Special Ops Paintball: Just My Opinion 4 "Dumbing it Down" - Special Ops Paintball

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Just My Opinion 4 "Dumbing it Down" ok, so I mis-spoke... Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:42 AM



So, in a semi-medication haze, I made a vid even though I said I wasn't going to. Hopefully, this makes sense.

If not, blame it on the "damitol".
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#2 User is offline   Thalion 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:05 AM

While the rant makes sense, it's not just in paintball.

Look at anything, quite literally anything, in modern society. It's getting dumb-downed.

Here's some examples:

Politics - In the old days, you had candidates arguing solutions as well as (near elections anyway) why they were the man for the job. People actually had debates that weren't pre-scripted, and there was no blanket party-wide answer. Today, you only see left/right, Democrat/Republican being pushed as the only "choice" - as if every single Democrat or every single Republican did exactly the same thing. Rather than make any deliberate argument for their preferred solution to a given problem, today it's all about "he's bad! I'm good! I'll do ... < insert some abstract platitude like 'make the rich pay their fair share' (how do you define rich, and what is this 'fair' share?) or 'fix the education system' (great, how?), 'make America/my state great again' (again, how?), etc. > "

Education - Yeah.... not going there. That was enough said.

Film Entertainment - Used to be a lot more story, a lot of films that test your critical thinking skills with the dilemmas they depicted, etc. Now, a "movie" can be just a bunch of random special effects with minimal plot, lots of violence, and no coherence at all (the other stereotypical films are a mad collection of poorly implemented and unfunny jokes, a ridiculous amount of sexual content which really serves no purpose, etc). To be fair, there's still now and then some pretty good movies that try to employ your critical thinking skill or send a message worth considering the merits of, but they are few and far between. You'll notice that those few often do well, which is perhaps a slight indicator that not all our population is ready to be consigned to entire stupidity.

Games - Games used to have strategy, like chess, checkers, or even more recent board games like Risk. Even some video games/electronic games have strategy aspects. Today, they're not nearly as common, replaced by the "run and gun like a madman Halo-like" games. Again, like films, there's exceptions to the general rule.


It's not just paintball. Paintball is just one of the more recent victims of the "instant gratification, no work, and complete laziness" mindset.

Or, simply put - People are getting dumber.
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#3 User is offline   D.T.A.G.CO 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:00 AM

My Response and Rant;

I agree with you on this Tyger. Kids of today are LAZY for the most part. It seems they "EXPECT" everything and with this type of mentality the future doesn't look promising and the blame is all on the parents of today. I really have a hard time realizing that there isn't that much of a generation gap, and things have changed so much it is just plain SAD!

Paintball is a victim of the teen, crybaby, reset button generation. Paintball was started to promote team work, that means to work together as a team and heighten the skills of the player's by strategical maneuvers against the opponents to win the game. It also seems as if the 30 something group is also falling into this category.

I see where the rec-player doesn't have the "REC" anymore. More player are trying new things and walking on the fine line advantage over the REF's by calling out to them to often to check a player for the hit, just to find them or to continue fire while the ref is in the way of the other player and then while the ref is in the way checking the checked player gets shot out. To me this is just another way of cheating, bringing the sport to a low.

Players that have to ask "Red or Blue" should be shot. Maybe it isn't so ethical to just shoot, but when in doubt shoot! I have as most have been shot out by friendly fire on many occasion, it happens, just part of the game. Yes it is aggravating but what can you do when the younger players don't know how team work works. They all need to learn to think but don't forget they are just kids and they don't think for the most part.

So in closing if you want to play this game learn to play as a team and think about the strategy of what is the best way of winning by playing a "HONEST & FAIR GAME" Don't try to "WALK THE LINE" People have good memories and will remember you for it no matter how you play.
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#4 User is offline   D.B.D 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:29 AM

I agree with this rant and agree with D.T.A.G, paintball is a major factor of teamwork, kids are going out there just to shoot and get as many kills as possible. I'm glad you posted this Tyger.

