Special Ops Paintball: War Stories 13 - Campers - Special Ops Paintball

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War Stories 13 - Campers Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 06:33 PM



So this week, we talk about "camping", and how sometimes it's not a bad thing. see, I'm not a first person shooter player, but I hear people SCREAMING all the time about "campers" in paintball, like it's an insult. I think it's not, and I relate a quick story about one of the reasons I don't think it's all bad.

Let the hate mail commence.

Comments, hateful or otherwise, always welcome.

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This post has been edited by Tyger: 10 November 2010 - 06:34 PM

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#2 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 07:23 PM

Camping has its uses..

like when your team keeps getting crap kicked out of them and the refs dont shuffle some people around to help even the odds..

but then again this one field has a thing for enforcing "no camping" when its not even listed as a rule... :dodgy:
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#3 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:08 PM

Dude I love me my tent.

I love other people with tents.

sometimes I go to their camp sites and we pitch our tents beside each other and joke and laugh as we play paintball.


wait....



No yea thats right.
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#4 User is offline   Chem Daddy 

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 09:11 AM

Thinking!!??? There's no thinking in paintball!!!1!
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#5 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 07:23 AM

I have been called a 'camper' for defending an objective. Not sure how that works, but paintball is not an fps. Locking down a section of the field and holding your position is tactically sound, and therefore not something to be banned or mocked.
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#6 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 10:24 AM

What frustrated me to no end when I first started playing was on this one field called "Main Street" at my local field...I trusted the experienced players with their full automatics that said: "This field is too big when there are this many people, so we usually enforce the rule you can't go outside the town."

Seemed reasonable enough, I'd never played it. This was just walk-on play, keep in mind - no objectives, just elimination.

So, layout: basically, it's 12 buildings lined up in two columns of 6 with a thick street in between the two rows, as well as a crossroad in between the third buildings up and the other side's third building. The difference is, the doors at the third building of each side are straight across from each other, and so is the door at the rear of the third building. They all line up, so effectively, you can cover the entrance to the third building from the entrance of your third building.

Windows only face the middle street (not the opposing team's buildings), except for a couple that face the "outside" of the town.

However, as you can guess, the centre street of the town sucks for cover - there are like, 2 cars in the centre (in between the two 'third' buildings....

Here's a crappy picture to illustrate (no, that isn't all the doors, windows, or cars). Rectangles are buildings, parallel lines are doors, triangles are windows, circles are cars. And yes, there are some second floor windows as well (though I hate using them as there is only a single staircase down and it's just a platform, not a whole other floor - someone comes in the building I'm not gonna risk my neck trying to ride my butt down the stairs)!

Essentially, I learned (when playing this way) that the best way to have any chance of winning was to get to the third buildings first. From there, they can't effectively move up further and they have a hard time shooting back. If my team didn't make it there first, I wasn't very practiced at snap shooting yet so I couldn't do much from there, and our only hope was coordinated teamwork. LOL, not likely to follow me at that point :P

Essentially, it turns into a bunch of rentals hiding and shooting from their hiding spot unless the outsides are open because it just turns into people wasting a lot of paint without hitting anything - if we open up even 3 feet along the outsides though, I can flank much more effectively. I do it with my Phantom all the time now, and if I'm hit because there's no cover on the sides, then good on them for checking their flank.

The frustrating thing is that's how people with full-auto like to play it - sides closed off.

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EDIT: In scenarios though, totally agree. There are several angles of attack and other maneuvers possible, it's just in games like this the bounds are so close together it becomes people just sitting tight and waiting for someone on the other team to get hit so you have a chance to move up.

Essentially, if "camping" is a means to an end-goal of covering someone's advance, sure, it's a fair strategy...if you're camping for the sake of sitting there so there's little risk to yourself because you just want kills without effort or skill...that's a different story. :dry:

This post has been edited by cdrinkh20: 13 November 2010 - 12:38 PM

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#7 User is offline   Dr. Wiggy 

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 07:41 PM

Camping is one of the MOST effective tactics you can use in a paintball game.

