Special Ops Paintball: Tacticool 6 : Top Sniper Competitions - Special Ops Paintball

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Tacticool 6 : Top Sniper Competitions Rate Topic: -----

#166 User is offline   reef geek 

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:07 PM

You seas to amaze me how much you can find reasons to get mad at me. No matter what I say there will be always some reason for you to get mad at. No compromise you say, well, what about when I said that we wont care if you think we aren't helpful on the field if admit we exist (in a non sarcastic way). So, on the second part you are saying all paint ball players are exactly the same and there are no differences?
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#167 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:08 PM

Tyger, you ougghta put up the long video- that sixty minute lecture you said you had. I need something to kill time with in the stock room at work when there's not a blessed thing for me to be doing.
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#168 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:15 PM

View Postreef geek, on 14 August 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

this guys response was interesting:

Tyger, ding ding, some one has responded against you.


I applaud this kid for putting up a video response... that was cool. But I'm a bit surprised no one responded to him here. So I will: Did anyone else hear him say that there are markers that can shoot a paintball 1,000 feet? Orly?!

And EW, I appreciate the extra stipulations. I agree, but even if I cranked my Geo up to 400fps (assuming it could get there, never tried) & let rip at 20+ bps there's a pretty good chance I would not hit a playing card at 400 feet in the less than 10 seconds it would take to empty my hopper. Of course, after re-reading the rules for the actual competition they don't say what the actual size of the targets are, could be those monster 2' x 3' playing cards. They also mention nothing regarding the chrono speed requirements for the markers, if they do I missed it. They do however mention a limit of 20 rounds per stage.
ger
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#169 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:22 PM

I know I've got a few crap guns in the house that are slated either for experimentation or AT tubes, I could take one or two of them and see how fast I can get them to shoot.

I know I can mod that tippmann to shoot in the 500s range, but it'd pretty much be single shot only, at that point. Gotta love 98s though, all kinds of crazy mess you can do to them with patience.
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#170 User is offline   Cuy'val Dar  

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:26 PM

View Postger, on 14 August 2011 - 11:15 PM, said:

View Postreef geek, on 14 August 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

this guys response was interesting:

Tyger, ding ding, some one has responded against you.


I applaud this kid for putting up a video response... that was cool. But I'm a bit surprised no one responded to him here. So I will: Did anyone else hear him say that there are markers that can shoot a paintball 1,000 feet? Orly?!

And EW, I appreciate the extra stipulations. I agree, but even if I cranked my Geo up to 400fps (assuming it could get there, never tried) & let rip at 20+ bps there's a pretty good chance I would not hit a playing card at 400 feet in the less than 10 seconds it would take to empty my hopper. Of course, after re-reading the rules for the actual competition they don't say what the actual size of the targets are, could be those monster 2' x 3' playing cards. They also mention nothing regarding the chrono speed requirements for the markers, if they do I missed it. They do however mention a limit of 20 rounds per stage.


I think he made a note retracting thar statement.
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#171 User is offline   IrishMack 

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:34 PM

He did make a note retracting the 1000 foot statement, saying that he realizes that it only actually makes them shoot accurately to like 500 feet...still false, but yea...so yes, someone did reply to Tyger, unfortunatly, the person who chose to do it sounded like a complete idiot
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#172 User is offline   TheLocalJackass 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 12:28 AM

Stop Calling it Sniping and call it "Stalking"
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#173 User is offline   Ethrealwolf 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:13 AM

Responding to the video.

0:45-ish. "players can definitely be trained in Camo, Fieldcraft, Infiltration and Observation"

Yes. yes they can. But how many of them ARE. There's a distinction- a VERY important one, between being trained in a subject, and learning it on your own. I can, for example, read everything I want about marine corps drill and ceremony, I can go the gym daily, and I can shoot thousands of rounds at a rifle range at 100, 300, and 500 meters, and meet the well-known qualification standards to be a US marine. Howver, if I did not get TRAINED on parris island by a drill instructor, I am not a marine, and would probably get my crap wrecked for claiming to be one.


