Special Ops Paintball: Amazon.com: Freedom of speech or is this too much? - Special Ops Paintball

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Amazon.com: Freedom of speech or is this too much? Rate Topic: -----

#61 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:03 AM

View PostThe Hobbit, on 17 November 2010 - 09:00 PM, said:

View PostWarpaint, on 12 November 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

Freedom of Speech was intended to protect citizens from reprisal by the government when stating grievances against the government, and for the government to show no favoritism to any religious or social group or affiliation. It does not protect perverts from instructing fellow perverts as to how to enhance the perverse sexual gratification they receive and enjoy while abusing and raping children. Maybe someone should write a book about the perverse gratification parents would receive from pushing a Louisville Slugger up the rear-end of a pedophile so far it pushes out teeth, and then watching some ER technicians remove the splinters with a fireman's jaws of life. That would keep Oprah and Obama off the top 10 booksellers for a while! Where do I sign up for the book of the month club?![/b]

Focusing on this in particular and not directed totally at you but also the guy who said all books "teaching people to do illegal activites" should be banned.
Now what happens if these books are banned. Good no more evil instruction books for illegal activies. Now down the road the government starts to overstep its rights and begin to oppress the citizens. Suddenly we find the gov't doesnt care at all about the bill of rights anymore they will do as they want when they want. So suddenly the protection provided by the bill of rights is null.
The point I am trying to get at is that though we may disagree with books like this, but to just let the government censor them is just as wrong as the content of the books. We as citizens have a duty to watch the government and tell them when they are out of line. I may disagree with this book or books teaching how the grow marajuana or other drugs, I will tell you now that I would be one of the first to be fired up about the banning of these style books. I see it as citizens just handing over their rights into the hands of the government as they are "better suited to protect us as citizens". Let these books be circulated, It is your duty as a parent to watch for the signs your child is being molested or taken advantage of sexually.
Maybe I have just read 1984 and Brave New World a few too many times. I hope my point is relatively clear with this post as I know my thoughts are very congested and can be difficult to follow.

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#62 User is offline   The Hobbit 

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:45 PM

ghostinthewoods summed it up pretty much in two words.
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#63 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:57 PM

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#64 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:42 PM

View PostMaDuce, on 21 December 2010 - 01:57 AM, said:



Even though this guy is messed up, and a disgusting human being (imo), he should get off. If we start censoring now, it starts a bad precedent. The only thing that i can think of that might allow Florida's law to stand against the first amendment would be the argument that Americans must draw the line between free speech, and what is too disgusting to be disseminated.
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#65 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:29 PM

The article touches on a pretty valid rights issue though.

Did he in fact commit the "crime" in Florida?

If it wasn't legal in Colorado, charge him there. That's where he "was" at the time of the publication and at the time of the actual sales transaction.

Now, I could see a buyer of his book in Florida being subject to that law, as they are receiving the item in question within Florida state boundaries.

So... more dangerous precedent to be had. One state making a thing illegal could mean you can be charged from them for doing it... in another state. Colorado is way outside Florida's jurisdiction, and if it's not illegal by Federal Law or by Colorado law, I don't see how this can stick Constitutionally-speaking. By this logic (to an extreme, granted), Chicago can charge me for weapons violations when I'm in Minnesota, even though I am in full compliance with federal and Minnesota state law.


TL;DR - It's the requirement of the person buying the goods to know their own state laws, not the seller. The seller isn't in your state, and may not have the same laws.
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#66 User is offline   Epic_Fail 

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:42 PM

Where's robin when a relevant thread comes up...


XD


But, in all seriousness, just make the book really hard to find. It's legal, but really disgusting.


Children are creepy as hell anyway.




Now, since that's over. How about we discuss something actually important regarding amazon? Like what the hell this thing is and why it costs so much.
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#67 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:36 AM

View PostThalion, on 21 December 2010 - 08:29 PM, said:

The article touches on a pretty valid rights issue though.

