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CQC/counter defense Just a scenario option....subclass thing....(yes ive thought about it) Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:54 PM

Ok, so like on a real assault rifle with rails you can put an M203 launcher, shotgun (no handle and short barrel), fore grip etc.
Ive also seen an adapter for the M203 that allows you to shoot shotgun shells out of it.

So, i was thinking, of a class that utilizes an M203/underbarrel shotgun (mainly just the under barrel, explosives in close quarters....bad, but realize I am talking about a thunder grenade launcher). Not only this but also a class that thrives on the "10ft surrender" rule (at least on my outlaw field), the barrel tap, and to my knowledge only on the outlaw field i play on, the knife tap (rubber knife, same as barrel tap).
So putting this all together i came up with the CQC/counter defense (Kukri). Persons who do this are a lot like "daggers" if i must say it (also having traits of stalker, saber, and broadsword, if I must say it also). You jam up the enemy around corners, over a wall, in a pillbox, "crack house" (scenario games). Also just getting intimately close to the enemy to utilize the barrel tap or surrender, or....close range shotgun blast, if multiple opponents can be neutralized. Also as I mentioned, counter defense. If exact whereabouts of a defending sniper are unknown but direction is somewhat certain and range permitting, a M203 blast into the area could clear out a sniper, the M203 emits a very loud sound when it goes off, so this could be the split second distraction needed to rush a dug in enemy position.

Since this is what I feel im good at the gear I recommend to be successful are a under barrel M203, open red dot sight for fast target acquisition, a folding, or telescoping stock for changing from CQC to standard combatant. A sturdy barrel or a rubber knife (field permitting).


So yes I know this class is very gun specific...sorta, but like I said scenario only, im not trying to get this adopted as a specops position. And being that ive never played on a public woodsball field, I have no idea if the knife tap is legal anywhere but outlaw (and maybe not many others would accept it).
And just for giggles im calling it Kukri, for those who dont know the Kukri is a short Machete like tool/weapon with a forward slanted/curved blade used by the gurkhas of Nepal, its primary uses are a machete (brush and hardwoods) and doing extreme amounts of melee damage, to living things.

This post has been edited by Scath an Bhais: 03 October 2008 - 02:58 PM

O'Tuathaigh
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#2 User is offline   OP4delta 

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 06:26 PM

soooo...a dagger?

i know it has been said before and will be said again...
dont worry about positions. i play like that, with a pistol, and try for barrel tags whenever i can. i dont consider my self a dagger or whatever, i just play.

also...i like the rubber knife, but a shotgun (as has also been said before) is a little overkill...ie overshooting...i dont want to get hit with grapeshot, its just not fun.
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#3 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 03:16 PM

View PostOP4delta, on Oct 3 2008, 06:26 PM, said:

soooo...a dagger?

i know it has been said before and will be said again...
dont worry about positions. i play like that, with a pistol, and try for barrel tags whenever i can. i dont consider my self a dagger or whatever, i just play.

also...i like the rubber knife, but a shotgun (as has also been said before) is a little overkill...ie overshooting...i dont want to get hit with grapeshot, its just not fun.

Well....
OK so ive never thought of the dagger position as somone who liked to be intimatly close to the enemy, but just somone who rused in, slide, bunker kill, i thought about this more as somone who had to have quick reflexes because they would be right ontop of the enemy.
And yeah i can see how getting a grapeshot of paintballs would totally ruin somones day, i wouldnt do it to somone if i could see them and were right in front of them, a few shots from your marker would be better for that, but more like for the sniper scenario i talked about before. and just if you needed a shot that covered alot of space.
And i understand that the position system is almost garbage, it limits people, but im just having fun... :(
Thanks
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#4 User is offline   Flip 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:50 AM

Just an FYI-

I've been on the recieving end of grape-shot (helo) it isn't as bad as you think... unless it's point-blank.

