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#1 User is offline   gilch 

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:34 PM

Hey Everyone

New PB'er here and as usual my head is spinning in regards to my marker purchase decision.
I am looking to play Woodsball and have narrowed it down to a couple suggestions. I have went ahead and read as many reviews as possible on multiple markers but am curious for more suggestions/thoughts.
I am looking to stay in the $500 range for a woodsball marker.

1. BT TM-15 / TM-7
2. Tippmann Phenom x7
3. MilSig K-SERIES ELITE
4. Tiberious Arms 9.1 Rifle .. theres a few diff models so im not sure
(also on the T.A. rifles, they all say they include the 8.1 pistol, so when
you buy a specific rifle are u just buying the pistol + the mod kit?)
i also read a bunch about the First Strike Rounds .... do they make THAT much of a difference? ...if anyone has any other similar woodsball marker suggestions that i missed i would love to know as well...
thanks in advance !!!
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#2 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 10:02 PM

Welcome to the forum (and paintball?) gilch!

Hmm ... personally, I'm not sure I would recommend starting with these sorts of markers - unless you've played before and you know you'll use them! I cannot personally vouch for the First Strike rounds, but they are ridiculous from what I've heard - ball on ball accuracy at great ranges!

Anyways, I'll give you the basic rundown we give to new ballers in general:

1) Invest in a GOOD mask. I personally recommend some with a Dual-Pane THERMAL lens. Make sure whatever you get has a "Thermal" lens. Lots of people will recommend a VForce Profiler (especially if you have glasses - it has lots of extra room) or VForce Grills - you may also get recommendations for the Dye i3 Pro or Dye i4.

Firstly, go to a local store and TRY them on - see what feels comfortable. Once you've narrowed it down, decide what you want - the i4 and Profiler have crazy visibility, but I found the i4's to be too small for my face, and I had the Profilers for a while, but I got frustrated because every time I forgot the Thermal part was just a coating I wiped the back of the lens and I started fogging like crazy. Personally, I wear Dye i3's - my friend has played through a thunderstorm in them (not recommended) and not fogged.

Cost (Canadian $) --> $70-$120

2) Think about getting a high-pressure air tank. I personally recommend Ninja Paintball - adjustable regulator output pressure, and high flow (will keep up with a fast gun). CO2 is ok, but I'm pretty sure for the TM7/15 at least you need it to run without breaking the electronics. In any case, HPA is much more stable and will be consistent at any temperature.

Also, pick one that will fit how much you will shoot - I started with a 48 cubic inch/ 3000 psi aluminum tank - gets about 480 shots on the average paintball marker. I use a smaller (13ci) tank on my pump action, but just got a carbon fibre 68ci/4500psi tank for my new Automag.

Aluminum is cheaper, but heavier - also, carbon fibre tanks (even if not damaged) are condemned after 15 years of use - aluminum tanks (if undamaged) can last indefinitely. Tanks with a certain diameter need to by hydrostatically tested for safety every 3-5 years.

Cost (Canadian $) --> $65-$200

As for the markers themselves, I only have experience personally with the MILSIG (my friend bought one used). You can convert it to use a hopper if you want, but then it's just a glorified BT4/Tippmann 98 custom. My friend found the clips (same ones used on RAP4s) to be a bit buggy in that the paint he used (Field Paint Only at our field) wasn't consistently sized, and some were too big - they got stuck at the top of the magazines before making into the marker, so he fired nothing half of the time.

In any case, after purchasing a good tank/mask you may not have enough for one of these markers, so keep your options open!

Chris

This post has been edited by cdrinkh20: 12 December 2010 - 10:03 PM

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#3 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:38 AM

Welcome to the forums gilch! Glad you found us & hope you enjoy your time here.

First let me follow up w/ what cd wrote... mask should be your number one priority when you make your first purchases. There are a lot of great options for thermal lens masks under $100, cheapest being a Vents Helix (w/ Dual pane thermal lens) for around $40.

Tank is another important purchase. The TM-7/15 I believe should run on HPA only, the other three can be run on CO2 or HPA. Again, as cd wrote, HPA is a better option assuming you can get fills at your local field or in your area (if you play outlaw/backyard).

For each marker see responses in red:

View Postgilch, on 12 December 2010 - 11:34 PM, said:

1. BT TM-15 / TM-7
Solid marker(s) from what I've seen, there's a few at my field. It's an electro so it requires batteries to operate, most people don't have an issue w/ that but some don't like the hassle. Standard hopper feed or Ripclip attachment which is similar to the Cyclone system on Tippmans.