(Under the proper circumstances)

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#8 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:50 AM

View PostDr. Wiggy, on 13 November 2010 - 07:41 PM, said:

Camping is one of the MOST effective tactics you can use in a paintball game.

(Under the proper circumstances)

God Bless,
Doc



Haha disclaimer :P I still think it's unfair to use it under certain circumstances...

It can be a useful tactic for defending an outpost, true, or a choke point...but in scenarios they have the option to go through brush and flank, or go another way - do unconventional things.

But in my case, I'd be "cheating" to go around the outside wall of any of the buildings in "Main Street" rather than go through essentially 3 doors before I can get close enough to flank...or go up the center and get pummeled by people on the other side.

People with automatics (don't mean to be all-encompassing) seem to enjoy rules like that -_- ... I remember I brought a friend for his first day of play, I was using my pump for second time...and 4 guys with full auto (most of which at my field will offer to switch to semi in this scenario) decide to form a team and play against me, my buddy, and 2 more rentals...sound fair? Wait - they want to play a game where you only go out after you can't take any more pain...

So what do I do, shoot them in the nuts and then Autotrigger into the back of their head while they are down?

Some people just like to take unfair advantages rather than play the game. Even thinking of Tyger's last video about the "No Headshot" rule and the one fellow who sits down behind a bunker with his head and gun resting on it and just fires away...that's a good example of unfair "camping".

Yes, there are ways to beat campers - but often, these strategies are made much easier with a cooperative, coordinated team. These don't come by every day in walk-on play, unfortunately.

EDIT: Lol, 666 posts.

This post has been edited by cdrinkh20: 14 November 2010 - 03:43 PM

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#9 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 06:37 PM

View Postcdrinkh20, on 14 November 2010 - 02:50 AM, said:

Some people just like to take unfair advantages rather than play the game. Even thinking of Tyger's last video about the "No Headshot" rule and the one fellow who sits down behind a bunker with his head and gun resting on it and just fires away...that's a good example of unfair "camping".


Also, your story goes back to his 'dumbing it down' and 'rule bending' videos as well. People just want to go out, forget strategy, and hose paint at each other like its COD or halo. Just as people use hacks in video games, people are going to try to make the rules suit them.

Disclaimer: I am only comparing Paintball to a videogame because it is convenient in this situation. Paintball is by 100% better than videogames. That is all.
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#10 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:08 PM

View PostInvictusone, on 14 November 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

View Postcdrinkh20, on 14 November 2010 - 02:50 AM, said:

Some people just like to take unfair advantages rather than play the game. Even thinking of Tyger's last video about the "No Headshot" rule and the one fellow who sits down behind a bunker with his head and gun resting on it and just fires away...that's a good example of unfair "camping".


Also, your story goes back to his 'dumbing it down' and 'rule bending' videos as well. People just want to go out, forget strategy, and hose paint at each other like its COD or halo. Just as people use hacks in video games, people are going to try to make the rules suit them.

Disclaimer: I am only comparing Paintball to a videogame because it is convenient in this situation. Paintball is by 100% better than videogames. That is all.


Grr...mumble...grr...corner spawn camping with claymores and noob-tubing with juggernaut...grrr... lol.

This post has been edited by cdrinkh20: 14 November 2010 - 08:28 PM

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#11 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:00 AM

View PostInvictusone, on 14 November 2010 - 07:37 PM, said:

Also, your story goes back to his 'dumbing it down' and 'rule bending' videos as well. People just want to go out, forget strategy, and hose paint at each other like its COD or halo. Just as people use hacks in video games, people are going to try to make the rules suit them.


What I'm finding is that most people want a few things.

The "best" gun.
The "key spots" on the map.
"More ammo" and "More powerful shots" for range.

And hen let 'em loose to run the map a while, it's all about individual glory. I had a ref almost fall over laughing when I grabbed a flag and didn't chase the other team down who was routing at the time. The game isn't important as much as ls YOU get, or how many things YOU do.