RP Scenario's have gone to nerf launchers now for Helos/Tanks/Bunkers and they can be mounted "M203" style. The range with the short barrel isn't that great but will work.
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#5 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for the info on the grapeshot.
My only problum with using the nerf rocket, is on open field, but thats why i should carry more than one...
Also, if your awsome and have a complex bunker, like your enemy can hide behind a corner, and you shoot the nerf rocket in their, how do you know they would have just survived the "blast" by going around the corner. But i guess you could use a sabot round.
Eh, nothing wrong with carrying multiple shells.
Id love to use a kalashnikov styled launcher, cause the barrel is long and it has a built in vertical (actually diagonal) grip. but your marker has to have a kalashnikov shroud, so i settled for the G36 styled launcher with shorter barrel. Oh well.
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#6 User is offline   OP4delta 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 12:46 PM

View PostScath an Bhais, on Oct 8 2008, 11:42 AM, said:

My only problum with using the nerf rocket, is on open field, but thats why i should carry more than one...
Also, if your awsome and have a complex bunker, like your enemy can hide behind a corner, and you shoot the nerf rocket in their, how do you know they would have just survived the "blast" by going around the corner. But i guess you could use a sabot round.


i like the idea of using nerf to take out a bunker...much easier than trying to clear it yourself...(but not as fun sometimes :panzer: )

Stupid question: whats a sabot round?
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#7 User is offline   Flip 

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:11 PM

Rules for bunkers/nerfs/LAW's can vary from game to game - I think the "standard" has been a 5' blast radius behind and bunker wall hit. Of course one nerf will take out a standard RP Scenario CP - but larger buildings (multiple rooms) it really varies. Seems most say you can take out 1 "wall" per nerf but if it's a huge building (think MOUT Site) I'm sure the rules are ammended. Same reason you need Refs to call elims when using roles (like Demo/LAWs).

In RP Scenario LAW's per the GSRP:

Quote

These SRPLs must chronograph under a speed of 230 FPS (all the time) during day and night play.


My nerf launchers use 12 grams and I know I don't get anywhere near 200 FPS so the range isn't that great - I prefer to get close to assure a hit. I've BT'd more Tanks & Helo's than I've shot - even more with structures (if the refs allow it) - saves on 12 grams! :laugh:


A Sabot is normally used in the "grapeshot/shotgun" style launchers that shoot multiple paintballs. It's normally a cup or something that holds your paint rounds that launches them out the barrel. After it exits the barrel it should open up and drop to the ground. Most fields frown on these unless the shooters are very diligent about policing up thier trash (the spent sabot). Same goes for launchers using tp or paper wads - the trash factor can get out of hand. I prefer the 2 disk/lanyard system for my MPR-Launchers. Works well and you can adjust the disks for more or less paint.
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#8 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:09 PM

View PostFlip, on Oct 8 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

Rules for bunkers/nerfs/LAW's can vary from game to game - I think the "standard" has been a 5' blast radius behind and bunker wall hit. Of course one nerf will take out a standard RP Scenario CP - but larger buildings (multiple rooms) it really varies. Seems most say you can take out 1 "wall" per nerf but if it's a huge building (think MOUT Site) I'm sure the rules are ammended. Same reason you need Refs to call elims when using roles (like Demo/LAWs).

In RP Scenario LAW's per the GSRP:

Quote

These SRPLs must chronograph under a speed of 230 FPS (all the time) during day and night play.


My nerf launchers use 12 grams and I know I don't get anywhere near 200 FPS so the range isn't that great - I prefer to get close to assure a hit. I've BT'd more Tanks & Helo's than I've shot - even more with structures (if the refs allow it) - saves on 12 grams! :)


A Sabot is normally used in the "grapeshot/shotgun" style launchers that shoot multiple paintballs. It's normally a cup or something that holds your paint rounds that launches them out the barrel. After it exits the barrel it should open up and drop to the ground. Most fields frown on these unless the shooters are very diligent about policing up thier trash (the spent sabot). Same goes for launchers using tp or paper wads - the trash factor can get out of hand. I prefer the 2 disk/lanyard system for my MPR-Launchers. Works well and you can adjust the disks for more or less paint.

