Special Ops Paintball: 3" barrel needs more juice - Special Ops Paintball

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3" barrel needs more juice i need some internal mod help

#1 User is offline   FutureSteve 

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 06:45 PM

i purchased a 3" end game stub nose barrel from the spec ops store and cannot get more than 230 fps from it. Posted Image
can someone help me in any ideas for making it shoot 280-300 fps i play a-5 3" barrel, tac cap, tac pods, remote coil, nitro, and sabre vest.
also what do you guys think about these tactical hoppers?: http://www.davismils...all_loaders.php

thanks,

futuresteve

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#2 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 06:53 PM

how long have you been using the HPA tank? And did the problem just happen when you added the 3" barrel or since you have had the HPA tank? Many people cannot use HPA on an A5. If the output from the tank isn't high enough, you won't achieve proper velocity. I had this issue as did many others who use crossfire tanks. They only output 800 psi, which let me get to 220 fps - 230 fps. To get any higher i had to use a red spring and turn my RVA all the way in, which got me to 240 fps. I ended up going LP kit to achieve proper speeds. Other do not have this issue at all. Such is the problem with tippmann and their horrible tolerances. Some can run perfect at one psi, others cant.

If it's a crossfire tank, send it back to crossfire, they can bump up the output to 850 psi for you, just ask. If you don't want to go that route, put a red mad man spring in, this will make the hammer hit harder, causing some more recoil, but will raise FPS. Or get an RVA and crank it in to raise how hard the hammer hits also. Or get both. :dodgy:

If that fails, try a differnt HPA tank and see if the results are the same. Like i said, some do not output enough to fire a tippy at proper speeds. You can put it on one tippy and it works fine, but yours it may not. Case in point, one friends model 98 couldn't run below 700 psi with a PPS stab and co2 on it. Wouldn't cycle. Another friends 98 we could get down to 325 psi with co2 and a stab, without a low pressure kit, and he was still shooting a little hot, cycling fine. Tippmann tolerances are horrible...so one marker may work fine, the next in line may not. :D

edit: oh and polishing your internals can help gain FPS also. When my friends and i did it we each gained a minimum of 20-30 fps per shot off of it from where we were before.

This post has been edited by Legato: 15 August 2009 - 06:59 PM
Reason for edit: edit for spelling like a 3rd grader

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#3 User is offline   d4rkmonkey 

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 10:40 PM

The hoppers look dumb IMO. I'd go for functionality over looks all the time.
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#4 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 11:04 PM

i wouldn't pay $12 USD for those hoppers, nevermind $80 CDN. That is outrageous. Especialy since they are PVC and non agitated...just a glorifeid looking gravity feed, that won't feed well at all. Kinda useless. There is no angle to the feed, so unless you are constantly tilting your marker to fire, it will be useless to you... Plus you can buy one from some company in the US for under $15 USD. Just use the normal hopper if you want to fit 200 rounds, or the ricochet hopper if you want bounces.
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#5 User is offline   FutureSteve 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 04:46 AM

i believe the hpa tank is fine but i'll have to check that out thats some good tank info.
when i switch barrels like my 10" and 14" i can get 300fps maybe 315 fps at best so i think it's just that the barrel loses a lot of velocity since its really only 2" long.
these are great tips and just what i'm looking for i'll order the red mad man spring kit, velocity adjuster, and i found a tutorial on how to polish the internals.
thanks for the help this is what these forums are for and i really appreciate your help.

f that tactical barrel,

futuresteve
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#6 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 04:57 AM

the 3" barrel is a big thing. A PB generally needs 8" of unported barrel to get up to 280 FPS. That will use a small amount of gas. To do it in less than half the length, you need to use a hell of a lot more gas. Either by raising operating PSI or by springing it harder so it hits the valve harder.

Case in point, i shoot pumps. My normal pumps with 12" barrels get 30-35 shots off a 12 gram before exhausting it. I bought a PPS Short N Nasty (double barreled with two 4 inch barrels). In order to get TWO paintballs to 280 FPS using one valve the springing is extreme. It only gets 8-10 shots off a 12 gram. Like my GF can't cock it the springs are so stiff. The pump stroke is very hard...because the hammer has to hit rediculosly hard to open the valve longer to get the ball up to speed.

and polisihing is a quick easy thing, can take under 20 minutes. Just don't go crazy. You are only removing overspray, not trying to reshape the internals. So rub til the over spray is gone and stop there. You don't want to take off actual parts of the reciever. Then buff it up good with some Mother's Mag aluminum polish ($5 at walmart auto aisle)

if you need any help just ask. :P
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#7 User is offline   FutureSteve 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 06:47 AM

