Special Ops Paintball: Games in Glouster, OHIO - Special Ops Paintball

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Games in Glouster, OHIO Rate Topic: ****- 3 Votes

#1231 User is offline   scoobshagg 

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 12:53 PM

Thanks for the advice on the Autococker guys, I appreciate it. I'll definitely be doing my homework before buying any marker any time soon.


Sean with all of us having a wide selection in our armories I would say buy a good mask first and barrow some markers off us and you can see what kind of marker suits the way you play. This will give you time to save up some money while trying various kinds of markers out at the same time. Just a thought.


Tim
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#1232 User is offline   Shazapp 

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 06:06 PM

Thanks for the help, guys. After shooting Tim's Tippmann 98 Custom (and finding it to be all I really need for now), I've been looking for one. I will definitely not skimp on the mask, though. I've been looking on eBay and craigslist and just checking out what's available and reading descriptions, etc. Trying to learn some things before I plunk down ANY money ANYWHERE.

When I come up with some specific questions, I'll post them here!
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#1233 User is offline   AsphyxiateHeart 

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 10:52 PM

Sean-

If you do decide to get a 98, I work in a shop which sells them rather cheap...$119 standard, $139 for the ACT version. If I'm not mistaken that $20 dollar difference is a spring, but it helps a lot! We can also do any repair for free and if you buy upgrades we can install them for free!
The 98 is a good starter marker for an occasional rec baller, if you decide to start playing weekly, or just a little more frequent than once a month or around there, I would recommend a step up. I think the 98 is a commendable choice though for a new player who wants a simple experience. Being a blowback marker it is a little harder on paint and it isnt as accurate or efficient as other guns, but it will work fine as you need it. Be sure to ask yourself questions such as, "How often do I want to play?" "Do I want to use Co2 or compressed air?" "What kind of paintballer am I? -Scenario, Woods, or speedball player" (Having only played a scenario game I would recommend you try other forms of play before deciding. I love woodsball, but I love to play it like I'm playing speedball, and I like equipment I can readily and easily interchange- And don't say you're not a speedball until you've tried it, I'm not saying it's my favorite, but I definitely love it a lot more than I thought I would, and I bashed on it for quite some time) Also be sure to decide how you shoot. If you typically think you will play in heavier brush and may want the option to bush a ball through the brush you may end up buying harder paint, which will shoot fine out of any Tippmann. If you want to make your shots tried and true, with a for sure break on impact on the opponent you may want to get a marker that shoots softer. Also maintenance is another key issue. The 98's don't need too much attention...just oil...Doesn't mean I still don't cringe when I see an uncleaned 98. The 98 is a blow back bolt, air fills up in the chamber and when you pull the trigger the air is released forward sending the bolt flying toward the ball with it being propelled past the detent (high impact) and carried out by your air at high speeds. There is no regulator in blowback bolts, the air fills the chamber, and away it goes. These shots are rather loud and noticeable.


Poppet (pronounced pop-it, you will see why) valves are very simple and have very few moving parts (And are also the most efficient valve). These are very popular around outlaw electro players due to their high air efficiency. Poppet valves are an open bolt, and can easily get dirty, however... We were playing at a scenario in Michigan and I had my ego, my first run through with it. It had received quite a bit of gunk from my run on the tank (You guys remember that =D) and my gun wasn't firing up to par. All I did to fix this on the field was pop-out the bolt rub it on my pants leg, and pop it back in. My gun then fired like a dream. This seriously took no more than six seconds, no exaggeration. Air is delivered via a regulator. The poppet valve has a signature "pop" when it shoots.


Spool valves are supposedly the cadillac of valves. (Well some anyways) These eat much more air, (Though not as much as the blowbacks), are a closed bolt (less crud gets in!), and are "supposedly" much softer on paint than a poppet. Players like Christopher Miller will tell you that spools are more accurate than poppets...but I don't quite believe it. Chris Lasoya must've given him some bad info. ;) Though with the design of the modern spool valve it is realistic to see how it can be quite softer though, which may help the trajectory of the ball some, but most of this will be determined by the barrel you are using. Spools have air delivered via a regulator. When the shoot it's more of a "Sput" noise. Spools are the quitest markers.