I was thinking more of the sabot style round explained in the DYI in ammo box (i think), talks about using it only for indirect fire cause you use a paint grenade as your load.
They have special thunder grenades for grapeshot depending on the load you want.
Questions
BT'd?
CP?
Still getting use to the lingo....sorry

This post has been edited by Scath an Bhais: 09 October 2008 - 05:12 PM

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#9 User is offline   Flip 

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 07:35 PM

Sorry - Been playing RP for many years, the GSRP has been my bible for a long time :wacko:

As far as I've seen in RP - you can't launch grenades. You can be checked out to launch "Mortars" - but it has to go by the ultimate ref. Again its all in the GSRP.

CP - Command Bunker It's where all missions are called in from and the main check in point when you re-enter the game in Scenario. Most RP Scenario's are run from your CP - it's a gathering point.

BT's are "Barrel Tags". Was introduced to stop the point-blank shooting esp at night. IF you can get close enough to another player and tap them with your barrel - they are OUT. It's on the same deal as surrender - but a "BT" there is NO OPTION - the player tapped is out.

Now on to the Scenario stuff- :(

IF I had the ordinance (Nerf) - I was allowed to "Barrel Tag" my objective bunker - I gave the witness Ref the Nerf and was allowed to complete the Demo Mission; and saved the lowly 12 gram. Most games (the smart producers) have control over how many Nerfs are in the game. A good Demo with unlimited ammo will be un-stoppable :evil:

Taking out Helo's is quite tricky - you have to "hope" you have good ground-pounders keeping the infranty helpers down so you can get in the shot. Or... In my case I try for the covert suicide run and the BT. I've had Helo kills walk into me more times than I can remember - right place at the right time. Avenues of attack are easy.

With the right back-up Tanks are easy - my prob of late has been no players "hold-the-line". I get taken out by the tank support because every player close to me tinkles off cuz they see a tank. :rolleyes:

Cool thing about RP Scenario - I'm supposed to tell a Ref everytime I shoot at a tank. Refs are few and far between at some games but the Tankers are also Scenario players. I've never had a Tank argue with me that I got the hit or not. I won't cheat - neither will they.
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#10 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:26 AM

OK ok ok, one more thing iand i think my noobness will end....
GSRP? Oh god....

Anyway, i play outlaw, and in the history of my Gf's family, they only used a tank once (ATV)
I knew what the Barrel tap was, just didnt know BT was the same..... i think of it like a bayonet, or a but stroke....., also why i want to be "cool" and use my rubber knife, so if i have to i can keep my gun trained on someone else while i knife tap one guy. I only intend on carrying 3-4 M203 shells.

Thanks again.
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#11 User is offline   commando kyle 

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 01:41 PM

I guess you have most likely figured out what you want to do... but can you do it? Is that actually how you play, or does it just sound cool to you?

I only ask, because all I wanted to be was a sniper for the longest time, then found out I couldnt really sit still that long. And it sounds like you gotta have skill to do what you are wanting to do.

Just a thought. Know what you can do, and if it is possible and useful before you go searching for a cool name for it. Good luck man.
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#12 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 08:05 PM

View Postcommando kyle, on Oct 12 2008, 01:41 PM, said:

I guess you have most likely figured out what you want to do... but can you do it? Is that actually how you play, or does it just sound cool to you?

I only ask, because all I wanted to be was a sniper for the longest time, then found out I couldnt really sit still that long. And it sounds like you gotta have skill to do what you are wanting to do.

Just a thought. Know what you can do, and if it is possible and useful before you go searching for a cool name for it. Good luck man.

I definatly agree Captain.
I know i cant be a sniper, its the same reason you cant. But when it comes to doing this, i can do better, i have a tendancy to choke up or freeze when i meet somone at a corner, also somtimes i dont rush enough, i dont trust my skills to advance and give adequate supressing fire. Also my quickness is deploying my knife is sluggish at best.