1:40-ish

No. first strikes do not let you shoot out to 400 feet with a field legal marker. Hell, the COMPANY doesn't even claim that- They claim a 50% range increase over normal markers which (taking the furthest 'average' I've ever heard and saying 200 feet effective, you'd still end up with 300 feet, and going with the more common '50 or so meters', or 150 or so feet, you end up with 225.) Most unbiased (read: people with nothing to lose or gain by proving the claim true or false) say it dosen't add range, it adds effective range. Again, a VERY important distinction in those two little terms. it means that, at ranges I'd have switched to 'accuracy by volume' or, (more likely) continued to move up, someone with a first strike can make shots and expect them to break on things that aren't hard (so places other than lens, top of head, marker rig, or pods. This works both ways, for the purposes of the argument at hand. Yes, first strikes can engage with greater accuracy at range, but they can be engaged by area fire as well- they don't out and out outrange the people they're shooting at. (as an aside, under the ghillie bounce rule, I'd say both sides were equally likely to shoot the other out. assuming, of course, both were honest)

Similarly, the APEX (not so much the flatline) will fit on any marker. which, again, invalidates it as 'special equipment'

also: real cool there at about the three minute mark- Airtank, hopper, NO BBD, and not even any trigger discipline! ("it was unloaded!", yeah, right. treat every weapon as if it is loaded, ESPECIALLY if you cannot, right at that second, see into the breach to ascertain it isn't)

EDIT:

View PostTheLocalJackass, on 15 August 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

Stop Calling it Sniping and call it "Stalking"



Someone give this man a beer.

This post has been edited by Ethrealwolf: 15 August 2011 - 01:13 AM

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#174 User is offline   TheLocalJackass 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:20 AM

View PostEthrealwolf, on 15 August 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

Responding to the video.

0:45-ish. "players can definitely be trained in Camo, Fieldcraft, Infiltration and Observation"

Yes. yes they can. But how many of them ARE. There's a distinction- a VERY important one, between being trained in a subject, and learning it on your own. I can, for example, read everything I want about marine corps drill and ceremony, I can go the gym daily, and I can shoot thousands of rounds at a rifle range at 100, 300, and 500 meters, and meet the well-known qualification standards to be a US marine. Howver, if I did not get TRAINED on parris island by a drill instructor, I am not a marine, and would probably get my crap wrecked for claiming to be one.


1:40-ish

No. first strikes do not let you shoot out to 400 feet with a field legal marker. Hell, the COMPANY doesn't even claim that- They claim a 50% range increase over normal markers which (taking the furthest 'average' I've ever heard and saying 200 feet effective, you'd still end up with 300 feet, and going with the more common '50 or so meters', or 150 or so feet, you end up with 225.) Most unbiased (read: people with nothing to lose or gain by proving the claim true or false) say it dosen't add range, it adds effective range. Again, a VERY important distinction in those two little terms. it means that, at ranges I'd have switched to 'accuracy by volume' or, (more likely) continued to move up, someone with a first strike can make shots and expect them to break on things that aren't hard (so places other than lens, top of head, marker rig, or pods. This works both ways, for the purposes of the argument at hand. Yes, first strikes can engage with greater accuracy at range, but they can be engaged by area fire as well- they don't out and out outrange the people they're shooting at. (as an aside, under the ghillie bounce rule, I'd say both sides were equally likely to shoot the other out. assuming, of course, both were honest)

Similarly, the APEX (not so much the flatline) will fit on any marker. which, again, invalidates it as 'special equipment'

also: real cool there at about the three minute mark- Airtank, hopper, NO BBD, and not even any trigger discipline! ("it was unloaded!", yeah, right. treat every weapon as if it is loaded, ESPECIALLY if you cannot, right at that second, see into the breach to ascertain it isn't)

EDIT:

View PostTheLocalJackass, on 15 August 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

Stop Calling it Sniping and call it "Stalking"



Someone give this man a beer.


Thank you.
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#175 User is offline   Chill_balla 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 04:37 AM

No! This debate can't end! WE NEED ACTIVITY!
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#176 User is offline   FreeEnterprise 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 05:25 AM

View PostTyger, on 14 August 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

View PostFreeEnterprise, on 14 August 2011 - 08:01 AM, said:

And as I suspected, you really don't care what anyone else says...

