Special Ops Paintball: Marker Mythbusting - Special Ops Paintball

Jump to content


  • (11 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Marker Mythbusting Clearing up some misconceptions about assorted guns Rate Topic: ****- 1 Votes

#1 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

  • Thrilling Heroics
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,237
  • Joined: 10-May 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whitehorse, Yukon
  • Brigade Name:Marauder_Pilot

Posted 03 November 2007 - 06:49 AM

Alright, I've noticed that, among both newbies and seasoned veterans, there are a bunch of common misconceptions about various paintball guns and gear. So, in the interest of informing the uninformed and helping everybody make better decisions when buying a gun.

1) Marker (x) shoots further then marker (y).
More often then not, this takes the form of either a) Autocockers, B) milsim guns or c) guns with longer barrels shoot further. This is false. There are only two ways to increase the range of your paintball gun-the Tippmann Flatline barrel, available for 98Cs, A-5s and X-7s, and the BT Apex Barrel, which can be gotten in A-5, 98C, Ion, Autococker, Spyder and other threads. The tip can also be adapted to fit on any barrel. However, Apexs and Flatlines notwithstanding, any marker shooting the same velocity will fire a paintball the same difference.
Now, there will be variations, depending on weather, velocity of the individual shot (more on that later), good paint-to-barrel match (more on that later) and paint quality, but, give-or-take a meter or two, they'll all go the same difference.

2) Longer barrels increase accuracy.
This is true, to an extent. The idea length is between 12" and 14". Before 12", you lose some accuracy, beyond 14", you're losing air efficiency. However, the barrel length is the most minute factor in determining the accuracy of a paintball gun. Bore matching and consistency do far more then barrel length.

3) Increasing accuracy:
There are three factors you can modify on any paintgun to increase accuracy. Barrel length, paint-bore match and consistency. Barrel length was already covered. Paint-bore match is the process of ensuring a good fit with the paint and the barrel. This is most often achieved with a barrel kit-they usually have a selection of 6" backs with different diameters to match the paint (Since paint can vary from anywhere between 0.67" and 0.69" in diameter) and assorted different length fronts. Barrel kits usually run in the $80-$150 range. A cheaper method is to simply buy a single barrel of a particular bore to match the paint you usually use. Most barrels are available in different bores.
The third factor is consistency. This the most important factor. A paintball travelling through the same gun at the same velocity will land in the same spot every time, assuming consistent weather. However, no gun ever gets perfect accuracy. With a blowback and an unregulated CO2 tank, you can see up to +/-12 FPS. With an electropneumatic running with a good regulator and good HPA tank, you can see +/-1 FPS. On most guns, all you can do is add a regulator and a decent HPA tank. For tanks, Draxxus, MacDev, Crossfire and Pure Energy are good choices. However, any tank will be good. For regulators, by-and-large they all operate pretty similar. On a high-end gun, you don't really need to upgrade the regulator. The only one I'll specifically mention is the Palmer's Stabilizer, which is the best choice for a gun that runs on CO2, since, unlike most regulators, they eat liquid CO2 for breakfast.

4) Closed Bolt Accuracy:
In the older days of paintball, the consistent accuracy of closed-bolt guns, namely Autocockers, perpetuated the myth that closed-bolt guns were more accurate. A closed-bolt gun is any gun that keeps the bolt forward when in 'rest' position. However, this myth came out of one of the downfalls of the closed-bolt designs. Since closed-bolt designs didn't have detents to prevent balls from rolling out of the breech, they required a perfect paint-barrel match just to keep paint in the gun. However, since they had good matches, this gave them their legendary accuracy.

5) Electros are unreliable:
No. A lot of people on here will tell you that an electro is unreliable, and that the woods will eat them for breakfast. This is totally wrong. For one, electro guns are, by-and-large, built better then the Tippmanns most people compare them against. They're milled from solid blocks of aluminum, Tippmanns are smelted and cast. Also, they're easier to do basic maintenance on. A Tippmann requires that you break it completely open, oil it down, and put it back together. Electros usually have one-bolt removal for the bolt (Bolt-out back-you remove a screw or two, with an allen key, and the whole assembly pulls right out). You pull it out, grease it up, and put it back in. The grips are, when in your hand, effectively sealed. Unless you submerge it for a long period of time, you'll never trash the electronics. Anybody who claims that they're unreliable has never spent time with one, and is working off of old stereotypes long incorrect.