Thank you for the questions, its definatly good to ask myself.

Also, just a side note, but i play with a bunch of stalker/snipers, and my gf's dad (who ex navy) said he could sit somwhere for a hour without moving, so im going to try and learn to just lay out in the maize field at my house for two hours with out being in "this is fun/paintball mode" so if i can wait 2 hours bored, then i should be able to wait 2 hours in "real" mode.
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#13 User is offline   Flip 

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 12:35 PM

OOPS - Thought I had linked it! :laugh:

General Scenario Rules of Play

I've reffed Woodsball/Outlaw for 10+ years - Players who sit and wait (for hours) for that one shot aren't called "Snipers" in my book - they are called "Campers" and that's NOT a good think to be called :) There's tons of reading out there about how to be a paintball-sniper so I won't go into that. For the most part I figure true paintball snipers have thier spot in Scenario style play but for regular games they really aren't that effective (Just my opinion).

To stop campers we put a time limit on our games. If we didn't and it was all new players the game would never end because NOBODY would move. We also had objectives - end flag stations, center flag, or single flag attack/defend. This forces players to move or loose every game. Most our games would run for no longer than 1/2 hour - plenty were only 20 min games - many were over in alot less time than that with agressive players.

Quote

Also my quickness is deploying my knife is sluggish at best.


Except for the "coolness factor" I wouldn't bother with a knife. You already have your marker in your hands - a BT is sooo much quicker! Plus a marker with a 14" barrel has a bit more reach than a hand-held knife. This is coming from experiance - I've been BT'n since the rule was made. The only reason to use the knife tactic would be in a large-game scenario style format when you want to "appear" to be un-armed. Some producers allow the "off-gun barrel-only tag" tactic and I've used it on occasion - as close to a knife as you can get but with a smart base security set-up you will normally get eliminated before you get too far. I beleive Viper still allows off-gun BT's... but I haven't been down to TX in quite a while.
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#14 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 12:43 PM

View PostFlip, on Oct 13 2008, 12:35 PM, said:

OOPS - Thought I had linked it! :rolleyes:

General Scenario Rules of Play

I've reffed Woodsball/Outlaw for 10+ years - Players who sit and wait (for hours) for that one shot aren't called "Snipers" in my book - they are called "Campers" and that's NOT a good think to be called :laugh: There's tons of reading out there about how to be a paintball-sniper so I won't go into that. For the most part I figure true paintball snipers have thier spot in Scenario style play but for regular games they really aren't that effective (Just my opinion).

To stop campers we put a time limit on our games. If we didn't and it was all new players the game would never end because NOBODY would move. We also had objectives - end flag stations, center flag, or single flag attack/defend. This forces players to move or loose every game. Most our games would run for no longer than 1/2 hour - plenty were only 20 min games - many were over in alot less time than that with agressive players.

Quote

Also my quickness is deploying my knife is sluggish at best.


Except for the "coolness factor" I wouldn't bother with a knife. You already have your marker in your hands - a BT is sooo much quicker! Plus a marker with a 14" barrel has a bit more reach than a hand-held knife. This is coming from experiance - I've been BT'n since the rule was made. The only reason to use the knife tactic would be in a large-game scenario style format when you want to "appear" to be un-armed. Some producers allow the "off-gun barrel-only tag" tactic and I've used it on occasion - as close to a knife as you can get but with a smart base security set-up you will normally get eliminated before you get too far. I beleive Viper still allows off-gun BT's... but I haven't been down to TX in quite a while.

Thanksfor the link.
Well, hesnotreallya camper,becausehecan and will move, especially if theres a time limit. But if wewere doing likesay an overnight, and weneeded to be quarding the MSR, he could do it without moving.
but yeah, i am more into opencombat...
thanks again
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#15 User is offline   Scath an Bhais 

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 01:22 PM

Wow, I just realized how horrible my last post was (sorry guys my home PC space bar blows)

Anyway so I got back to thinking about CQC/CD position. I've come to the realization that it doesn't have to be gun specific.
Just because its easier, ill list out which qualities of each current specops position the CQC/CD has....

