swear by!


Ok, you may ask why I am writing such a detailed article about paint. Well, it's partially because I respect people serving in the armed forces. However, most importantly your accuracy and chance for ball-breakage is all about the paint! As long as you keep your marker at about 280fps, barrel length that is 10-18 inches, and have a clean barrel, then you are universally accurate between markers. Knowing your firearm gets you more kills :)

As far as engagement range, I suggest 15-100 feet if you want to be accurate. Paintball guns fire up to 250 feet, but you have to fire a lot of rounds. Up to 100 feet you can generally get a kill with 1-3 shots.

As far as playing styles, paintball snipers generally are a lot more active. Ghillie can be worn, but it is really hot. I suggest action ghillie, or simply moving around less. Another smart buy is a hydration camel pack! That way you can drink while on the field with your mask down!

As far as tactics, they really work the same, however there is less range, and more firepower. Stalking, positioning, firing behind cover is all the same imo.


Um.... trying to remember if I missed anything. Sorry if I re-answered questions mate!
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#64 User is offline   M.O.P. 

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 07:47 AM

alot also depends on if your feild is a byop feild or not if it isnt u will get crappy feild paint
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#65 User is offline   Brainshot 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:36 AM

if you were shooting an 18" barrel, with NO apex or anything on it, and the field allowed up to a 300fps chrono, would you stay at 280 still? why or why not?
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#66 User is offline   Phobeus 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:01 AM

View PostBrainshot, on Aug 4 2008, 07:36 AM, said:

if you were shooting an 18" barrel, with NO apex or anything on it, and the field allowed up to a 300fps chrono, would you stay at 280 still? why or why not?


I chrono to the field limit, THEN, chrono down to where my marker shoots the most accurately with the paint at hand. My gun doesn't shoot as well AT 280 as it does at 265-270, so I chrono it to where it's the most accurate.
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#67 User is offline   Tolgak 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:22 AM

I'm surprised nobody said this:

It seems you're approaching this with an extremely technical mindset. While it's great for sniping, it plays a very small part in paintball.

The solution: play... a lot. I don't just mean play in the style you want to. Spend your first 10-20 days of play breaking out of the newb phase of your experience level. Play as aggressive as you can, and use a wide variety of tactics. Do some careless runs down trails and do some extremely careful walks too. Don't bog your self down with technicalities and internet tactics.

The point of this is to understand how other players see the game. When you feel it's time to play stealthy and sniper-like, you will know what to expect out of players, because you will have made all those mistakes. I didn't become a good player until a bought a PGP and used it for a year. Its limited capabilities forced me to adopt an extremely aggressive play style, which finally got me to understand points of the game I would not have learned with my A-5 + response trigger (I would hang back and I always thought that the slightest exposure would get me shot). You will find that, whether you want to be sneaky or not, you will spend the majority of your combat time in a heavy firefight with a 5-20 yard distance between you and the enemy.

The only useful tip anyone can give you right now is to play aggressive and without fear. Without playing, all the reading and target practice in the world will be useless.


Now, as for gear.

First of all, paintballs aren't the uber-inaccurate waste of time that people keep telling you. With the right ball on a good day, I used to be able to put balls on splats on my first shot fromall but the most extreme ranges. That's right, I could put my paint on a two-inch diameter target from up to 35 yards away. On a bad day, the target wouldn't have to be any bigger than a dinner plate. This was done with my PGP (a pump pistol) with no sight pins or optics, as I had been using it almost every weekend for a year. My posture on such shots was either standing or kneeling, and I was in-fact worse when firing prone. Paintballs are great if you have the right ball-to-barrel match and paintball shooting experience.

Ion's are great if you want to play a more well-rounded game, but are pretty bad for learning the ballistics of a paintball. It could be just me, because I'm a horrible shot with guns commonly viewed as speedball guns. Aiming down the side of a gun with a non-uniform body and non-sturdy mount (bracing the tank against your shoulder) with the potential to back up your shots does not seem to me like a good medium to understand ballistics. It's like learning to snipe with a tripod mounted machine gun.

Use the Ion and be proud you have it. It will be great for learning the game and will be a great backup if you decide to purchase another gun. I would suggest a pump because they're light, the bolt doesn't move before the shot (especially in guns such as the A-5, this can knock your shot off a little bit), they're easy to aim and maintain, and they are extremely comfortable to shoot.

Your mask will be an issue in the long run. Talk to any experienced player here and they'll most probably tell you that they'll never go back to entry-level masks after buying the good stuff. Yes, every mask fogs when it's sucky out (even V-Force). The the benefit of a good mask is comfortable foam, better vision, better breathing and speaking, soft lower parts on some (good for ball bounces and pressing your cheek against gun stocks), and quick change lenses (among others).

So yes, go out and frolic until you're no longer a beginner. Try holding and using different equipment to figure out what's right for you. You'll find that there are a ton of factors that will help you play the way you want to. Take it from a guy who's been changing his play style and equipment (for the better) every year since he started over 6 years ago.
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#68 User is offline   JOHNQ25 

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 11:38 AM

Ok, Iam kind of a new guy around here, not in paintball, not in the service... :) , anyway iam not even from the US. (Hellas).
I love paintball, especially milsim and rec, not because it reminds me sometimes basic CQB and small teams tactics but because it is an extremely team based outdoors game... (i think that "John Rambo" died with paintball... :P )
Enough with the prologue. Question. Do you know what is the difference between a Sniper Element operating physically alone and a Marksman operating into a small squad? We use both but for different reasons.
-A Sniper element can: Ambush. Scout. Feedback Info. Clear Light Threats. Clear Small Fire Bases. Provide Cover.
-A Marksman can: Picks Specific threats INTO the combat zone.

Example: Your scout reports a house 70m from you probably with 3 men inside. What you dont know is that one of them has a full automatic marker longbarreled eg. SP8 Support Ed. the house has around a clearing of 50m. You can not riskto lose anyone of your 5 men squad in a fire & move action. As you stay into the trees your scout reports that you have been spotted and the 3 of the men take positions to the windows and door. When one of your men tries to make a move you hear the barrage of the SP8's 21pbs (if you are lucky and he didnt upgrade the marker). You know that if you could take out the SP8 you would be ok...but...And there come your precious marksman, with a 16'' barrel. You only need to make a diversion and you ve got a headshot to this powerplayer with his SP8. This is the fantastic story. I will tell you the real one now... B)

Me Scout with a 6'' barrel A-5 and my friend with a 18'' Silenced A-5 PSG-1 Modification (dont ask better). We spot the house 200m away from our team right on the path to the objective, they used it as forward post. We informed the leader via radio and he said that he needed more info, even they were not going to pass from there ;) We lay down watching them for 5'. They didn't make any contact for a long time so they were kind of relaxed, one of them even let his SP8 :P and was watching his cellphone... So after another contact with the leader we did this: Picked off the guy with the SP8 and dissapeared back into the forest. They didn't even try to follow us...:) Their post was useless and one good gun was out... By the way, from there later returned our Leader's Squad with the enemy Flag, but they had already gone from there feeling unsafe;) and changed position.

Thank you for letting me share my "sniper" experience... So whatever somebody might think there can always be a guy in the shadows watching you patiently with a marker in hands;)
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