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, and I'll come to them when I remember them. But I've covered the important ones here.
0

#2 User is offline   Galihad 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,027
  • Joined: 25-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma
  • Brigade Name:Galihad

Posted 03 November 2007 - 08:57 AM

this is a pretty good write up... now if only we can get people to actually spend the time reading it

going to PM you about one or two errors very minor, but make you sound a bit more perfessional and clear up potential misunderstandings
Christian paintballers -beating the hell out of satan with tiny balls-
Sabre #117
My feedback!:click here
0

#3 User is offline   Thalion 

  • Probably in the Shooters Thread...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,984
  • Joined: 22-January 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 03 November 2007 - 09:21 AM

Pretty good overall.

I'd still like to sometime (given the funding and/or donation of some makers) do the actual tests and prove what we know to be true on video for the new players.
Member of Team Akkadian

0

#4 User is offline   Not_You 

  • Lather, Rinse, Repeat as Desired.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,100
  • Joined: 03-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:harvest, AL
  • Brigade Name:98customizer

Posted 03 November 2007 - 10:18 AM

to me, the largest factor is the quality of the paint

you want to get high quality paint that is perfectly spherical and un-dimpled.

out of round and/or dimpled paint will affect accuracy the most
Group: Banned #2
Pirate - "Seriously, I hope you hit this kid over the head with something very, very heavy. Like a truck."
0

#5 User is offline   shade 

  • Shade: A disembodied spirit... a ghost
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: 30-September 06
  • Location:Mahwah, NJ
  • Brigade Name:ramapo

Posted 03 November 2007 - 01:18 PM

For accuracy paint also makes a HUGE difference (marbalizers to monster balls). Also tippmanns do not have to be completely disasembled to clean and oil. All you have to do is put a few drops of oil in the asa. I do believe that electro's are less reliable because I have NEVER had to have a "pro-shop" work on my gun, yet EVERY time I'm in there I see them working with "spaceguns" this is because they're designed for speedball not woodsball. I do think that many can survive woodsball just as good as any tippmann I just don't see that as much.
The hardest enemy to defeat is the one you cannot find.

0

#6 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

  • Thrilling Heroics
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,237
  • Joined: 10-May 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whitehorse, Yukon
  • Brigade Name:Marauder_Pilot

Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:04 PM

Ok, one-dropping oil in the ASA does NOT constitute 'basic maintenance'. Oiling the main moving parts constitutes basic maintenance. Just dropping oil in will wreck your marker if you never oil it properly.

Second, have you ever watched a speedball game? If so, then you know that a marker takes a LOT more abuse then any woodsball gun. I play woodsball and speedball, and I've done more damage to them in 5-minute speedball games then 2-hour scenarios. Third, the reason you see high-ends in the shop is because a Tippmann is cheap enough that, when it breaks, you just buy a new one. When you dump $200 on a marker, you maybe tinker with it, but probably get a new one. When you spend $600, you get it fixed. Plus, the majority of semi-serious paintballers don't shoot a Tippmann-most people upgrade.

The 'I see a bunch of (this kind) in my proshop getting fixed' argument is horrible. I don't see any Yugos getting fixed at the mechanics across the street, does that make the Yugo a good car? No, that means nobody around here owns a Yugo.

No gun is 'designed' for one type or another. This is a myth propagated by companies like Opsgear and SpecOps to sell their, by-and-large pointless, A-5 and 98C bolt-ons.
0

#7 User is offline   Galihad 

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,027
  • Joined: 25-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma
  • Brigade Name:Galihad

Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:45 PM

while I agree with you that electros can be much easier to maintain I must make at least a small argument for the tippmanns out there

A-5's and X-7's can technically be bolt out back since when you remove the butt plate the bolt will come out

however you also have to remove the tombstone to get to the front bolt in my bolt out back idea

anyways, it is also true that you usually don't see Tippmanns in a pro shop getting work done, the reason?

the parts cost about as much as the service would, and Tippmanns are easy enough to fix yourself

and another reason for the 'woodsball marker' misconception is that some people refuse to take their higher end markers into the woods

so Tippmanns fill the gap with guns you don't mind taking into the woods and getting it torn up though its very true speedballers thrash their guns alot more
Christian paintballers -beating the hell out of satan with tiny balls-
Sabre #117
My feedback!:click here
0

#8 User is offline   WardenWolf 

  • Aspie Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,553
  • Joined: 29-September 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Phoenix, AZ
  • Brigade Name:WardenWolf

Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:50 PM

Very nice information. Easy to read and understand, and very valuable for new players. I think this deserves a sticky, at least for now.

