Special Ops Paintball: Does the two party system really work??? - Special Ops Paintball

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Does the two party system really work??? or do we need more "factions"? Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   I.K.E. 

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 03:09 PM

Yeah well....I don't see our system as being particularly democratic. A true democracy would be extremely complicated, with each person voting on each issue. We were actually founded as a democratic republic, with representatives.

Besides, most of the people in this country who are eligible to vote, don't. That in and of itself is a demonstration of how our system has broken down somewhat. We have taken for granted our right to vote, and most of our voices are silenced. Functional democracy, by the people and for the people, requires the people to get involved. Apathy is destroying our system of government.
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#17 User is offline   The Stuntman 

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 09:22 PM

Quote

Yeah well....I don't see our system as being particularly democratic. A true democracy would be extremely complicated, with each person voting on each issue. We were actually founded as a democratic republic, with representatives.

True...
Pure Democracy simply cannot function beyond a certain sized electorate. The Classic form as practiced by ancient Athens had limitations, with large classes of the population that were not considered citizens & so not given a vote.
Reprsentative Democracy offers a compromise between the average citizen having no power at all & too much power for society to be funtional. Not perfect, but suprisingly stable & self-correcting.
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#18 User is offline   MaDuce 

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 11:35 PM

View PostCesh, on Aug 3 2008, 02:13 PM, said:

One thing to remember: Democracy is the gouvernment of the average. It isn't the best system at all, because the average is a dumb rotten degenerated pile of idiocy. Have you ever looked around yourself and realized how many stupid people are running around? Would you wnat to be controlled by their lack of intelligence? Guess what, you are. Democracy isn't the best system, it just the system which works better then the rest. In my books, a controlled elite running the country, without parties, just simple interest groups, would serve any country better. Below a certain standard, voting is bad for any country. That's a commonly recognized, yet ignored fact. Dumb people still want rights, even if they don't understand nor use them.

Anarchy doesn't work. And a system which takes the opinions of morons into account borders to anarchy. Sorry for that. Maybe I am too misanthropic.


"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." - Winston Churhill.

This is why America is not a democracy. True democracy was called "mob rule" by the founders of America. By "elite," I assume you mean the most successful, the most intelligent people running things. In that case, it would be natural for them to look out for the other successful, intelligent people. The idiots and 'stupids' need someone to look out for their rights and interests too...unless you want to consider them less than worthy of such things.

But you are right in that for a democracy to work at its best, you must have an alert populace who have a genuine interest in their government and the good of their country.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson

As for "simple special-interest groups," well special-interest groups are never simple. They hide from those who's interests they don't represent and deceive and manipulate to insert their agenda in the government. They tend to multiply and grow in their influence, which in the end, serves no one.
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#19 User is offline   thebostinian 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:01 AM

In my mind, partisan politics is absolutely horrible...but the fact remains that the two-party system ain't going anywhere. The parties have too much money, and if we were to go with a whole bunch of small parties...well, I hate to be "that guy", but look at Germany in the 1930s. You all know where I'm going with this.

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#20 User is offline   Terriss 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:22 AM

There's hundreds of political parties out there.

http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

Theres just a portion of them. Democratic, Republican, Liberal, Reactionary, Conservative, Green...these are just the major ones that get the most support. There's a few more that aren't on that list, one being the one that I belong to: The Centrist Party. Centrists look at a problem, decide the best solution, and vote accordingly.

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#21 User is offline   SabreUK 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:16 AM

Over here, the 3 big ones are Labour, Liberal Democrats, and Conservatives. None of them offer what I think this country needs in a realistic form. Conservatives are the closest to it, but they seem too good to be true (honest politician being an oxymoron and all :P ).



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#22 User is offline   SabreUK 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:20 AM

View PostI.K.E., on Aug 3 2008, 11:09 PM, said:

Yeah well....I don't see our system as being particularly democratic. A true democracy would be extremely complicated, with each person voting on each issue. We were actually founded as a democratic republic, with representatives.


To be honest, the USA's "Democracy" reminds me more of a wide scale Monarchy, only rich people have a chance of getting presidency if we're realistic.

EDIT: oops sory for the double post. ^-^

This post has been edited by SabreUK: 04 August 2008 - 10:20 AM




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#23 User is offline   Terriss 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:30 AM

The reason America is not a true democracy is because back in the olden days, it would be difficult as hell to get everyone to travel to one location and physically vote. However with advanced computer system and the series of tube that we call the internets, I think that a true democracy is possible in America.

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#24 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:24 AM

View PostSabreUK, on Aug 4 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

View PostI.K.E., on Aug 3 2008, 11:09 PM, said:

Yeah well....I don't see our system as being particularly democratic. A true democracy would be extremely complicated, with each person voting on each issue. We were actually founded as a democratic republic, with representatives.


To be honest, the USA's "Democracy" reminds me more of a wide scale Monarchy, only rich people have a chance of getting presidency if we're realistic.

EDIT: oops sory for the double post. ^-^


Says the country which still says "God save the Queen". :rolleyes:

I see your point thought. I am interested in a political career, and I think I have a pretty good plan to get there. Obviously a lot of things would have to go right, but who knows?
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#25 User is offline   slinkyaroo 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:39 AM

I'm Canadian so some of this may be wrong.

You guys vote directly for your new president not the party. You can have independents running for president, ie Ross Perot. This still suggests that the power may be distributed although you only have two major parties.


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#26 User is offline   Ashrak 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:42 AM

Very true. If America so chose, we could vote for any candidate who nominated themselves for the Presidential Race. The issue is funds, and the message not resonating with the American public. For example, I don't think enough Americans are familiar enough with the policy of Federalism to vote for a candidate who would run on the platform. This is where funds come in; so much money is controll by the RNC and DNC than an Independent of any stripe has trouble competing. Still, I think America does it best when it comes to a system of government; we do have the Constitution after all. I would rather live in a Democratic Republic then any other form.
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#27 User is offline   Terriss 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 01:57 PM

View Postslinkyaroo, on Aug 4 2008, 11:39 AM, said:

You guys vote directly for your new president not the party.


Nope. I know you're Canadian so you don't know, but I'm just using your statement, because its clear.

When Americans vote for a president, they're really just filling an opinion poll. The Electoral College votes for the President. The Electoral College is a group of people (one representing each state) who are delegated a number of votes according to the population of their state. They are given the total number of votes in their state for each candidate. Now the Electoral Voter is told by the people to vote for one person, but if they choose they may vote for someone else.

The most recent example of this is the Florida Electoral Voter in the 2000 Election. However it has happened before. In the Election of 1876, Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden ran against each other. Tilden received the majority of popular votes (votes from the people), however Hayes received more electoral votes. Hayes became president.

The founding fathers did this because:
A. Its like I've said, it would be difficult to gather everyone together.
B. They did not believe the common man was intelligent enough to decide the fate of a nation.

Sad but true. :dodgy:

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