Just yesterday I was playing paintball and it was a game of Capture the Flag, and I told my team that it isn't about how the guy on the other team is shooting 24bps, or if they had one more player than us, we were going to work as a team and be sneaky about it. We didn't even eliminate everyone on the other team, we snuck in and took the flag and got back with only a few shots fired.

What I'm saying is this wasn't really a rant, but a good point.
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#5 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:38 AM

View PostThalion, on 21 July 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:

Film Entertainment - Used to be a lot more story, a lot of films that test your critical thinking skills with the dilemmas they depicted, etc. Now, a "movie" can be just a bunch of random special effects with minimal plot...


I wonder if I can find it again? There's a great show that was put on youtube that described this. In it, a few film critics discussed why movies like "The Deer Hunter" or "Citizen Kane" could never be made today. And the basic response was no. Movies with "sad" endings, regardless of how well made, won't fly in modern Hollywood. The original "Rocky" wouldn't be made either, the good guy doesn't win at the end. Heck, it's commonly agreed that remakes are easier. Avatar was CG Pocahontas, ya know.

Lowest common denominator. And people wonder why I don't watch most TV or movies anymore...

View PostD.T.A.G.CO, on 21 July 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

Paintball is a victim of the teen, crybaby, reset button generation. Paintball was started to promote team work, that means to work together as a team and heighten the skills of the player's by strategical maneuvers against the opponents to win the game. It also seems as if the 30 something group is also falling into this category.


I'm on the cusp of "Generation X", the so-called generation of pathos. "Yeah, whatever, let's get a pizza." Now my generation is having the kids of this generation, and it's kinda scary. I've seen kids walk off the field because "There's no way we can win, I'm just gonna quit now." Funny thing was we WON that game without him...

Thing is, not EVERYONE is like this. I've seen some brilliant kids out there. I've also been known to have days where I just wanna shoot people too. Put it on autopilot and shoot can be fun sometimes, but not all the time.

I think I need more meds.

-Tyger
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#6 User is offline   Thumper113 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:43 AM

Tyger, im sure you remember the itch weeds at fox paintball...

yea well.. i crawled through one during a game and did not realize it... soon as my arms started turning red and itching, i started yelling plenty of colorful words and i got shot like 6 times cause i gave myself out..

i know il try something again but we will see... wish you were coming to Training Day but i guess your knee just sealed that envelope.

ohhh i guess i will have to be the lone crazy sneaky bastard this time..
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#7 User is offline   D.T.A.G.CO 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:00 PM

View PostTyger, on 21 July 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

View PostThalion, on 21 July 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:

Film Entertainment - Used to be a lot more story, a lot of films that test your critical thinking skills with the dilemmas they depicted, etc. Now, a "movie" can be just a bunch of random special effects with minimal plot...


I wonder if I can find it again? There's a great show that was put on youtube that described this. In it, a few film critics discussed why movies like "The Deer Hunter" or "Citizen Kane" could never be made today. And the basic response was no. Movies with "sad" endings, regardless of how well made, won't fly in modern Hollywood. The original "Rocky" wouldn't be made either, the good guy doesn't win at the end. Heck, it's commonly agreed that remakes are easier. Avatar was CG Pocahontas, ya know.

Lowest common denominator. And people wonder why I don't watch most TV or movies anymore...

View PostD.T.A.G.CO, on 21 July 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

Paintball is a victim of the teen, crybaby, reset button generation. Paintball was started to promote team work, that means to work together as a team and heighten the skills of the player's by strategical maneuvers against the opponents to win the game. It also seems as if the 30 something group is also falling into this category.


I'm on the cusp of "Generation X", the so-called generation of pathos. "Yeah, whatever, let's get a pizza." Now my generation is having the kids of this generation, and it's kinda scary. I've seen kids walk off the field because "There's no way we can win, I'm just gonna quit now." Funny thing was we WON that game without him...

Thing is, not EVERYONE is like this. I've seen some brilliant kids out there. I've also been known to have days where I just wanna shoot people too. Put it on autopilot and shoot can be fun sometimes, but not all the time.

I think I need more meds.