You know... I just thought of this here.

Did you watch the original video?

It's about a sniper comp that I find unrealistic in paintball terms.

I even said in the video that the "paintball sniper" has nothing to do with "military sniping", a point parroted by an ACES person. I even said that if you have nothing to prove, go out and play.

Than you guys jumped all over me for attacking you personally, which I never did.

So, let me turn this around again, do you even actually care to see what I actually originally SAID in the video? Or are you, and your group, so hyper-sensitive that a pebble tossed your direction is enough to unleash the tactical nukes in retaliation?

-Tyger


Yes, I watched the original video. I find many aspects of that competition to be unrealistic based on my experience. But, if they want to do that, fine, why is it a problem and worthy of bashing?

I think it is pointless to play in a tiny field with rubber toys blown up all over the place and run and dive while shooting cases of paint. Do I go out and attack speedballers for their style of play?... Nope. More power to them, they are having fun, and spending money on the sport.


I went back and re-read the thread, and I see that your comments aren't as caustic as others, so I will separate you from them for a minute. Even though it is clear that you KNEW you would get this type of response... We all have seen it countless times, it is as predictable as hitting a hornets nest with a bat.


I don't have a "group". I am me, and I speak for only myself. I have an account with ACES but I have literally ONE post on their board from when it first started (trying to get eyeballs on my video's... we both know how youtube works).

So don't say "you guys" as I am me, and no one else.

I made my points very clearly. I WILL drop a video proving my "sniper" ability. But, that ability doesn't need a long wordy description, it will instead be video of my skills both in range shooting, and in concealed position sniping DURING paintball games... If someone wants to see how I feel about "snipers" they can read this thread, where I spent time covering my position.


Will that change the opinion of the people that say "snipers don't exist". I seriously doubt it, as there are always haters in the world. But, I did learn something from my test on Saturday. Typically I only shoot long range in games, (and I have been very effective over the years, as anyone who plays at my field can attest) but now I have made 2 video's that show maximum distance with an A-5 and an Apex 2 barrel. I KNOW that I can shoot with target accuracy at 350 feet.

But, that is my limit. I can't go over 350 feet, I had a few balls past, but I could not hit the 400 foot target shooting under 300 fps and regular paint.



My question is, if I wanted to hit someone in the head, I would need to be at least within 4 inches of the center of my target as the typical paintball mask is 8 inches across so the margin of error is +/- 4 inches from the center of the mask.

Now we all agree that if someone got "lucky" they might be able to shoot a HOPPER full of paint and make that hit... (if they had an Apex or flatline of course, since regular paintball guns won't shoot that far... hmm, so Apex DOES increase range...)

But, if someone were truly a "sniper". How many shots at a target would be reasonable to prove his ability at 350 feet? Since we all know that paint isn't very accurate, so taking into consideration the "errant" paintball.

How many shots to hit the target within 4 inches of dead center at 350 feet would be a "paintball sniper" shot?
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#177 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 07:14 AM

View Postreef geek, on 14 August 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

You seas to amaze me how much you can find reasons to get mad at me. No matter what I say there will be always some reason for you to get mad at.


Disagreement is not the same as anger. I'm not mad. I just said you were wrong and why.

As far as your comment, within the context of what a paintball player is (someone participating in the game of paintball), then yes all players are the same: we all play paintball. We all use different gear that we like more than others, we play on a wide range of fields based on what's available in our area and what we like, but at the end of the day every player's goal is identical: to mark their opponent with a paintball fired from their gun. That's it. No special this or that.
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#178 User is offline   ger 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 07:56 AM

@FE - according to the competitions website, they allow 20 rounds per stage... at 5 targets per stage that averages to 4 rounds per target. Of course, someone could manage to hit the 200' shot w/ 2 rounds & that would allow more rounds for further targets. However, you are talking about hitting a pie plate, not a playing card - again though, the comp rules don't specifically say what size the targets are. Hitting a pie plate in less than 5 shots at 350' is a solid shot that I would definitely give a thumbs up to, one I'm certain I couldn't make because I don't own an Apex - but that's not the point of my disbelief. The premise of this competition is what I have been questioning - the hitting of small (assumed) targets at crazy ranges in impossible amounts of time.

