Special Ops Paintball: First day of Stock Class play (The 12 grams for me) - Special Ops Paintball

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First day of Stock Class play (The 12 grams for me) A couple of questions... Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:24 PM

Hey guys!

I just took out my Phantom VSC and played stock class for the first time today (I normally use a 13ci HPA tank with my feed tube), but I have a couple of questions if you have some tips:

1) I was shooting at 280-285 (Phantom manual says 280 is optimal) - what speed is most efficient for 12g cartridges? I know the VSC setup is less efficient, so I'd like to get a couple more decent velocity shots before I change out. I didn't get an exact count (forgot to at the end) but it was 20 or less.

2) Where is a good place to buy them (preferably in Canada)? I got 15 from WalMart for $11.50 ($1.30 ea) and my local field would've charged $2 ea.

3) A couple times my hand wandered to the CO2 bucket when I was walking to a field (it just seems too much like a foregrip sometimes :P) and I blew some CO2 out by accident. It takes very little force to lose the seal, any tips (besides staying away from it! haha)?

All in all, a fun experience - except when I lost my feedgate during a game -_-

I laughed a bit inside at one fellow with a speedball gun, as his contemptuous statement to my friend (which he didn't know was my friend) was "I'll take ROF over accuracy any day." - actually, it was quite loud and I definitely heard. Anyways, a couple gog shots hopefully taught him a little lesson. Not that I'm a pro yet, but I'm getting better!
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#2 User is offline   Puzuma 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:04 PM

For 12g... Check Canadian tire. Copperehad powelettes. 40 to a case for $29.99 + tx. works out to about $0.85 each.
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#3 User is offline   Wh0pp3r 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:07 PM

#1 Im not quite sure what you mean when you say "what speed is most effecient for 12g cartridges?" but the lower your velocity the less gas is used and vice versa. Also remember that the temperature has a huge effect on CO2. Another thing is "shoot down" and don't quote me on this but Im pretty sure the faster you shoot the less effeciency you get. Not sure if that applies with your Phantom but all I know is that with my T9 I get better effeciency if I wait 3-5 seconds between each shot than if I double tap or use rapid fire.

#2 I've only found the Crossman 12 grams in Edmonton (that being said I haven't bothered searching for anything else). They aren't the best from what I know as they have very inconsistent fills. If you ever come across Leland 12 grams they are supposedly the best that you can buy.

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#4 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:44 PM

View PostWh0pp3r, on 16 August 2010 - 03:07 PM, said:

#1 Im not quite sure what you mean when you say "what speed is most effecient for 12g cartridges?" but the lower your velocity the less gas is used and vice versa. Also remember that the temperature has a huge effect on CO2. Another thing is "shoot down" and don't quote me on this but Im pretty sure the faster you shoot the less effeciency you get. Not sure if that applies with your Phantom but all I know is that with my T9 I get better effeciency if I wait 3-5 seconds between each shot than if I double tap or use rapid fire.

#2 I've only found the Crossman 12 grams in Edmonton (that being said I haven't bothered searching for anything else). They aren't the best from what I know as they have very inconsistent fills. If you ever come across Leland 12 grams they are supposedly the best that you can buy.

Good luck!


Sorry I should have said "What speed will I still get a lot of shots off and still get breaks more often than not?" Ie. 260 fps or something :P I suppose it depends on what range I'm hitting people, but 260 doesn't sound too bad.


And thanks Puz! - they were Copperheads at WalMart too. I'll probably look into that more come next summer as I doubt I'll play as much as twice during the winter (and CO2 will suck in the cold).
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#5 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:28 PM

Canadian tire is our friend, coppa heads are good. they dont have oily fills either. its clean and consistent 12ie to 12ie.
(at least that i'v found)

250 is the magic break number. anything under and it starts to have a tendency to bounce.
you want as many shots above 250, but below the fields limit ( most at 280 in Ontario)

This post has been edited by Eskimo: 16 August 2010 - 03:33 PM

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#6 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:06 PM

Yeah, it's 290 at my main field :)

Hah so I just realised my math skills are as sharp as a rusty spoon :P $11.50/15 = $0.7666 per 12ie (Not $1.30) so really not much more than Cad Tire :P they didn't have many boxes though so Canadian Tire is probably a good choice (plus bigger boxes).
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#7 User is offline   Iron__Man 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 11:01 PM

im not 100% savvy with the pumps, but i do know if you use a heavier spring it helps you lower the amount of air per shot via adjusting velocity. physics wise its using the energy of the spring to push the ball just as hard if not a little harder with less emphasis on the air.

my question is why hassle with the 12 grams and not use the slightly larger disposables? idk their exact name or size but they're like the overgrown looking 12grams in walmart. it would seem like less fumbling with the smaller cartridges, still small and lightweight, still disposable, but more time between changing air.