Kanye: "Yo, Chile, I'm gonna let you finish shakin', but I just got to say Haiti had one of the best earthquakes of all time!"
Save a tree: wipe your ass with a hippie!
0

#9 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

  • Thrilling Heroics
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,237
  • Joined: 10-May 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whitehorse, Yukon
  • Brigade Name:Marauder_Pilot

Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:26 PM

View PostGalihad, on Nov 3 2007, 03:45 PM, said:

A-5's and X-7's can technically be bolt out back since when you remove the butt plate the bolt will come out

however you also have to remove the tombstone to get to the front bolt in my bolt out back idea


That is true, but it's a gigantic pain to deal with. Whenever I tried that, it took me several minutes to pull it out, tooled around with it to try and get it to keep coherency, then took several minutes to cram it back in. I found it faster to split my A-5 then to try and bolt out the back.

With my 'Cocker, I remove a pin, slide the bolt out, lube it, put it back in, put the pin back in, and it's good to go. Under a minute.
0

#10 User is offline   WardenWolf 

  • Aspie Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,553
  • Joined: 29-September 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Phoenix, AZ
  • Brigade Name:WardenWolf

Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:53 PM

Automags are very easily serviced as well. Remove 1 thumbscrew, pull the entire valve and guts of the gun out the back in 1 big piece, and do anything you want. I did a full rebuild on one in under 5 minutes at the field. Oil isn't really something they need much of, either. Just a bit in the ASA every now and then.

Myth: Tippmanns are the most durable and the most easily maintenanced.

The truth: Tippmanns are durable, and maintenance isn't that bad, but their clamshell halves and countless screws mean disassembly and maintenance is much more difficult than other guns such as Automags and even some electros. They're honestly no more durable (and slightly less reliable) than a classic Automag, too. What Tippmanns have is customization and low price. You can change it up to suit your personality. Not to say you can't do that with other markers, but not to the extent Tippmanns can. They're cheap, and you can build as you go. Overall, they're a pretty attractive package, and despite my Automags and other guns I still find myself wanting an X-7.

This post has been edited by WardenWolf: 03 November 2007 - 04:54 PM


Kanye: "Yo, Chile, I'm gonna let you finish shakin', but I just got to say Haiti had one of the best earthquakes of all time!"
Save a tree: wipe your ass with a hippie!
0

#11 User is offline   nickanator8 

  • tough guys dance, tougher guys dance ballet
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 285
  • Joined: 24-September 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:tecumseh mi.
  • Brigade Name:nickanator8

Posted 03 November 2007 - 06:28 PM

i knew this was going to be a sticky, i just knew it.

also, great advice. i cant really argue anything accept that even though tippys are a little harder to de/re gut, you dont have to do it as often as speedball markers. the reason: tippys are low maintenance and speedball markers are higher maintenance. easy as that. though i do agree that the speedball markers are easier to clean/oil.
click here for the Big Forum Tresure Hunt
If you are a Christian paintballer then put this in your sig | If you dance put this in your sig |98% of people on this forum will say that Tippmann pwns all. If you are one of the 98% that agrees put this in your sig. | if you are one of the people who arnt against smart parts put this in your sig | 92% of the teen population would be dead if Abercrombie and Fitch said breathing wasn't cool. If you are of the 8% that would be laughin your butt off, put this in your sig | put this is your sig if your left handed
0

#12 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

  • Thrilling Heroics
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,237
  • Joined: 10-May 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whitehorse, Yukon
  • Brigade Name:Marauder_Pilot

Posted 03 November 2007 - 06:40 PM

Again, wrong. Both Tippmanns and electros need to be oiled after each day of play. However, you should NEVER have to completely disassemble a high-end-under normal use, you'll never mess it up that bad.
Yes, if you leave an electro and a Tippmann in a box with no oil, the Tippmann will shoot when you gas it up and the electro will probably not. However, anybody who doesn't want to flush money down the toilet can take a minute per day of play to oil their gun.

Again, with both my A-5 and my 'Cocker, I broke them down after each day of play. Breaking down the 'Cocker consisted of taking out the battery to charge it, wiping the paint out and oiling the bolt. The Tippmann needed batteries charged, complete breakdown, oiling a lot more moving parts, cleaning the paint out, and re-assembling the whole thing. The 'Cocker takes 2 minutes, the A-5 was a half-hour ordeal.
0

#13 User is offline   Ruckus Fox 

  • Cutie! ^-^
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,476
  • Joined: 23-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Dakota
  • Brigade Name:Ruckus Fox

Posted 03 November 2007 - 09:08 PM

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 08:49 AM, said:

Alright, I've noticed that, among both newbies and seasoned veterans, there are a bunch of common misconceptions about various paintball guns and gear. So, in the interest of informing the uninformed and helping everybody make better decisions when buying a gun.