Keep in mind, I believe in the "Sniper" role, but no more than I believe in the "Dagger", "Hammer", "Broadsword" etc... just a means of identifying a playing style. In my mind, the paintball skills of one don't always differ from the other, just that style of play. Again, a player w/ more than a couple solid years of experience is going to be good at all the positions & have a broad range of skills & experiences that make him good at those positions - unless said player has only ever played 1 vs. 1 w/ his brother on the back 40 for all 10 years of his experience. Don't walk up to us before the start horn & tell us your better at hitting targets 300' away because you're a Sniper, tell me you're better because you have an Apex & have practiced... then show me on the field - that I'll believe. At the same time, as I stated earlier, don't be "that guy" who runs 500' in the wrong direction when we are playing a game of centerflag, make 300' shots all you want you're no good to me when I'm 30' from the flag.

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This post has been edited by ger: 15 August 2011 - 08:00 AM

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#179 User is offline   reef geek 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:29 AM

Thalion, using a sarcastic tone usually means that the person is mad or about to be. Since no one seems to be making progress in this debate, we should just leave it. There's no point to arguing an unending debate. The who point of a debate like this is to come to a conclusion that every one, or at least most, can agree on. This doesn't seem to be happening since no one is willing to budge no mater what pice of evidence is put forth. Until some one can make progress or some one is willing to compromise, i'm just going to leave it. There's no point to this "war". Paint ball is a game, I do it for fun; if people can't admit that the playing style exist, then they have no right to use it and they loose out. Peace, have fun those who choose to stay in this unending battle. Once you guys have reached a logical conclusion or some one is willing to compromise, let me know.
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#180 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 12:07 PM

View Postreef geek, on 15 August 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

Thalion, using a sarcastic tone usually means that the person is mad or about to be.


Not really. Some people just gravitate more towards sarcasm and satire.

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Since no one seems to be making progress in this debate, we should just leave it. There's no point to arguing an unending debate.


If you want to leave the discussion, be my guest. That's your call, and nobody is making you stay or participate.

One thing that was good about this whole thread is a lot of the psyche behind a lot of the people who call themselves "snipers" came out (don't tell me again you don't want anything extra, just go back and re-read your posts and mine.)

Removing the "sniper" word out of it entirely, because after all, "it's not about the title," we have:

Side A: "We're different from everyone else, so we must be special and have our own names and be respected as different!"

Side B: "You're no different than anyone else on the field. You have a marker that shoots as far and accurate as anyone else (or slight modifications for FS users). You play paintball, and try to shoot the other team. You're the same as the rest of us. Now quit telling me how special and different you are and go prove your personal merits on the paintball field (if you can) rather than on a title you made up for yourself."

Really, that's the entire discussion, made simple. One side wants to be "special," and the other points out that's not relevant.

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The who point of a debate like this is to come to a conclusion that every one, or at least most, can agree on.


The point of a debate is to have two (or more) opposing sides present arguments for why they are right, or at least more right than the other views. It gets it out in the public forum, and ultimately the point isn't to settle an issue, but to provide a means for the outsider to see the arguments and make an informed choice about who is right. Sort of like how politics is supposed to work (supposed to, not how it really works)

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Until some one can make progress or some one is willing to compromise, i'm just going to leave it. There's no point to this "war".


Actually, I feel as if I have made progress. I now understand what motivates the "sniper crowd" to call themselves something they are not. Before I just thought "what's the point?" but now I get it. I explained it earlier in this post with my ultra-simple discussion. The so-called "snipers" are side A.

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Paint ball is a game, I do it for fun; if people can't admit that the playing style exist, then they have no right to use it and they loose out.


I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything by not being a part of the "look I'm special" crowd. Have fun trying tell people how special you are, but be ready to try and back it up with results on the field.

As far as sneaking around, any paintball player can do that. I even do that. It's not sniping, I am not a sniper; it's just stealth and fieldcraft and knowing how and where to move.

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Once you guys have reached a logical conclusion or some one is willing to compromise, let me know.


Consider this post my logical conclusion of what drives this discussion.
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