2. Tippmann Phenom x7
Which one are you looking at? The original elecro-pneu or the newer all mechanical (cheaper). Personally I'd get the electro version, yes it runs on batteries just like the TM's above but at the flip of a switch it can run mechanical if your battery dies... nice feature. There have been some minor issues w/ the Phenom on their initial release like bolt stick, not sure if they've solved it w/ subsequent releases or not since I haven't really been following. Even if you do have issues their customer service is top notch, getting free replacement parts from them is pretty easy.

3. MilSig K-SERIES ELITE
Like cd wrote, basically a BT-4/98 Custom. Pretty old marker technology, certainly the dinosaur among the 4 markers you've listed - not that it's bad. In their original configuration they are mag fed, but can be converted to hopper fed. Mag fed paintball sounds fun but don't make a huge investment in it only to find out you hate it, better to start playing w/ a normal/standard hopper fed configration.

4. Tiberious Arms 9.1 Rifle .. theres a few diff models so im not sure
Quality marker platform, not really any bad things to say about it. It does come as a mag feed but is easily converted to hopper. There are different models but they are all the same thing w/ different accessories/attachments, none of which are really necessary. It is essentially a T8.1 pistol w/ a longer barrel & stock. So if you did feel like running w/ just a pistol for the day you could strip it down. You are right to look at the T9.1 instead of the T9, the 9 is not First Strike compatible. While you may find the FS round is expensive, atleast you have that option if you wanted to use it. Another thing to consider w/ FS rounds is whether you are allowed to use them at your field, in other words do you play where it's "field paint only" or bring your own. Some fields have started carrying FS rounds though, like my local field. If you play outlaw then it doesn't matter.


The TM's & the e-pneu Phenom can really rip thru alot of paint, whereas the all mechanical Milsig & T9.1 will be much slower shooters (although, I believe there is an e-trigger available for the Milsig)... though shooting 25 balls per second on mag feed markers wouldn't really be desirable, obviously, lol. Since you are new you really have no idea which you'll like more, but atleast the first two give you the option to do both right away.

Honestly, dropping up to $500 on a first marker is a bit much in my opinion. Getting used/new: $200/$300 Invert Mini (basically a TM-7/15), a $90/na classic Automag (T-9.1/Phenom), or even just a basic $60/$120 Custom 98 (Milsig) to start & saving the extra $200-400 for paint & field fees would serve you better. The worst thing I see from some of the players around me is they spend a ton of cash on their setup but then don't have any left to actually play. If that's the case then what's the point?

I'll just relay some of my experience: I started w/ a modded out Tippy A-5 which was a lot of fun but found it too big & bulky for my tastes so I trimmed it down to a smaller version, but now rarely use it instead choosing my Automags. Now for days when I want to sling a little more paint I'm looking at getting an electro. Regardless of what you choose first it likely won't be the last marker you own. In the end though you have to do what makes you happy, if you like what you have you'll want to play w/ it more.

Good luck w/ your choices & keep us updated on your decisions!

EDIT: typing w/ buttered lobster claws

This post has been edited by ger: 13 December 2010 - 08:50 AM

ger
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#4 User is offline   cdrinkh20 

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:10 AM

View Postger, on 13 December 2010 - 08:38 AM, said:


First let me follow up w/ what cd wrote... mask should be your number one priority when you make your first purchases. There are a lot of great options for thermal lens masks under $100, cheapest being a Vents Helix (w/ Dual pane thermal lens) for around $40.

Though I should mention, from my experience... my friend bought a brand new Proto mask (cheaper version made by Dye) and his lens fogged pretty bad first scenario game he got it for despite a dual thermal pane (but I've read about their 2 lenses coming apart). Also, my other friend at the same scenario had some brand new EVents (high end Empire mask) and they also fogged) - which is why I'd recommend my i3's - no problems of fog for me yet!

View Postger, on 13 December 2010 - 08:38 AM, said:

EDIT: typing w/ buttered lobster claws

Lol
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#5 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:27 AM

first off, what youve been told by cdrink and ger is entirely correct. However, i would just like to interject that a "woodsball" marker is not necessarily a "mil-sim" marker. If this is the look you're going for, then go ahead. The Phenom is great and the TM markers are solid as well. But if youre not necessarily looking for mil-sim, dont be afraid to look into tourney markers. For a tourney style, mid range marker, the ETEK 3 really stands out. the LT version is fine, its actually lighter and in some ways more durable. Read some reviews on them and consider. Just because it is a speedball marker does not mean you cant use it in the woods. While some people may say that the durability of "mil-sim" markers is superior to tourney markers, that is not necessarily true. Electronic markers can play in the rain, mud, and cold just as well as mil-sims. Be sure to look into that before making your choice. My first marker was an A5, and after a month or two of playing i wished i would have looked into some tourney markers instead.
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#6 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 12:52 PM

Good point Ben. That's something I had in the back of my mind, but tried to focus on the 4 markers he listed.