1) Marker (x) shoots further then marker (y).
More often then not, this takes the form of either a) Autocockers, B) milsim guns or c) guns with longer barrels shoot further. This is false. There are only two ways to increase the range of your paintball gun-the Tippmann Flatline barrel, available for 98Cs, A-5s and X-7s, and the BT Apex Barrel, which can be gotten in A-5, 98C, Ion, Autococker, Spyder and other threads. The tip can also be adapted to fit on any barrel. However, Apexs and Flatlines notwithstanding, any marker shooting the same velocity will fire a paintball the same difference.
Now, there will be variations, depending on weather, velocity of the individual shot (more on that later), good paint-to-barrel match (more on that later) and paint quality, but, give-or-take a meter or two, they'll all go the same difference.

Correct

2) Longer barrels increase accuracy.
This is true, to an extent. The idea length is between 12" and 14". Before 12", you lose some accuracy, beyond 14", you're losing air efficiency. However, the barrel length is the most minute factor in determining the accuracy of a paintball gun. Bore matching and consistency do far more then barrel length.

False. Barrel accuracy is NOT maxed at 12". Each barrel is unique, keep that in mind when purchasing. Some barrels may "suck" at 8 inches while others are excellent at 8 inches. It is more than likely because barrel A sucks in general.

3) Increasing accuracy:
There are three factors you can modify on any paintgun to increase accuracy. Barrel length, paint-bore match and consistency. Barrel length was already covered. Paint-bore match is the process of ensuring a good fit with the paint and the barrel. This is most often achieved with a barrel kit-they usually have a selection of 6" backs with different diameters to match the paint (Since paint can vary from anywhere between 0.67" and 0.69" in diameter) and assorted different length fronts. Barrel kits usually run in the $80-$150 range. A cheaper method is to simply buy a single barrel of a particular bore to match the paint you usually use. Most barrels are available in different bores.
The third factor is consistency. This the most important factor. A paintball travelling through the same gun at the same velocity will land in the same spot every time, assuming consistent weather. However, no gun ever gets perfect accuracy. With a blowback and an unregulated CO2 tank, you can see up to +/-12 FPS. With an electropneumatic running with a good regulator and good HPA tank, you can see +/-1 FPS. On most guns, all you can do is add a regulator and a decent HPA tank. For tanks, Draxxus, MacDev, Crossfire and Pure Energy are good choices. However, any tank will be good. For regulators, by-and-large they all operate pretty similar. On a high-end gun, you don't really need to upgrade the regulator. The only one I'll specifically mention is the Palmer's Stabilizer, which is the best choice for a gun that runs on CO2, since, unlike most regulators, they eat liquid CO2 for breakfast.

False and Falser. Paint to bore match is a myth. True, there is difference from using the smallest bore and the largest bore, but finalizing it down to the very edge to gain an extra edge is purely myth. Really, it's the mentality of the thing. If you want to spend $150 extra just so you can think you're shooting more accurately, be my guest. I already have that same effect with my "mind over matter" approach.

You are -very- wrong with the idea that a paintball will land in an identical place each time shot given that the conditions are the same. You are shooting spherical shells. Nothing is ever the same. That's not only a myth, that's down right false.

As for fluxuation in air pressure, that is also untrue. CO2 tanks only have hiccups during hot weather due to unbalanced pressure on the inside and outside of the tank. This is because CO2 is stored in a liquid state, while HPA is stored as a gaseous form at all times. It also depends on what kind of output you have.


4) Closed Bolt Accuracy:
In the older days of paintball, the consistent accuracy of closed-bolt guns, namely Autocockers, perpetuated the myth that closed-bolt guns were more accurate. A closed-bolt gun is any gun that keeps the bolt forward when in 'rest' position. However, this myth came out of one of the downfalls of the closed-bolt designs. Since closed-bolt designs didn't have detents to prevent balls from rolling out of the breech, they required a perfect paint-barrel match just to keep paint in the gun. However, since they had good matches, this gave them their legendary accuracy.

Correct

5) Electros are unreliable:
No. A lot of people on here will tell you that an electro is unreliable, and that the woods will eat them for breakfast. This is totally wrong. For one, electro guns are, by-and-large, built better then the Tippmanns most people compare them against. They're milled from solid blocks of aluminum, Tippmanns are smelted and cast. Also, they're easier to do basic maintenance on. A Tippmann requires that you break it completely open, oil it down, and put it back together. Electros usually have one-bolt removal for the bolt (Bolt-out back-you remove a screw or two, with an allen key, and the whole assembly pulls right out). You pull it out, grease it up, and put it back in. The grips are, when in your hand, effectively sealed. Unless you submerge it for a long period of time, you'll never trash the electronics. Anybody who claims that they're unreliable has never spent time with one, and is working off of old stereotypes long incorrect.