-Tyger


Agreed there are some very good young player out there that are an exception to the rule and there are some mommy gives me everything good players that have a higher than mighty bad attitude that seems to ruin it for the rest and that takes the fun out of it for them. I have personally watched one of these type players intimidate the younger ref's and players into things that is not right just because of his attitude. For ex. in a previous video you posted it touched base on 1st impressions, this kid falls into it HEAD FIRST and in ankle deep in it like a yard dart...

Off topic but here is a ??? When do you all consider a noob no longer a noob? After the 1st few games? After several weeks of play? or by SKILL and the way they play?
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#8 User is offline   Eskimo 

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:57 PM

A noob stops being a noob once they show Understanding on the concept of the game.

A noob stands completely out of a bunker. Gets hit, looks back, nect time he/she only leans out a little bit. ( check mark on "Not noob" )

A newbie stops being a newbie once they decide it's time I play like I know how to.
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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:15 PM

Love your rants Tyger. And heaven forbid you be sneaky. It seems to be a crime these days.
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#10 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 07:34 AM

View PostD.T.A.G.CO, on 21 July 2010 - 03:00 PM, said:

Agreed there are some very good young player out there that are an exception to the rule and there are some mommy gives me everything good players that have a higher than mighty bad attitude that seems to ruin it for the rest and that takes the fun out of it for them. I have personally watched one of these type players intimidate the younger ref's and players into things that is not right just because of his attitude. For ex. in a previous video you posted it touched base on 1st impressions, this kid falls into it HEAD FIRST and in ankle deep in it like a yard dart...

Off topic but here is a ??? When do you all consider a noob no longer a noob? After the 1st few games? After several weeks of play? or by SKILL and the way they play?


Unfortunately, I have only grown up in this ME generation. However, for a while, the person who taught us to play was one of the dads who absolutely dominated the field. All the kids who learned from this guy became good very quick, and I attribute that to his emphasis on strategy in everything we did. We had to think "how will this benefit our team" every time we decided to take an action. If the answer was "not at all," then we wouldn't use that maneuver.

I can say with pride that all of my teammates pay for their own gear, and we love to play using every legal advantage we can. We crawl, sneak and flank, but i believe the only reason we learned these lessons is from someone outside of the ME generation's bubble.
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#11 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:28 PM

View PostInvictusone, on 22 July 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:

We crawl, sneak and flank, but i believe the only reason we learned these lessons is from someone outside of the ME generation's bubble.

this is one of the largest problems with paintball, not enough people stick around and graduate from player to coach role. So new players re-invent the wheel over and over, and no progress is made. The way to learn is to build from knowledge of the past, and you get that from coaches. With the 3-5 year plan going on, that never really happens.

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#12 User is offline   Mike68 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 01:12 PM

Veterans of any single thing in the World always think said thing is being dumbed down as it progresses.

WWII vets thought the military was "dumbed down," in Vietnam.

Vietnam vets think the military is "dumbed down," now.

I'm sure Revolutionary War vets shook their heads at the "dumbed down," armies of the Civil War.



Point being, everyone thinks everything is being dumbed down. And you know why?

Because things ARE being changed, molded, and streamlined as they progress. But "dumbed down?" Hardly.


On the scenerio paintball field, I can drive a tank around if I so choose to. Coversely, I can sneak around with a launcher and hunt tanks all day long. Could I have done this years ago? Maybe. Would it have been seen as strange and outlandish? Definitely.


There has never been more variety on the paintball field. If I want to, I can rip 15 bps, I can dual wield pistols, I can play stock class, I can throw grenades (even if they hardly ever work), I can curve paint around corners with an Apex barrel. Hell, I can do just about anything. Money is my only limitation.

Anything that has ever endured has been seen as "dumbed down." Did stickshift car owners shake their heads at the invention of automatic transmission? Definitely. Does that mean you can't still drive stickshifts? Hell no.