Using a traditional "speedball" marker in the woods is perfectly acceptable. I'm just assuming gilch has limited his search to "Milsim" type markers because he likes how they look. If looks aren't an issue, then yes, there is a whole world of markers available for use in the woods. I did mention the Mini as an alternative to the TM series since that's basically all the TM's are, a Mini in a shell. The new Invert/Empire Axe is also a nice addition to the market, as it kinda ups the ante on the Mini w/ a lot of nice new features the Mini didn't have. The new Etek3 is a very nice electro at a pretty decent price brand new, but can be found in like new condition for around $400 or less. Those three are just the tip of the iceberg for quality electro's at decent prices. So if Milsim looks aren't that terribly important then I'd expand my horizon if I were you, there's some quality markers out there for the price.

Prior to buying a marker though, here's a quick tip: Look around at your local field (assuming you play at an organized field) and try asking someone to borrow their marker to fire some paint at the target range... offer to use your own paint so you aren't wasting theirs. This could give you the feel for a number of different types of markers. The most important thing is that the marker has to feel good to you. Having a 2 lb. electro in your hands may feel cheap to you, or the idea of lugging a 9 lb. milsim around just seams like it would make for a long day - the point is you won't really know until you are able to actually hold them.
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#7 User is offline   Benaiah 

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 02:48 PM

if youre looking for a good used electro, try trademygun.com. That is a great place to buy used guns, and last time i checked there was 395 etek 3 up there. But yes, if you live near a pro shop (lucky you) or go to you local field, and try to hold and shoot as many markers as you can. ask the person what they like/dont like about it. Usually, they'll be helpful, but you may run into the occasional butt.
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#8 User is offline   aslanprime 

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:37 PM

To echo everyone else...mask first. And you don't have to spend alot. I have had the same JT X-Fire Elite mask with a thermal lens for going on 8-9 years. I've had to get a replacement lens a couple times, but it never fogs (although my friggin glasses do sometimes). Just need a thermal lens, nothing fancy.

To answer your question, the Phenom is the best bet out of those 4. I'd prefer a different marker just because for the same price as a new Phenom you could probably get an uppd X7 or a very nice response A5...but a Phenom is a nice starter marker if you got the cash to throw around.
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#9 User is offline   icehouse 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:26 AM

You have been given a lot of GOOD info in this thread, but I would like to add a couple things about 2 of the markers that you mentioned.

The TM7/TM15 have 1 major drawback, in my opinion. The ASA is not an on/off style, which makes it hard to put on or take off a tank. With that in mind, running tank on marker, is not a really good idea with these. The frames on these markers are not as solid feeling with a tank on it. There is quite a bit of wobble when you try to run with tank on. Now, if you are planning on running a remote line, then this is not a problem.

Also, the TM7 has had a lot of problems with the solenoids. The pistons would stick occasionally, causing you to have to reset them. Yes, it is the same system as the Mini, but for some reason the Mini had none of these problems. With my TM7, I purchased the upgraded solenoid and did not have any other problems after that. It is just somewhat aggravating that you purchase a $400+ marker and the company knows that they have a problem but refuse to upgrade the issue.

I am not saying that BT is a bad company, but since PBSolutions took over there service department, it has went downhill some.
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#10 User is offline   kaosukoden 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 08:48 AM

Of course everyone here has been very accurate and helpful, but to kinda add on:

I started playing about 5 years ago, and my first purchase was a tippmann 98 pack, came with a 9oz tank, a mask, a basic gravity fed hopper, so on and so fourth. I played my first three months with just that package, cost me $130 at bass pro shop. Afterwards, the first thing I did was purchase a new mask, I got the vForce Profiler, and it has been the best purchase involving the sport. I have purchased a used A5 and a brand spank'n new T8 Socom edition when it first came out. Best side arm an ambush sniper can have. I have done some major modifications to my t98 and my A5 is a work in progress at the moment. It all depends on your play style. If you're an ambush sniper, and would like to stick with the milsim look/style/play, I say go with the T9.1. I have had some amazing experience's with Tiberius, and suggest them to everyone. While Compressed air is certainly the way to go, I would highly recommend not purchasing anything of the sort until you get your play style down and decide which way you'll go. Unless of course the gun requires it, or you have the extra $100 to blow on a tank. But there will be other mods/upgrades/changes that you'll want to make. (I'm sure that'll spark some conversation, because I think I'm the only oddball who took 3+ years to switch)
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