Ya know, I've always been iffy on purchasing used masks and tanks. I guess the big thing with the mask is "How much is your face worth?" Having something that is comfortable and fog resistant is great, but not knowing the history of used equipment I'm sketchy about what I put on my face. Some good masks options to look at....A lot of people like the vforce grillz, though I don't believe them to be dual pane lenses. There's a fanboy cult that follows empire masks, Chris can vouch for them. Personally from my opinion I feel as if the older models don't allow for adequate breathing, and the newer models are more prone to fog and are quite loose on my head, which allows for them to fall off a little easier...Chris of course, will have something different to say here. I'm not a huge fan of the JT masks, They aren't comfortable on MY (that being the keyword) head and I feel as if they fog a little easier than my personal preference. I also tend to notice that those masks fall a little short. I get quite a bit of flack for my i4's being "small" but I swear whenever I see Wraith talk I could easily make a ball into his mouth. Again...All perceptions are skewed, I will not deny that, even mine. There is a lot of hype from people who come from the Vforce, and empire mask backgrounds moving to the new Sly Profit. It's a new mask to hit the market, looks pretty slick, and has a super easy quick change lens (The past masks I havn't spoke about lens change because typically it's rather difficult, except it's not to bad on the Empire E-vents and the JT QLS Status). I can't exactly say if the Sly is worth the bill or not, but they are at least worth checking out. Another popular mask is the Dye i3. Dye masks typically get the best reception and I feel as if they are rather comfortable. My first mask was an invision, and to this day I've never worn a mask more comfortable (Again not denying all perceptions are skewed). The newer i3 pro seems to work pretty well, and people seem to like it. Dye's newest i4 is what I typically wear, I feel it's very comfortable, breathable, and it's stream-lined well with my face.

The mask that I know of that has the best user rating however, has to be the proto axis...The fact that I bothered to indent and double space for this line should be a good indicator it's where I'm steering you to RESEARCH. (<----) Sorry, I deal with people who say I say things that I don't, so I've come to make it a habbit of emphasizing things. The proto axis if you buy it now I believe is on sale with a fan. The fan is not really needed, but may help you a bit with sweating?...Probably not...but a good guess, from what I hear they are pretty solid on not fogging, but the fan will make sure that it will not, period. Actually, come to think of it, since you wear glasses a mask with a fan would be a good choice for you. I would check out the proto axis.

Also when looking at masks, I forgot to mention ear protection. Such as the mask Chris uses the Empire- Events (older model that I can't breath out of) has some rather poor ear protection (at least I think so) some of the JT masks have good ear protection, some don't...Dye is usually pretty good...Newer e-vents fixed their ear protection issue...Etc.


Any questions feel free to ask!

Hope my mini book was helpful.

I would explore some more options. Some scenario games (I hear Red Dawn is coming up), some standard woods games, and play speedball. Do it! Do all three!
It takes a long time before you learn to play like yourself - Miles Davis

"We used to tell them in Outward Bound, when a parent would come and ask us, ["Can you guarantee the safety of our son, Johnny?"] And finally we decided to meet it head-on. We would say, ["No. We certainly can't Ma'am. We guarantee you the genuine chance of his death. And if we could guarantee his safety, the program would not be worth running. We do make one guarantee, as one parent to another. If you succeed in protecting your boy, as you are doing now, and as its your motherly duty to do, you know we applaud your watch dog tenacity. You should be protecting him. But, if you succeed, we guarantee you the death of his soul!"]" -Unsoeld
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#1234 User is offline   AsphyxiateHeart 

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 10:59 PM

Tim,

You do seem to be partial to Tippmann's. Maybe you should check out the Phenom. I'll have one at Red Dawn I may be using...Or I may have it up for loan if you want to check it out =D. Just let me know!
It takes a long time before you learn to play like yourself - Miles Davis

"We used to tell them in Outward Bound, when a parent would come and ask us, ["Can you guarantee the safety of our son, Johnny?"] And finally we decided to meet it head-on. We would say, ["No. We certainly can't Ma'am. We guarantee you the genuine chance of his death. And if we could guarantee his safety, the program would not be worth running. We do make one guarantee, as one parent to another. If you succeed in protecting your boy, as you are doing now, and as its your motherly duty to do, you know we applaud your watch dog tenacity. You should be protecting him. But, if you succeed, we guarantee you the death of his soul!"]" -Unsoeld
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#1235 User is offline   beyond the grave 