Correct, just don't drop it into a puddle or something. Remove the batteries when cleaning with water.

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, and I'll come to them when I remember them. But I've covered the important ones here.


There are some revisions. Please do a little more homework next time.

--Ruckus
0

#14 User is offline   piccardalpha3 

  • dragonzord pwns
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 120
  • Joined: 01-March 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:mass
  • Brigade Name:piccardalpha3

Posted 03 November 2007 - 09:27 PM

yes it is true that ippmanns are a little harder to take aprt and oil and clean but for what it is worth they are easy t opick up and shoot straight from the box as opposed to when i got my iion i had toopen the grip program it the way i needed and fnd a battery to put in it
0

#15 User is offline   Marauder_Pilot 

  • Thrilling Heroics
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,237
  • Joined: 10-May 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whitehorse, Yukon
  • Brigade Name:Marauder_Pilot

Posted 03 November 2007 - 09:39 PM

View PostRuckus Fox, on Nov 3 2007, 09:08 PM, said:

View PostMarauder_Pilot, on Nov 3 2007, 08:49 AM, said:

3) Increasing accuracy:
There are three factors you can modify on any paintgun to increase accuracy. Barrel length, paint-bore match and consistency. Barrel length was already covered. Paint-bore match is the process of ensuring a good fit with the paint and the barrel. This is most often achieved with a barrel kit-they usually have a selection of 6" backs with different diameters to match the paint (Since paint can vary from anywhere between 0.67" and 0.69" in diameter) and assorted different length fronts. Barrel kits usually run in the $80-$150 range. A cheaper method is to simply buy a single barrel of a particular bore to match the paint you usually use. Most barrels are available in different bores.
The third factor is consistency. This the most important factor. A paintball travelling through the same gun at the same velocity will land in the same spot every time, assuming consistent weather. However, no gun ever gets perfect accuracy. With a blowback and an unregulated CO2 tank, you can see up to +/-12 FPS. With an electropneumatic running with a good regulator and good HPA tank, you can see +/-1 FPS. On most guns, all you can do is add a regulator and a decent HPA tank. For tanks, Draxxus, MacDev, Crossfire and Pure Energy are good choices. However, any tank will be good. For regulators, by-and-large they all operate pretty similar. On a high-end gun, you don't really need to upgrade the regulator. The only one I'll specifically mention is the Palmer's Stabilizer, which is the best choice for a gun that runs on CO2, since, unlike most regulators, they eat liquid CO2 for breakfast.

False and Falser. Paint to bore match is a myth. True, there is difference from using the smallest bore and the largest bore, but finalizing it down to the very edge to gain an extra edge is purely myth. Really, it's the mentality of the thing. If you want to spend $150 extra just so you can think you're shooting more accurately, be my guest. I already have that same effect with my "mind over matter" approach.

You are -very- wrong with the idea that a paintball will land in an identical place each time shot given that the conditions are the same. You are shooting spherical shells. Nothing is ever the same. That's not only a myth, that's down right false.

As for fluxuation in air pressure, that is also untrue. CO2 tanks only have hiccups during hot weather due to unbalanced pressure on the inside and outside of the tank. This is because CO2 is stored in a liquid state, while HPA is stored as a gaseous form at all times. It also depends on what kind of output you have.


Re: bore matching. I DID do the research. Or, rather, Tom Kaye did it for me.. I'm more inclined to believe the research of one of the smartest men in the industry, my own personal findings and 20+ years of proof made every single day. Yes, matching it perfectly is overkill, and the minute gains amount to roughly nothing. However, matching the bore is important.
And, obviously, I didn't mean the *exact* same place every single time with the accuracy of a finely-toned, real-world firearm. Since everybody knows that a paintball gun can never hope to match that accuracy. However, it'll get pretty damn close. Functionally equivalent to the same shot each time.

I've never, ever shot a CO2 tank in 'hot' weather. The hottest day I've ever fired a CO2 tank on was a summer day in Whitehorse, around 18C. I saw +/- 12 FPS off of my A-5. Hell, I've seen +/- 100, but that was a broken gun, so it hardly counts. :laugh:
My point is that unregulated CO2 fluctuates. It's variable according to a metric fluffton of factors-weather conditions, atmospheric pressure, quality of the tank, quality of the valve, pressure in the tank, design of the marker's valve...but, whatever the reason, it will fluctuate.
0

Share this topic:


  • (11 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users