Light rifleman-CQC/CD has got to be moving fast, being the CQC means "close quarters combat" he's either got to be the pointman, or the guy behind the pointman. (Bad example: on spec ops tactics guide http://www.specialop...ctics/index.asp when they talk about wedge formation, and when the pointman draws fire, the other guys go around the enemy and take 'em out, that would probable be a CQC/CD, but going for the barrel tap :() The pointman draws fire, but CQC doesn’t want that, he needs to get around and take out the shooter(s) or keep going to the OPFORs base, he does this fast. He needs to bunker, and get uncomfortable close and intimate with the OPFOR, and keep it that way until their gone.

Medium rifleman-Sorta does the "pointman dance" (reference to spec ops tactics guide), but its alot faster, and should hardly ever present himself as a target, even a poor one, so lets say he's behind a small wall, bunker, or tree, popping out from the side of the barrier he sweeps with his eyes, "slicing the pie" really tight coming out JUST enough to see a.) where he's going and b.) the area surrounding his optimal route. While moving from point to point, he checks his angles constantly, looking to both sides, and behind him (everyone should do that though), while still moving forward. If he becomes under fire and he already too far out, he lays down suppressive till he gets to his cover quickly.
Also, like a SABRE he should be able to do mostly any other position too


Heavy rifleman- Suppressive fire to the max, if there's not alot of cover, and CQC/CD needs to close distance, but doesn't have the time/doesn't want to flank. Using suppressive fire to keep the targets head down till the CQC (or any of his team mates) gets to a better position (one man leap frog). Also might employ a grenade or two, while yes grenades don't have a "cook" time in paintball. if your the enemy and your just out of range of a grenade but you see one go off where you were thinking about moving to get a better position, you might hold your position for just a little longer, just long enough for CQC to close the distance.

Heavy Gunner-not really any similarities unless you were awesome and carried a paint grenade launcher just for the extra firepower....

Sniper-no... not really but ghost flanker...sorta, like how a ghost flanker is ahead of his buddies, the CQC keeps pressing for the flag base, bunker, pillbox etc. so on his way he may have a better angle than his buddies on a target, and he'll take him, but that's not what he’s really there to do.

CO- nah not really, id say that he's pretty vital to the CO because, like when the tactics guide talks about reactive strategy, and sending out spotters, scouts whatever, CQC would kinda act like that, but never engage a force that big unless he was CQCing, but while he's moving up the field at an accelerated rate, he could spot what the enemy was doing, then radio back while he's moving, and reformulate his personal plan of attack while reporting.

Just a quick example of how a CQC should work, lets say he's awesome and has a under barrel paint grenade launcher, and the field he's playing on allows sabot rounds for the launcher, when he come across a pillbox or crack house or base etc. he would shoot the sabot into the pillbox (but not at a person since they are indirect fire weapons, the sabot would clear out the immediate area around the entrance, the CQC would be coming up right behind the sabot after it goes off. Catching the enemy off guard because the ones that didn’t get taken out by the sabot are probable hiding in better cover, not expecting a player coming right behind it.

As for moving with a squad movement, like mentioned before, he probable shouldn't be in the front, but once they reach his type of haven, he should get in the front and probable move ahead/around for a better attack. Like a "crack house", he should be the first one in. Also, if the team did not previously study a field or its possible buildings or the enemy base, the CQC should probable orchestrate with his team how to go in if the CO isn't available. So I guess he has some leadership abilities.

What does everyone think of this new info?



By the way, if you guys havent noticed, i think im ganna try to get this adopted by spec ops now. I know positions really dont matter, but its fun.

This post has been edited by Scath an Bhais: 23 October 2008 - 02:17 PM

O'Tuathaigh
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