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 09:06 AM

Actually Andrew most problems with Autocockers stem from people messing with them when they don't know what they're doing or no work needs done. Once the timing is set it shouldn't need to be be messed with unless you change parts out. Granted I'm trying to find out if Jeff is still working on them so I can send him my Karnivor. But that's only because I want a Karnivor that's tuned to perfection. I also may be building a Black Magic if I buy some parts off Chris. Granted this is all based off of not getting a gun sponsorship. And no Andrew I haven't heard back from them. I pretty much fell asleep as soon as I got home from school Thursday. But this week I will call them.

(By the way this is Mark in case you didn't figure it out)
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#1236 User is offline   AsphyxiateHeart 

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:10 AM

Wow. I 've actually seen your profile on here before...Like a lot...even looking at this forum...Never put it together that you...were you... I do agree that most of it is people messing with it, however, with standard cleaning and maintenance I believe if you don't know what you are doing it's easy to make it a pain...But that's my belief. Fun stuff! Welcome to the Glouster thread =D....Even though this should be the Athens thread!
It takes a long time before you learn to play like yourself - Miles Davis

"We used to tell them in Outward Bound, when a parent would come and ask us, ["Can you guarantee the safety of our son, Johnny?"] And finally we decided to meet it head-on. We would say, ["No. We certainly can't Ma'am. We guarantee you the genuine chance of his death. And if we could guarantee his safety, the program would not be worth running. We do make one guarantee, as one parent to another. If you succeed in protecting your boy, as you are doing now, and as its your motherly duty to do, you know we applaud your watch dog tenacity. You should be protecting him. But, if you succeed, we guarantee you the death of his soul!"]" -Unsoeld
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#1237 User is offline   shalehillslayer 

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 01:15 PM

glouster established their dominance over athens and meigs at lukes in case you forgot, lol.
hockingpaintball.blogspot.com
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#1238 User is offline   JKR 

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 05:01 PM

Sean, although it is sometimes hard to distinguish, try to avoid the hype and look at the facts when shopping. Like many things, paintball has been dominated by hype for as long as I can remember. Closed bolt is more accurate than open bolt, CO2 is a "dirty gas" and should never be used, pumps are more accurate than semis...the list goes on and on.

As far as 'guns go, there are three main things affecting accuracy: paint, consistency in the power supply, and the barrel. If you pick a good quality paint, use a barrel suited to that paint, and have a consistent air supply (like that supplied by HPA) a garden-variety M98 can be just about as accurate as a pump gun or a high-end tourney 'gun. Alot of people don't like to believe that statement but it is true. Sure, the high-end 'guns are smoother in operation (and result in some small accuracy improvements), feel better in operation, can shoot faster, and look better, but in reality, the differences in accuracy and functionality aren't much different when you compare a $175 'gun to a $1750 'gun. Of course, if you go too low end, you will have a heaping pile of junk after a few games but spending $1500 or more on a 'gun is totally unnecessary to enjoying yourself.

If you are going to be using HPA, remember that they have a regulator on the tank giving you a consistent output pressure. This does the vast majority of the work that on-gun regulators are supposed to do. Double regulating a gun can give you some rather small performance benefits, but don't lose any sleep if your marker choice doesn't have a regulator (most Tippmann's don't) and you plan on using HPA. An on-gun regulator can help you more if you choose CO2 but there is an entire different discussion about using CO2 properly that we could have. Just hit me up if you want some pointers on using CO2 effectively as I have been doing it for years. And unless your 'gun is an electro with an solenoid, CO2 will not damage your 'gun!

Andrew's advice on masks is spot on - get a good one and look into a model that uses a fan. With glasses, you will be happy you did!