This post has been edited by Iron__Man: 16 August 2010 - 11:02 PM

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#8 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 11:14 PM

View Postcdrinkh20, on 16 August 2010 - 04:24 PM, said:

Hey guys!

I just took out my Phantom VSC and played stock class for the first time today (I normally use a 13ci HPA tank with my feed tube), but I have a couple of questions if you have some tips:

1) I was shooting at 280-285 (Phantom manual says 280 is optimal) - what speed is most efficient for 12g cartridges? I know the VSC setup is less efficient, so I'd like to get a couple more decent velocity shots before I change out. I didn't get an exact count (forgot to at the end) but it was 20 or less.

Shooting down at 260 fps instead of 280 fps will give you a handful more shots. Don't go much lower then that unless you only intend on engaging at very close distances. Long shots will just bounce adn frustrate you. Also, like was said, shoot slowly. Hammering out rounds will eat CO2 faster. Waiting 3-5 seconds in between shots is ideal. As is playing in warmer weather, where the co2 will work better. AT'ing, not that you can with an SC feed, will just eat up CO2 like me at an all you can eat chinese buffet. XD

2) Where is a good place to buy them (preferably in Canada)? I got 15 from WalMart for $11.50 ($1.30 ea) and my local field would've charged $2 ea.

The best ones you can get are Leland, but you can only order them online, and they cost a bit more then BE, copperheads, and crossmans. They are FAR more consitent though. There is also a food grade co2 12 gram that a lot of serious guys on MCB use, but i can't for the life of me think it's name. If you want the best, most consistent, and most consistently filled get these or Lelands. Anything else you are taking bets. I have gotten duds, like not even filled from BE, crossmann and copperhead before. As well as just half filled, or cap of it isn't the same length on all of them, so some puncture wierd. All sorts of weird issues. Yes they will work fine, you can use them, but they aren't all created equal.

3) A couple times my hand wandered to the CO2 bucket when I was walking to a field (it just seems too much like a foregrip sometimes :P) and I blew some CO2 out by accident. It takes very little force to lose the seal, any tips (besides staying away from it! haha)?

There is this thing called the Pump Handle. Keep your hand on it at all times unless you are reloading, as a nelson won't fire unless the pump handle is all the way forward. ;) Many people put AGD Bike grips on their changers to make em more comfy. :D Just don't twist your hand with it on there. LOL

All in all, a fun experience - except when I lost my feedgate during a game -_-

They are cheap, order 3 or so, for a buck and change. Well worth it. They are quite hardy, but can break, tear, and get lost. Easy to replace and well worth having spares, as the day is ruined when you lose one and you don't have an extra. There is the old rubber band trick to try to hold it over the end as a quasi replacement til you get a new one.

I laughed a bit inside at one fellow with a speedball gun, as his contemptuous statement to my friend (which he didn't know was my friend) was "I'll take ROF over accuracy any day." - actually, it was quite loud and I definitely heard. Anyways, a couple gog shots hopefully taught him a little lesson. Not that I'm a pro yet, but I'm getting better!

I'll take the tortoise over the hare anyday...taht hare makes damn good soup. :D

This post has been edited by Legato: 16 August 2010 - 11:16 PM

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#9 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:02 AM

View PostIron__Man, on 17 August 2010 - 12:01 AM, said:

im not 100% savvy with the pumps, but i do know if you use a heavier spring it helps you lower the amount of air per shot via adjusting velocity. physics wise its using the energy of the spring to push the ball just as hard if not a little harder with less emphasis on the air.

my question is why hassle with the 12 grams and not use the slightly larger disposables? idk their exact name or size but they're like the overgrown looking 12grams in walmart. it would seem like less fumbling with the smaller cartridges, still small and lightweight, still disposable, but more time between changing air.


Whole point is that is how paintball was originally played - stock class feed tubes and 12 gram disposables. I could play with my 13/3000 HPA tank, but choose not to for now. :)

So what I'm thinking is I might chrono for 270 to get the middle ground - more consistent breaks than 260, and a few more shots than 280+. I did find that feedgate, btw ;) Good idea to order more though. I'll have to look up Leland's in a bit.

As for twisting the bucket by accident, it might be because my T-Stock is set a little long so unless I'm holding my Phantom up in an aiming position (or straight down while running), it is a bit of stretch to reach the pump. However, I believe I set it that way so the feed tube is about 1-2 inches from my mask, so that may not work. (It mostly happened when I was walking between games and carrying my Phantom in a relaxed way).
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#10 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:40 AM

I usually play around the 265-270 range.