" Either by raising operating PSI or by springing it harder so it hits the valve harder"
ok so how do i do this? i'm guessing the red mad man spring. as for raising the operating psi i always borrow my buddies hpa tank. if i buy my own what kind would you recommend for me so i can get the most fps out of my gun. waisting gas is not an issue i only run with a 40 round hopper for an don't use much gas most of the time. it could be be a big tank since it is on remote.
short and nasty is bad as crap i read an article on one of those. 100 pounds of cocking strength eh?
cool legato thanks dude.

steve
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#8 User is offline   Gilla 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:13 AM

I have a stock barrel cut down to 2" on a 98c, I was shooting 225 FPS. I purchased a python barrel kit and jumped up to about 270 FPS. I would expect that you"ll need to extend you barrel. I am trying the stiffer spring when I go out to play again.
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#9 User is offline   Florentine 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 03:26 PM

When I had my A-5, many, many years ago, I bought a 3" stub barrel as well, and I had a lot of trouble getting the FPS up. But when I would switch to my 16" Operator barrel, It would shoot just fine. The thing is, a paintball needs about 6-8" of barrel to reach 300 FPS, so when you cut it down to 3", your losing a lot of your speed.
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#10 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:39 PM

View PostFutureSteve, on Aug 16 2009, 09:47 AM, said:

" Either by raising operating PSI or by springing it harder so it hits the valve harder"
ok so how do i do this? i'm guessing the red mad man spring.
you either A) get a higher output HPA tank that outputs a higher PSI, or B ) a red mad man spring or RVA (these make the hammer hit the valve harder, causing it to release a higher volume of gas)

as for raising the operating psi i always borrow my buddies hpa tank. if i buy my own what kind would you recommend for me so i can get the most fps out of my gun.
This you'd have to try out on your own. Find a tank that outputs 850 psi minimum or get an adjustable tank (they cost a bit more, but have adjustable output, just make sure it can go up to and past 800 PSI). You also want to get a tank that can shoot the proper number of shots that you want. For Tippys the rough formula is 10 shots per CI at 3000 PSI, or 15 shots per CI at 4500 PSI. So a 68/3000 gets you 680 shots and a 68/4500 gets you 1020 shots. Find a size that holds all the air you need for a game or two (more if you play outlaw). Carbon Fiber wrapped tanks cost a bit more then steel or aluminum, but weigh sooooo much less and can hold so much more air

waisting gas is not an issue i only run with a 40 round hopper for an don't use much gas most of the time. it could be be a big tank since it is on remote.
Yeah but if the tank is too big it is just annoying and weighs you down. A nice small tank is great. I like 70/4500 stubby/peanut tanks or the small pump tanks (13/3000 and 22/3000)

short and nasty is bad as crap i read an article on one of those. 100 pounds of cocking strength eh?
cool legato thanks dude.
Not exactly 100 lbs, but it is SUPER stiff. Like PKJ can't pump it at all. It isn't too bad for me, but i can't just flick my wrist and do it either like someone with a CCM pump can.
steve

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Basically a PB marker runs in two formats to propel the paintball. It either uses a high pressure (800 psi+) and a low volume/amount of air...or it runs at a low pressure (40psi or less) and a high volume of air. To propel your PB in your A5 in such a short distance you need both a High pressure and a high volume of air. So you are going to use a bit more gas then the average person will. As long as you are ok with that then you will be fine.

But like i said, to accomodate taht, you need a high output HPA tank and/or a red madman spring and an RVA cranked in. Just realize that the higher pressure tank won't increase the kick, the red spring and RVA will. No it won't kick like a mule, but it will be much more noticable. So if you can find a higher output HPA tank reg for cheap, try that first. It may be all you need.

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#11 User is offline   FutureSteve 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 06:27 PM

thanks for breaking that down for me legato, i really didn't know the factors there. so sounds good, i have faith in your advice.
if you can shoot two balls at once in dual 4" barrels with a 12gram@280fps i think i'll be able to pull it off with these upgrades in my single 3".
very informative thanks again!

-NightmareSteve
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#12 User is offline   Slivers 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 08:10 PM

Ooh, semi-necroposting fun!

For a Tippmann, increasing velocity is done by altering the balance of the valve spring to the hammer spring. Stronger hammer spring and weaker valve spring = valve opens for longer time.

If you're not having success at that, you may be dealing with a valve that's open longer than the paintball is in that 3" barrel. Your only option there is to get more pressure into the system. Might be a good idea to throw an adjustable regulator on your HPA tank. Ninja is a good place to start.
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