It's sad, really. Bugs me too. The other thing is that if YOU win, and they lose, obviously YOU did something wrong. You're a camper, you're cheating, you're the bad guy. Reference to a guy who called me an (censored for your protection) to my face because I crawled through the weeds and flanked him. Sad.

-Tyger
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#12 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:30 AM

View PostTyger, on 15 November 2010 - 12:00 AM, said:

View PostInvictusone, on 14 November 2010 - 07:37 PM, said:

Also, your story goes back to his 'dumbing it down' and 'rule bending' videos as well. People just want to go out, forget strategy, and hose paint at each other like its COD or halo. Just as people use hacks in video games, people are going to try to make the rules suit them.


What I'm finding is that most people want a few things.

The "best" gun.
The "key spots" on the map.
"More ammo" and "More powerful shots" for range.

And hen let 'em loose to run the map a while, it's all about individual glory. I had a ref almost fall over laughing when I grabbed a flag and didn't chase the other team down who was routing at the time. The game isn't important as much as ls YOU get, or how many things YOU do.

It's sad, really. Bugs me too. The other thing is that if YOU win, and they lose, obviously YOU did something wrong. You're a camper, you're cheating, you're the bad guy. Reference to a guy who called me an (censored for your protection) to my face because I crawled through the weeds and flanked him. Sad.

-Tyger


I think you hit it on the nose there Tyger - people are definitely taking that state of mind from video games (IMO). Used to run into that attitude every time I gamed. Capture the Flag? How about we run around and focus purely on hunting the other team, even though they are running into our base as a team and taking the flag?

Or, I even found it the first time I played Halo: Reach (I only ended up playing like 4 times :P)...new game type (Headhunter?), skulls drop from enemies you kill. You collect up to 10 at a time, and try to bring them to a "goal" that randomly appears around the map. If you die, you drop all the skulls you were carrying, blah blah blah...well I found every time that game came up, my team just didn't seem to understand they were supposed to get the skulls, so they just left them on the ground after they killed someone...they also made no efforts to help protect me or my friend when going for the goal, or targeted the skull carriers of their team, etc.

Same thing in CoD (MWF)... I could finish every other game with 35 kills and 2 deaths and our team would still lose almost every game...I just stopped caring and did the best I could myself or with a buddy.

It's much easier to get people to work with you in paintball than in video games (in most cases) - particularly because, if you get killed in a game, you're back in in under 5 seconds...a paintball game in the woods can go on for a while, and they are stuck on the side.
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#13 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:34 AM

I've been pretty fortunate in my overall experience w/ objective based paintball games, most times a lot of people are on board w/ what needs to happen & where our focus should be, i.e. we aren't playing "Team Deathmatch" right now. Open play days are usually a different story, you always have that one group of guys that want to flank right out into the woods when you are playing a centerflag game, you can try to reel them in to say our objective & the action is in the middle of town, not 200 yards out into the middle of nowhere. They'd rather camp out & hope for a couple of eliminations rather than get paint on their clothes.

Camping in an Attack/Defend objective (when you are defending) is perfectly acceptable, & should be expected. Many aggressive players may believe offense if the best defense & it has its place but anyone w/ that mentality shouldn't look down at those "camping" at the objective because they are the ones actually holding it.

My belief when playing is doing what you need to do to help your team win, regardless of your play style. If you like to hang back/defend & that helps your team win then do it - if you like to be aggressive/attack & that helps your team win then do it - if you like to be sneaky/flank & that helps your team win then do it. If however you are being overly aggressive & are out of position, or are flanking when you don't have the time, or are hanging back longballing when you should be 100' closer & any of that causes your team to lose then change up your strategy.