Hope to see you on the field again soon!
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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
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#1239 User is offline   AsphyxiateHeart 

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:15 PM

I think Justin could go into detail more about using CO2 properly. Though shooting a standard blow back bolt mechanical marker Co2 shouldn't break your gun, it isn't the healthiest gas for it either. C02 can be used in electro-pneumatics as well,it does need proper attention. The point of my saying so was in a general sense. If you felt this would be a hobby that you would commit to quite frequently I would highly recommend compressed air. Being a recreational player, CO2 should work fine. Now I do oppose Justin on the idea that a 98 (more specifically I am speaking a blow-back bolt, is just as accurate as "any high-end tourney gun". I am willing to dispute that, however, I will concede that a majority of it will play a part in your paint and barrel, and a lesser amount in the valve/bolt.

As for other news it currently doesn't look as if I will be making a trip to Global Conquest this year...Very sad indeed. There is still a chance, but it doesn't look as promising. This means that anyone who has rode up with me or had me to babysit them in the past will not =D. Playing the role of "Dad" this time around will be the godfather Wraith. Be sure to defer to him if you are going, give him your money, especially for the hotel, and contact him soon as I hear the space in his car fills up fast! :ThumbsUp:


I will most likely be making the trip to CPX sports to play Living Legends...currently by myself- but that just gives me more time to play :wub:. If anyone else is interested hit me up.

For now let's concentrate on the games we have at hand!

-And Sean, there are some great opportunities coming up for you to try out some new gear!
It takes a long time before you learn to play like yourself - Miles Davis

"We used to tell them in Outward Bound, when a parent would come and ask us, ["Can you guarantee the safety of our son, Johnny?"] And finally we decided to meet it head-on. We would say, ["No. We certainly can't Ma'am. We guarantee you the genuine chance of his death. And if we could guarantee his safety, the program would not be worth running. We do make one guarantee, as one parent to another. If you succeed in protecting your boy, as you are doing now, and as its your motherly duty to do, you know we applaud your watch dog tenacity. You should be protecting him. But, if you succeed, we guarantee you the death of his soul!"]" -Unsoeld
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#1240 User is offline   scoobshagg 

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 09:52 PM

View Postbeyond the grave, on Mar 1 2010, 11:06 AM, said:

Actually Andrew most problems with Autocockers stem from people messing with them when they don't know what they're doing or no work needs done. Once the timing is set it shouldn't need to be be messed with unless you change parts out. Granted I'm trying to find out if Jeff is still working on them so I can send him my Karnivor. But that's only because I want a Karnivor that's tuned to perfection. I also may be building a Black Magic if I buy some parts off Chris. Granted this is all based off of not getting a gun sponsorship. And no Andrew I haven't heard back from them. I pretty much fell asleep as soon as I got home from school Thursday. But this week I will call them.

(By the way this is Mark in case you didn't figure it out)



I was always under the impression that the Autocockers were good markers once the Timing was set. The trick for me from the start is how to set that stuff having no previous knowledge of autocockers. It also seemed to me that Autocockers were kind of like a tinkers paintball marker, you can mod this, change that. These markers are like the Transformers of Paintball Marker without the whole talking to you part.

Tim
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#1241 User is offline   EL TORO 

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:05 AM

Time to add my 2 cents in on this.

Sean,

As you can tell when it comes to paintball equipment there is one thing that EVERYONE is in agreement on. COMFORT. You MUST feel comfortable with what you are using. People laugh at me, due to my size, when they see me runing, ok guys quite laughing, er walking around the field with my Invert Mini. The reason that I use them is because I love them and I am very confortable with them. that is the same reason that I wear an events mask.

I have had many markers, from Tippmanns, which I to this day will recommend to any player starting out, to autocockers and automags. As a matter of fact I still have all of them to.

My best advise to you would be for you to take a look, ie... hold, shoot, look at, examine, and on and on and on, what everyone that you know has. This way you can find out what works best for you.

I know that at Red Dawn there will be all types of markers so come on up and see what is out there.
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#1242 User is offline   AsphyxiateHeart 

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:45 AM

Transformers of paint...wha? I think you should check your sources on that one Tim...Though Mark is partially correct, there's a good reason autocockers aren't that popular nowadays. And from what I hear anything past the year 2000 SUCKS...But personal preference....