And yes bring your stock in just a bit so holding your gun in the fire position is comfy.
You want your arms not fully extended at the end of the pump. If you are over extending you pump hand everytime you will actually be changing your aim and pulling off to the side and down during autotrigger times.
Mine is set so the feed tube nearly touches my my mask during use. I actually have to think if I look off to my gun side so I do not smack the lens...and thinking is not a strong point of mine so I repeatedly hit the feed tube. But hey it is comfy there!

What part of the gate did you loose?
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#11 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:54 AM

View PostKrazy8, on 17 August 2010 - 10:40 AM, said:

I usually play around the 265-270 range.

And yes bring your stock in just a bit so holding your gun in the fire position is comfy.
You want your arms not fully extended at the end of the pump. If you are over extending you pump hand everytime you will actually be changing your aim and pulling off to the side and down during autotrigger times.
Mine is set so the feed tube nearly touches my my mask during use. I actually have to think if I look off to my gun side so I do not smack the lens...and thinking is not a strong point of mine so I repeatedly hit the feed tube. But hey it is comfy there!

What part of the gate did you loose?


The whole black piece around the end of the feed tube :P
Actually, I figure I could just walk without holding the stock on my shoulder and just cradle it and I shouldn't have a problem haha :) It's not fully extended just that holding it out that way for a long period when I don't have need would probably tire me out later.

Plus, I only bought the one body so I can't effectively autotrigger ;)
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#12 User is offline   Krazy8 

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 03:06 PM

Oh...trust me...you can autotrigger in stock class...and it can be quite effective in ruining Johhny Braggarts self esteem to get hit three times by a pump!
And there is a whole new level of smile that covers your face when you are accused of overshooting...only to have the player find out you are shooting a VSC Phantom and the field owner/ref just starts laughing. That right there pays for the gun in my opinion...

I have another gun coming in soon...would you like replacement parts?

This post has been edited by Krazy8: 17 August 2010 - 03:11 PM

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#13 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:25 PM

If you keep hitting the changer and moving it you could consider getting a 12 gram lever changing stock and use it from the bottom line or backbottle position. Yeah you will lose a few more shots going bottomline due to the travel distance to the valve, but if it has a check valve working still, you will be fine should someone try to bunker you. Then you can make the vert asa a gas thru grip or just a normal grip and run a line from the VSC valve body to the bottomline.

Mounting a 12 gram stock to a back bottle just feels better though. An AGD Micro CA I or II, ACI Power Stock, a ACI Turret Stock, or AGD Six Pack will all work quite well and are quite comfy. Even with my long arms they feel good in my hands. They are harder to come by nowadays, but can always be found. Only issue you would have is getting seals for them as ACI Is around no more IIRC and AGD hasn't had parts for their changers in years. Most have the check valves disabled, but some still work if you hunt around. Check valve seals off the 12 gram after every shot. So when you go to change 12 grams, you still have 1 shot left in the lines. So if someone goes to bunker you, you can still shoot them and defend yourself before you put a new 12ie in.

WGP also made a slam changer, you can get those for around the same price as the Micro CA and Power Stocks, $75-$100. Slam changer wasn't a stock, just a slot to drop a 12 gram in, and you'd slam the back handle to puncture the 12ie. Very safe and easy.


View Postcdrinkh20, on 17 August 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

The whole black piece around the end of the feed tube :P
Plus, I only bought the one body so I can't effectively autotrigger ;)

oh thought you just lost the rubber gate. AH...yeah....you can buy a new delrin one, and use a wrap of tape around the end of the tube to snug it up more. Or you can buy an aluminum one from Rodney at RTR that he uses in the gargoyles. If you break the rubber gate on em, they are slotted so you can just wrap a rubber band around them as a temporary fix so balls don't roll out

And like Krazy said, one can most definitly AT with an SC marker, it just takes skill and attention. And really helps if shooting downhill. :D I can whip out a double shot fast with a nelson, triple takes some effort to not shoot into the ground though

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#14 User is offline   Pirate 

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:51 AM

View PostLegato, on 17 August 2010 - 12:14 AM, said:

I'll take the tortoise over the hare anyday...taht hare makes damn good soup. :D

Clearly you've never had a good Turtle Soup :P
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#15 User is offline   Legato 

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 01:17 AM

View PostPirate, on 18 August 2010 - 03:51 AM, said:

View PostLegato, on 17 August 2010 - 12:14 AM, said:

I'll take the tortoise over the hare anyday...taht hare makes damn good soup. :D

Clearly you've never had a good Turtle Soup :P


sadly i have never had either. I could never eat a turtle...they are too cute and slow and i'd feel awful. Bunny i'd feel bad too...but they are supposed to be yummy...so i'll get over it
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