I think the "Me first" mentality can't be entirely blamed on video games, but the fps has most likely fed into it. There was a group of 4 of us playing Domination on COD this past week - for those who don't know: it's a game w/ 3 flags, the more flags you hold & the longer you hold them the more points you accumulate, first team to 200 wins. It was the 4 of us against 5 others, 3 of which were in a clan - we rolled them 200 to maybe 40. This proceeded for the next 8-10 games of them going 25/10 w/ one or no captures & us going 20/15 w/ 4 captures & us hating on them because they were using a Dom room to try to improve their k/d & letting the couple of unlucky guys who were getting put on their team get torn up when they tried to actually capture flags by themselves. Their basic argument was "Who cares about wins? I'm racking up kills!" - our reply was "Winning at Dom gets us double the points over you worrying about kills!" It was all about personal preference: they wanted their k/d ratio to look good, we wanted to hang w's & rank up faster.
ger
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#14 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:56 AM

View Postger, on 15 November 2010 - 10:34 AM, said:

I've been pretty fortunate in my overall experience w/ objective based paintball games, most times a lot of people are on board w/ what needs to happen & where our focus should be, i.e. we aren't playing "Team Deathmatch" right now. Open play days are usually a different story, you always have that one group of guys that want to flank right out into the woods when you are playing a centerflag game, you can try to reel them in to say our objective & the action is in the middle of town, not 200 yards out into the middle of nowhere. They'd rather camp out & hope for a couple of eliminations rather than get paint on their clothes.

Camping in an Attack/Defend objective (when you are defending) is perfectly acceptable, & should be expected. Many aggressive players may believe offense if the best defense & it has its place but anyone w/ that mentality shouldn't look down at those "camping" at the objective because they are the ones actually holding it.

My belief when playing is doing what you need to do to help your team win, regardless of your play style. If you like to hang back/defend & that helps your team win then do it - if you like to be aggressive/attack & that helps your team win then do it - if you like to be sneaky/flank & that helps your team win then do it. If however you are being overly aggressive & are out of position, or are flanking when you don't have the time, or are hanging back longballing when you should be 100' closer & any of that causes your team to lose then change up your strategy.

I think the "Me first" mentality can't be entirely blamed on video games, but the fps has most likely fed into it. There was a group of 4 of us playing Domination on COD this past week - for those who don't know: it's a game w/ 3 flags, the more flags you hold & the longer you hold them the more points you accumulate, first team to 200 wins. It was the 4 of us against 5 others, 3 of which were in a clan - we rolled them 200 to maybe 40. This proceeded for the next 8-10 games of them going 25/10 w/ one or no captures & us going 20/15 w/ 4 captures & us hating on them because they were using a Dom room to try to improve their k/d & letting the couple of unlucky guys who were getting put on their team get torn up when they tried to actually capture flags by themselves. Their basic argument was "Who cares about wins? I'm racking up kills!" - our reply was "Winning at Dom gets us double the points over you worrying about kills!" It was all about personal preference: they wanted their k/d ratio to look good, we wanted to hang w's & rank up faster.


Haha, yeah, that's why I stopped trying to do objective games in CoD - for me, since I can do really well and still not win (in TDM), I tend to place value in my ratio and raising it over time (I did well enough, started at about 1.20 in every game in CoD except MWF2, raised it to about 1.8 and kept it steady at that point...except MWF2 I started at about 1.8 and dropped steadily to keep it at about 1.5).

Basically, I got tired of the people you are describing who just sit back and wait around those flag areas without capturing so they can lob in grenades for easy multi-kills, etc.

People playing for themselves tend to ruin the spirit of team-based games I guess.

But back to paintball, what would you think of someone who just sits in a building, around a corner, facing a door you need to go through to advance, waiting to just pelt you from point blank because they don't want to expose themselves? That's the kind of stuff that irritates me in both games AND paintball.
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#15 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:15 PM

That's actually my problem. Paintball bills itself as a team game, and sells itself as an individual one.

We talk about how paintball is a game in which you build teamwork, work together and so on. Then look at the ads. "Buy this gun, stand out from the crowd, buy this gear and get noticed" is the message. It's about being the best player in a team event, which does not work for more than ego feeding.

Then again, I don't get the "agg" thing either, other than it seems to be about being the most individual person in a crowd. But I'm reminded of this poster a friend of mine had on his screen saver.

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