I applaud Rich for saying in 1 word what I danced around for several posts. Big things that are gonna affect your comfort are your tanks, asa, trigger, masks, and...well I guess everything...One of the reasons I hate Tippmann is that darn asa...I can't stand my tank pointing down at an angle...I can take my hpa and place it into my bicep and it will sit there comfortably...Can you put flat-line asa's on Tippmann's? Would make my phenom a little nicer. But bottomline...try gear out...it took me five years to get comfortable with what I had and what I wear...so...play around a bit with other setups...Learn first =D.
It takes a long time before you learn to play like yourself - Miles Davis

"We used to tell them in Outward Bound, when a parent would come and ask us, ["Can you guarantee the safety of our son, Johnny?"] And finally we decided to meet it head-on. We would say, ["No. We certainly can't Ma'am. We guarantee you the genuine chance of his death. And if we could guarantee his safety, the program would not be worth running. We do make one guarantee, as one parent to another. If you succeed in protecting your boy, as you are doing now, and as its your motherly duty to do, you know we applaud your watch dog tenacity. You should be protecting him. But, if you succeed, we guarantee you the death of his soul!"]" -Unsoeld
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#1243 User is offline   scoobshagg 

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 08:15 PM

I love my tippmanns both of them, they are reliable nonfiniky, and are build like a tank. I can take my tippmann anywere, I can shoot anything out of it and I can mod it to fit me. It's accurate (with something other than the stock barrel), tippmann is a good generalist intro type marker. I know that there are some who don't care for them, or have moved on from their tippmanns but I like them. Anytime I go out with an electro I have some kind of issue now I admit that it could be operator (me) error, or that I didn't talk to it nicely when I first picked it up. I'm just now starting to look into these markers and there are some nice benifits to them, and there are some really nice looking markers in the electro side of things. I may even in a year or so one one, but for now I'd say go for a tippmann, and move up from there. The Carver just came out and it's only $99, you just can't bet that price, for a marker of any kind.

Any way that's my little rant for tonight, I'll see you kids at Red Dawn



Tim
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#1244 User is offline   JKR 

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:01 PM

Tim,

Interesting analogy from Transformers to Autocockers. You are right in a sense, there are tons of parts you can replace and adjust to suit your personal style or needs. Although parts aren't as plentiful as a few years ago, there are still plenty floating around. They are definitely a great choice if you like to tinker. Adjusting and setting the timing of the pnuematics aside, they are reliable and pretty trouble-free, I will grant you that. My Sniper (an Autococker less those pesky pneumatics) has been rock-solid with regards to the valve, hammer, bolt and trigger. I just don't like tinkering all that much and Autocockers were never my cup of tea. I owned one for a while (thought it was a logical choice given that I had the Sniper II already) but sold it because I didn't like it. Since I picked up the Automag, going to an Autococker has never crossed my mind! Oh, and Autocockers were good up until 2002 or 2003 - it was after that they started the quality slide.

Rich is right...COMFORT is very important. One reason that I like the Sniper II and Automag is the grip frame. I find the one-hole WGP style frame fitted with an AGD rubber grip to the absolutely most comfortable grip frame I have ever used. Far and away more comfortable than a .45 frame in my hands. Definitely try out all 'guns you can get your hands on before buying. Tim, if you want to use my Automag for the day at Red Dawn, just say the word.

In the end, you are the one that has to be happy, not anyone else. I never care one bit when I get joked about my equipment being old and behind the times. No one has to like it besides me and as long as my equipment performs well, I could care less. And if anyone thinks my Automag and Sniper II don't perform well...you need to blame the operator, not the equipment!

This post has been edited by JKR: 02 March 2010 - 09:02 PM

AIRGUN DESIGNS
"Because quality shoots straight...always"


"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company."
-- George Washington

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#1245 User is offline   JKR 

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:17 PM

Oh, and Tim...

Regarding the issue of poppet valves vs spool valves - it reminds me of the age old debate of closed bolt vs open bolt. Keep this article (and many others around the web) in mind...

Warpig - Open Bolt vs Closed Bolt


Some other interesting points to ponder...just remember that a poppet valved 'gun is little more than an open bolt, blowback valved gun that uses a solenoid to control a ram that does the work of a spring and hammer in a traditional blowback.

Oh, and the Automag valve is the first spool valve design in paintball...all spool valved markers today follow in the footsteps of AGD.
AIRGUN DESIGNS
"Because quality shoots straight...always"


"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company."
-- George Washington

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