Did he in fact commit the "crime" in Florida?

If it wasn't legal in Colorado, charge him there. That's where he "was" at the time of the publication and at the time of the actual sales transaction.

Now, I could see a buyer of his book in Florida being subject to that law, as they are receiving the item in question within Florida state boundaries.

So... more dangerous precedent to be had. One state making a thing illegal could mean you can be charged from them for doing it... in another state. Colorado is way outside Florida's jurisdiction, and if it's not illegal by Federal Law or by Colorado law, I don't see how this can stick Constitutionally-speaking. By this logic (to an extreme, granted), Chicago can charge me for weapons violations when I'm in Minnesota, even though I am in full compliance with federal and Minnesota state law.


TL;DR - It's the requirement of the person buying the goods to know their own state laws, not the seller. The seller isn't in your state, and may not have the same laws.

Exactly. If someone in Michigan were to buy a taser online, it wouldn't be the vendor's fault that the person possessed it. It wouldn't be the taser company's fault that the person bought it. I don't care much for the guy, but this is weak.

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Where's robin when a relevant thread comes up...

Stuck working retail during the holidays =p
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#68 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 11:26 AM

View Postghostinthewood, on 23 December 2010 - 11:36 AM, said:

Exactly. If someone in Michigan were to buy a taser online, it wouldn't be the vendor's fault that the person possessed it. It wouldn't be the taser company's fault that the person bought it. I don't care much for the guy, but this is weak.


I don't care for this guy at all. I am, however, worried about the legal precedent that can be created by his case.

It has historically been that the "extreme exception" of government soon becomes the norm. SWAT teams were created for the "exception," for the truly dangerous and crazy scenarios that require that level of firepower. Since those teams are built, and since those kinds of incidents are rare, they soon became part of standard operating for serving warrants. Am I against SWAT teams? No, they're needed for their niche, but because they were allowed to start doing "the exception" warrant raids, I feel this opened up the precedent for using them for nearly all of them today.

Back to the subject -- if this guy can get charged in a state he hasn't set foot in for a publication he wrote in another state, then what keeps any of our First Amendment rights safe?

As I said, if he broke the law in Colorado, then by all means punish him for it in a Colorado judicial system. He didn't break the law in Florida, the undercover cops who bought it did (resisting the urge to write up a whole other rant about how a select group of LE feels they are above the law and can break it in the name of enforcing it... )
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#69 User is offline   ghostinthewood 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 01:29 PM

I'm sure the arresting officers had nothing to do with it, its the administrators that make those kinds of calls but who gets all the flak? But thats another rant =p

I'm with you though. This smells like poo.
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#70 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 01:36 PM

View Postghostinthewood, on 23 December 2010 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'm sure the arresting officers had nothing to do with it, its the administrators that make those kinds of calls but who gets all the flak? But thats another rant =p


Oh, I know it's the admins.

Just like it's the admins trying to charge this guy.

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I'm with you though. This smells like poo.


Indeed.
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#71 User is offline   Warpaint 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:25 PM

View PostThalion, on 14 November 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

Warpaint,

PW's not defending it. He's pointing out how it's common abroad to make a point.

You hear about stuff like this Amazon book fairly often, or even every time a new Catholic priest was found abusing a boy. You have to almost go out of your way to find out what's going on over there. It's not often mentioned in the news, even if there are some human rights activists out trying to change it.

The point is instead for a little consistency, and for calling attention to what is a far more serious problem in other parts of the world. For example, it's typically deemed hateful to Islam to speak negatively about Muhammad, yet Muhammad himself was one such pedophile as PW noted. When people keep shut the history and how it is still a rampant issue today, it seems as if they are intimidated into silence in the name of not offending anyone.



Didn't say PW was defending it, hope he didn't take it that way.
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#72 User is offline   Gauss 

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 07:46 PM

Now, why would one write a book like that?
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