Paintball is the same way. Sure it has become immensely popular, sure all the new kids are getting into it, and sure it has more clearly defined rules. Was it more experimental in the days where it was a fringe sport and there weren't clearly defined rules for it? Yes. Are you going to be getting that same experience with a group of walkons at a cheap, indoor field? Probably not. Is that feeling of old impossible to get back today? Not at all.

This post has been edited by Mike68: 22 July 2010 - 01:17 PM

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#13 User is offline   Invictusone 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:09 PM

View PostMike68, on 22 July 2010 - 04:12 PM, said:

Veterans of any single thing in the World always think said thing is being dumbed down as it progresses.

WWII vets thought the military was "dumbed down," in Vietnam.

Vietnam vets think the military is "dumbed down," now.

I'm sure Revolutionary War vets shook their heads at the "dumbed down," armies of the Civil War.



Point being, everyone thinks everything is being dumbed down. And you know why?

Because things ARE being changed, molded, and streamlined as they progress. But "dumbed down?" Hardly.


On the scenerio paintball field, I can drive a tank around if I so choose to. Coversely, I can sneak around with a launcher and hunt tanks all day long. Could I have done this years ago? Maybe. Would it have been seen as strange and outlandish? Definitely.


There has never been more variety on the paintball field. If I want to, I can rip 15 bps, I can dual wield pistols, I can play stock class, I can throw grenades (even if they hardly ever work), I can curve paint around corners with an Apex barrel. Hell, I can do just about anything. Money is my only limitation.

Anything that has ever endured has been seen as "dumbed down." Did stickshift car owners shake their heads at the invention of automatic transmission? Definitely. Does that mean you can't still drive stickshifts? Hell no.

Paintball is the same way. Sure it has become immensely popular, sure all the new kids are getting into it, and sure it has more clearly defined rules. Was it more experimental in the days where it was a fringe sport and there weren't clearly defined rules for it? Yes. Are you going to be getting that same experience with a group of walkons at a cheap, indoor field? Probably not. Is that feeling of old impossible to get back today? Not at all.


While progress is both inevitable and desirable, the problem is that people are getting mad for simple flanks, crawls and being sneaky.

The argument isnt that the new things in paintball are harming it, its the new mentality that strategy beyond move and shoot is dishonorable,
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#14 User is offline   Mike68 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:38 PM

Honestly I've never been told by anyone that it's wrong to walk the tape, pretend to be on their team, or be sneaky (but rule obeying) in general.

I believe what happened to Tyger is an isolated incident, and definitely not indicative of a trend in paintball.

People get mad about everything. I had a guy bonus ball me 5+ times because I accidentally shot him twice, once. I've had a kid try to explain to me why I should be out because "If that grenade had gone off, it would've totally gotten you." Are these indicative of trends in the sport? I certainly hope not.

This post has been edited by Mike68: 22 July 2010 - 05:39 PM

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#15 User is offline   Tyger 

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:00 PM

View PostMike68, on 22 July 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

There has never been more variety on the paintball field. If I want to, I can rip 15 bps, I can dual wield pistols, I can play stock class, I can throw grenades (even if they hardly ever work), I can curve paint around corners with an Apex barrel. Hell, I can do just about anything. Money is my only limitation.


AHH! There we go.

People buy stuff and buy stuff for paintball. It's a gear sport, we know this. But then they expect the gear to make them better, like buying powerups in video games. "I got the new barrel (+1), a new board (+3) in my e-gun (+5) and then got a harness that holds 8 pods (+2 per pod)..." NO! NO NO NO!

That mentality is rampant! That simply buying gear makes one "better", and anyone who does well without the gear is somehow dishonest. And the idea I've seen is "I'll go buy the best *whatever* and PWN!!!!" It's somewhat humorous, and somewhat sad when you try to help kids an they refuse. "NO! I got this! My gun was just not set right last game!"

View PostMike68, on 22 July 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

I believe what happened to Tyger is an isolated incident, and definitely not indicative of a trend in paintball.


Based on what I'm reading in the responses to the video? It's not isolated. Someone reported being sat out a game for doing the old-school "12 gram hiss". I may show that in a video next Monday, if I have time to film.
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